# Giving alcohol to the chronically alcoholic homeless. Good idea or not? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [January 5, 2006, 4:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/giving-alcohol-to-the-chronically-alcoholic-homeless-good-idea-or-not/338582 "2006-01-05T16:22:43Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 15\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![astro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9dc877/32.png) [@astro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astro)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2006, 4:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/giving-alcohol-to-the-chronically-alcoholic-homeless-good-idea-or-not/338582/1 "2006-01-05T16:22:43Z")
Per the story below, while it’s “safer” it does give me pause, because it essentially (possibly quite realistically) concludes that these people will never be cured and saf(er) maintenance of their addiction is the best real world solution. Is it really good social policy to do this? [Study toasts free drinks for homeless alcoholics](http://www.breitbart.com/news/2006/01/05/060105050518.j5hs7mnr.html) > [@](#): > > Free drinks may improve the health and lives of homeless alcoholics and reduce their run-ins with police, according to a study published in the Canadian Medical Association Journal. > > Seventeen chronic alcoholics who drank upwards of 46 glasses a day over the past 35 years, including cheap substitutes such as mouthwash that often led to unconsciousness, were offered a glass of wine or sherry each hour, from 7:00 am to 10:00 pm at an Ottawa shelter over five to 24 months. > > Most of the fifteen men and two women, with an average age of 51 years, had tried detox programs and abstention, but were unable to maintain sobriety. > > “These are people you and I would pass on the street totally inebriated, who had drunk huge amounts,” said Jeff Turnbull, one of the authors of the study. > > Three quit, three died of alcohol-related disease before the end of the study, but 11 others reported “a markedly decreased consumption of beverage and non-beverage alcohol, and most reported improved sleep, hygiene, nutrition and health,” according to the authors of the study. > > More than half of the capital city’s 1,000 homeless people abuse alcohol. They typically suffer increased health problems, require emergency services and have frequent contact with police. > > The likelihood of their rehabilitation is low because of psychiatric illness, poor social support, lack of stable housing, years of addiction or they simply refuse treatment. > > Participants in this study, however, reported fewer hospital visits, down from an average 13.5 to eight per month, while encounters with police fell from 18.1 to 8.8. The related savings per person for these services was 445 Canadian dollars (387 US) per month. > > The average cost to administer the program per person was 771 Canadian dollars (670 US) per month. > > “Once the craziness of their alcoholism is under control, their wasted lives on the street turned around, they’re interesting people and all that destructive behavior is behind them,” Turnbull said. > > “They’ll never be fully integrated into society, but they’ll be less of a drain and even contributors.” ---
**Author:** ![II\_Gyan\_II](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/bbe5ce/32.png) [@II\_Gyan\_II](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/II_Gyan_II)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2006, 4:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/giving-alcohol-to-the-chronically-alcoholic-homeless-good-idea-or-not/338582/2 "2006-01-05T16:27:42Z")
This goes one step further: [75 hard-core alcoholics to be offered apartments](http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/localnews/2002684566_eastlake15m.html). ---
**Author:** ![Maastricht](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a88e57/32.png) [@Maastricht](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Maastricht)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2006, 4:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/giving-alcohol-to-the-chronically-alcoholic-homeless-good-idea-or-not/338582/3 "2006-01-05T16:58:28Z")
It has been accepted practice in the Netherlands for almost two decades now to give heroin addicts free methadon. The same idea as the OP, and apparently, it works. Don’t you have that in England and the USA? I also saw a recent documentary on TV about a Dutch halfway house/old folks home for aging heroine junkies. ---
**Author:** ![II\_Gyan\_II](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/bbe5ce/32.png) [@II\_Gyan\_II](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/II_Gyan_II)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2006, 5:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/giving-alcohol-to-the-chronically-alcoholic-homeless-good-idea-or-not/338582/4 "2006-01-05T17:03:05Z")
> [@Maastricht](#): > > It has been accepted practice in the Netherlands for almost two decades now to give heroin addicts free methadon. There’s also heroin maintenance in UK, Spain, Netherlands and possibly Switzerland. But a daily regimen of regular alcohol, I believe, is more detrimental to functioning than opiates. ---
**Author:** ![Maastricht](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a88e57/32.png) [@Maastricht](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Maastricht)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2006, 5:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/giving-alcohol-to-the-chronically-alcoholic-homeless-good-idea-or-not/338582/5 "2006-01-05T17:08:51Z")
True. ---
**Author:** ![Tevildo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9bd4f/32.png) [@Tevildo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tevildo)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2006, 7:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/giving-alcohol-to-the-chronically-alcoholic-homeless-good-idea-or-not/338582/6 "2006-01-05T19:01:54Z")
Well, what are the alternatives? Give them money? They’ll spend it on drink. Give them all memberships of the Betty Ford/Priory/Other Appropriate National Clinic? Too expensive, especially considering there are other more urgent healthcare needs. Leave them as they are? At least with free booze, they’ll be happy rather than sad. ---
**Author:** ![Stentor\_2.5](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bc8723/32.png) [@Stentor\_2.5](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stentor_2.5)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2006, 7:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/giving-alcohol-to-the-chronically-alcoholic-homeless-good-idea-or-not/338582/7 "2006-01-05T19:47:49Z")
> [@](#): > > Participants in this study, however, reported fewer hospital visits, down from an average 13.5 to eight per month, while encounters with police fell from 18.1 to 8.8. The related savings per person for these services was 445 Canadian dollars (387 US) per month. > > The average cost to administer the program per person was 771 Canadian dollars (670 US) per month So it’s more expensive, and extremely controversial. Even a hardened pragmatic like myself has a hard time seeing the benefit of this program. ---
