# Giving credit where it's due (re: Bush and the ME) **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [July 17, 2006, 7:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/giving-credit-where-its-due-re-bush-and-the-me/364917 "2006-07-17T19:50:43Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 9\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![DxZero](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@DxZero](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DxZero)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2006, 3:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/giving-credit-where-its-due-re-bush-and-the-me/364917/21 "2006-07-18T03:10:29Z")
[QUOTE=Rufus Xavier] That they have not done so could be seen as proof that their thirst for blood has been somewhat overstated. [/QUOTE] Or maybe their ability to quench that thirst is slightly preoccupied with other matters… Or maybe it’s a little of column A and a little of column B. ---
**Author:** ![duffer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/duffer/32/1026_2.png) [@duffer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/duffer)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2006, 3:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/giving-credit-where-its-due-re-bush-and-the-me/364917/22 "2006-07-18T03:27:41Z")
[QUOTE=DxZero] Or maybe their ability to quench that thirst is slightly preoccupied with other matters… Or maybe it’s a little of column A and a little of column B. [/QUOTE] Or maybe some people will just see Bush as out for war if his ice cream isn’t cold enough. That’s how ridiculous it’s getting. [Here ya go](http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/politics/20060716-9999-1m16dean.html). > [@Howard Dean](#): > > “If you think what’s going on in the Middle East today would be going on if the Democrats were in control, it wouldn’t, because we would have worked day after day after day to make sure we didn’t get where we are today. We would have had the moral authority that Bill Clinton had when he brought together the Northern Irish and the IRA, when he brought together the Israelis and the Palestinians.” Yup, the IRA and that issue was/is exactly the same. Direct comparisons are warranted. (Though, the IRA and London haven’t been going at it for 5000 years. But, meh, details.) Too bad we didn’t have the foresight to make Bill Clinton leader for life. I’ve grown to kind of like Bill, he didn’t fuck anything up too badly (debatable I guess), and he makes for a great punchline. But to suggest he was the answer to centuries of animosity? I’d expect that rhetoric from Franken, but the leader of the DNC? If that’s who you want to lead the direction of the party, sell the house and send him a check. It can only help conservatives. ---
**Author:** ![Lissa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/85f322/32.png) [@Lissa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lissa)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2006, 4:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/giving-credit-where-its-due-re-bush-and-the-me/364917/23 "2006-07-18T04:53:25Z")
[QUOTE=Key Lime Guy] As a lefty, I was more or less certain that the warmongering Bush Admin. would use any pretense to start bombing Iran and Syria. Instead they’ve shown admirable restraint. Good job so far. (started in the pit under the assumption that it would get there soon enough) [/QUOTE] Regrettably, if he was still riding the wave of unquestioned patriotic fervor from 9/11, and our military was not overextended, I do beelive the restraint would not be so poignant. I see the restraint as a political and logistical necessity, not a choice by the administration. I was listening to NPR today and I was intrigued by Ambassador Wilson’s assertion that the Bush Administration is fringe of the Republican party that only got power because of a single historical event. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2006, 5:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/giving-credit-where-its-due-re-bush-and-the-me/364917/24 "2006-07-18T05:48:21Z")
[QUOTE=duffer] Or maybe some people will just see Bush as out for war if his ice cream isn’t cold enough. That’s how ridiculous it’s getting. [/quote] If you remember Sy Hersh’s article, they did have plans for using nuclear weapons on Iran - as an option, not as the chosen course. Happily the military has made them back off. > [@](#): > > Yup, the IRA and that issue was/is exactly the same. Direct comparisons are warranted. (Though, the IRA and London haven’t been going at it for 5000 years. But, meh, details.) > > Too bad we didn’t have the foresight to make Bill Clinton leader for life. I’ve grown to kind of like Bill, he didn’t fuck anything up too badly (debatable I guess), and he makes for a great punchline. > > But to suggest he was the answer to centuries of animosity? I’d expect that rhetoric from Franken, but the leader of the DNC? If that’s who you want to lead the direction of the party, sell the house and send him a check. It can only help conservatives. Diplomacy is tough, and it takes an attention span far greater than Bush has. Destroying our credibility hasn’t helped, the desire for democratic elections without considering the consequences haven’t, and sending his buddy to do a PR blitz (remember that - worked real well) hasn’t either. Whiners like you and your buddy just moan how nobody could do better when things get fucked up. It’s not Democrat or Republican (Henry the K knew what he was doing) it’s competence vs. incompetence, and you’ve got the incompetent side. ---