**Author:** ![II\_Gyan\_II](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/bbe5ce/32.png) [@II\_Gyan\_II](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/II_Gyan_II)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2006, 8:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/giving-alcohol-to-the-chronically-alcoholic-homeless-good-idea-or-not/338582/8 "2006-01-05T20:27:08Z")
> [@Stentor 2.5](#): > > So it’s more expensive Maybe the marginal benefit of saving hospital resources on 5.5 visits per month (in terms of other people getting help) and 10 police encounters per month is worth Can $326. ---
**Author:** ![Ensign\_Edison](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7ab992/32.png) [@Ensign\_Edison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ensign_Edison)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2006, 9:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/giving-alcohol-to-the-chronically-alcoholic-homeless-good-idea-or-not/338582/9 "2006-01-05T21:07:50Z")
I’m all for it. I also give whatever change I have to anyone who asks for it no matter what. I’m not a street social worker, and I dislike that attitude - “Oh, they’ll just use it for booze/crack/a big greasy cheeseburger”. Well, I don’t know, I wouldn’t like it if my boss was all up in my budget, telling me she’s not going to pay me this week because she knows I’ll just use the money for video games. I can spare it, so they can have it. I hope they do eek a little harmless joy out of the world in whatever time they have left to do so. It doesn’t hurt me one bit if they do. I also think that a society which decides to care for these people rather than just ignoring them, or disposing of them, is one which has a healthy amount of compassion. To me, it’s a simple matter of human kindness. It’s nasty to kick people when they’re down, and it’s sensible to recognize when a person is too far gone to be a useful member of society. It’s also cost effective. And aren’t the jails crowded enough from the War on Drugs? ---
**Author:** ![Ensign\_Edison](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7ab992/32.png) [@Ensign\_Edison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ensign_Edison)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2006, 9:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/giving-alcohol-to-the-chronically-alcoholic-homeless-good-idea-or-not/338582/10 "2006-01-05T21:09:29Z")
“Eke out”, I meant. ---
**Author:** ![joyfool](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/df788c/32.png) [@joyfool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/joyfool)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2006, 9:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/giving-alcohol-to-the-chronically-alcoholic-homeless-good-idea-or-not/338582/11 "2006-01-05T21:26:52Z")
Very well said **cthiax**. I agree completely. I know often times that people have made assumptions about another’s motive for doing whatever only to find that they are wrong. Many don’t offer explanations that aren’t wanted to be heard in the first place. It’s my feeble amount of my money and I don’t feel it’s up to me to judge if they are worthy or not. If they gain one small measure of happiness in an obviously miserable existence, I don’t care where it goes. Others mileage may vary. ---
**Author:** ![Maastricht](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a88e57/32.png) [@Maastricht](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Maastricht)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2006, 11:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/giving-alcohol-to-the-chronically-alcoholic-homeless-good-idea-or-not/338582/12 "2006-01-05T23:38:43Z")
Also, heroin is considerably more expensive then booze. Drugaddicts have to commit crimes to get the few hundred dollars a day they need; so giving them free drugs prevents a lot of " small crimes" . Provinding drunks with free alcohol does not have that advantage to society. ---
**Author:** ![dalej42](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/67e7ee/32.png) [@dalej42](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dalej42)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2006, 8:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/giving-alcohol-to-the-chronically-alcoholic-homeless-good-idea-or-not/338582/13 "2006-01-06T08:00:22Z")
> [@Maastricht](#): > > Also, heroin is considerably more expensive then booze. Drugaddicts have to commit crimes to get the few hundred dollars a day they need; so giving them free drugs prevents a lot of " small crimes" . > > Provinding drunks with free alcohol does not have that advantage to society. Might it reduce the petty car thefts though? It is annoying to know that I can’t leave change in my car or else the window will be broken. A 16 oz beer can be bought for a little as 99 cents in many convenience stores. Not sure I agree with the policy, but drunks commit petty crimes like this as much as heroin addicts who have to steal something of value for a fix. ---
**Author:** ![betenoir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/258eb7/32.png) [@betenoir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/betenoir)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2006, 8:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/giving-alcohol-to-the-chronically-alcoholic-homeless-good-idea-or-not/338582/14 "2006-01-06T08:44:07Z")
> [@II Gyan II](#): > > There’s also heroin maintenance in UK, Spain, Netherlands and possibly Switzerland. But a daily regimen of regular alcohol, I believe, is more detrimental to functioning than opiates. Yes but if you’re _physically_ addicted to alcohol going without it is detrimental. In fact a lot more dangerous than withdrawing from opiates. If fact not something that should be done without doctor’s care, which they obviously don’t have. Maybe giving them enough to avoid that…well, could be safer than them spending the day looking for their fix. And in all likelyhood ending up drinking more than what they’re given. (That is, it become a lot like a heroin addiction.) ---
**Author:** ![sleestak](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/919ad9/32.png) [@sleestak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sleestak)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2006, 8:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/giving-alcohol-to-the-chronically-alcoholic-homeless-good-idea-or-not/338582/15 "2006-01-06T08:51:21Z")
Speaking as a recovering alcoholic (1 year and ~11 months clean and sober), if your goal is to shut the homeless alcoholic up while slowly killing the person, then by all means give them some booze. If you give them enough to stay just drunk enough they will just die quietly. As an added bonus, they won’t be bothering normal people. If you believe, as apparently the people doing this study do, that some people are beyond help then this might be a decent solution. I do not believe that most alcoholics are beyond help. I know too many alocholics who were seriously down and out, including myself, who are now productive members of society to write off these people as hopeless. There are some who are hopeless, who will never get sober. Sad but true. At the same time some of these people are not beyond help and I believe that this kind of program is going to hurt them more than help. Why get sober if someone is going to give you free booze? Slee