**Author:** ![Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e36b37/32.png) [@Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airman_Doors_USAF)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2006, 5:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/giving-credit-where-its-due-re-bush-and-the-me/364917/25 "2006-07-18T05:55:51Z")
[QUOTE=Lissa] I was listening to NPR today and I was intrigued by Ambassador Wilson’s assertion that the Bush Administration is fringe of the Republican party that only got power because of a single historical event. [/QUOTE] Yes, that’s quite a remarkable statement considering that Bush was elected nearly a year prior to that single historical event. Unless he’s implying that the people knew that 9/11 was going to happen and elected Bush accordingly that far ahead of the actual event, I’d say the only thing that could be considered “fringe” is Mr. Wilson’s opinion, and if he is implying that he went straight to “lunatic fringe”. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2006, 5:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/giving-credit-where-its-due-re-bush-and-the-me/364917/26 "2006-07-18T05:56:57Z")
[QUOTE=Lissa] I see the restraint as a political and logistical necessity, not a choice by the administration. [/QUOTE] Hence my comment about lowered expectations. **Key Lime Guy** is praising Bush for not doing something that he shouldn’t do - and isn’t doing because he can’t. I mean, I’m glad that invasions of Syria and Iran don’t seem imminent, but _fuck_, I can’t find a way to make it a complement for Bush. ---
**Author:** ![Lissa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/85f322/32.png) [@Lissa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lissa)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2006, 12:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/giving-credit-where-its-due-re-bush-and-the-me/364917/27 "2006-07-18T12:17:54Z")
[QUOTE=Airman Doors, USAF] Yes, that’s quite a remarkable statement considering that Bush was elected nearly a year prior to that single historical event. Unless he’s implying that the people knew that 9/11 was going to happen and elected Bush accordingly that far ahead of the actual event, I’d say the only thing that could be considered “fringe” is Mr. Wilson’s opinion, and if he is implying that he went straight to “lunatic fringe”. [/QUOTE] I think he was implying that the actions the administration took after 9/11 were indicative of very few Republicans and that the administration was able to show their true colors. They would not have been re-elected except for the patriotic fervor. I just thought it was interesting. I guess it was like saying Bush was a wolf in sheep’s clothes when he was elected in 2000. He preached a “united” America and an isolationist foreign policy. But, once given the opportunity by 9/11, he tore a gaping hole in the fabric of a united nation and practiced nation building at a level not seen for some time. ---
**Author:** ![guizot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guizot/32/3636_2.png) [@guizot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/guizot)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2006, 12:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/giving-credit-where-its-due-re-bush-and-the-me/364917/28 "2006-07-20T00:49:23Z")
[QUOTE=Voyager] If you remember Sy Hersh’s article, they did have plans for using nuclear weapons on Iran - as an option, not as the chosen course. Happily the military has made them back off. [/QUOTE] I believe they want to develop a kind of nuclear weapon that is not so drastic, but that can reach silos or shelters deep underground, and not outrage the world. I’m not sure that they have perfected this technology yet, and perhaps that has kept them from taking any further action. ---
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2006, 1:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/giving-credit-where-its-due-re-bush-and-the-me/364917/29 "2006-07-20T01:03:19Z")
[QUOTE=Airman Doors, USAF] Yes, that’s quite a remarkable statement considering that Bush was elected nearly a year prior to that single historical event. Unless he’s implying that the people knew that 9/11 was going to happen and elected Bush accordingly that far ahead of the actual event, [/QUOTE] Not having listened to that piece, as of yet, it’s possible that he meant that the degree of power the Bush administration got after 9/11 is what’s remarkable, not that they simply got power. Much of his agenda got rammed through under the cover of patriotism/national security, and he got re-elected due, in large part, to people not wanting to change horses in the middle of the race, so to speak. Being a War President certainly helped him solidify his power base. No? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/giving-credit-where-its-due-re-bush-and-the-me/364917.md?page=1)