http://gcsac.org/newsletter/archive.html/200604.html
http://www.canada.com/ottawacitizen/news/story.html?id=4f24294c-f706-487d-93ef-28171faae582&k=0
I have no intention of saying anything further than I have on that issue. If Czarcasm says it’s ok, then I am happy to discuss my opinion of his personal circumstances and why I believe it to be so.
Since he believes it is out of bounds to question or express skepticism about his claims, then I’m not going to consider those circumstances either way in this debate.
No, I mean exactly what I say – nothing more, and nothing less. And by the way, I am not using my personal financial circumstances as evidence of anything in this discussion. If you like, I am happy to stipulate for the sake of argument that I am poor and struggling. Or unmarried. It doesn’t affect my position at all.
I slept rough for a couple of weeks, and was given a lot of help to stay on my feet by homeless charities, they really made a difference in my life. I still donate to them regularly, as I know they give people the help they need.
I don’t give money to beggars though, as who knows where the money will go.
If you want to call me a liar, you may do so…in the BBQ Pit.
nm
I do not want to call you a liar. On the contrary, I will not express an opinion one way or another about the truth or falsehood of your story unless you specifically tell me that you do not object to questioning and/or skepticism about your story.
Count me in with those who will give a couple of bucks and not care if they pool that money to go get bombed.
There is nothing I can do in my 15 second interaction with that person that will change his situation, and my withholding of 2 bucks isn’t going to make him stay sober that night and see the error of his ways.
His life sucks and if me buying him a bottle of cheap vodka helps him get through the day, then that’s fine with me.
Okay, so all of those, 100%, were anecdotal press pieces. Do you have any links to actual, systematic studies? Otherwise, those links are equally valid as Czarcasm’s reports of his own circumstances.
You claimed that I was a former drug and/or alcohol abuser. Your choices now are:
- Present evidence that I was a drug and/or alcohol abuser.
- Apologize.
You can do the latter in this thread, but you have my permission to do the former in The BBQ Pit.
Except that I was reporting first-hand, which should be slightly more credible, correct?
They are far more valid since they are based on observations of numerous individuals and are not simply the claims of an anonymous person on the internet who has declared his story off-limits for questioning or skepticism.
Heck, Czarcasm even denied that he had engaged in panhandling so he doesn’t even purport to have firsthand knowledge which contradicts the cites I provided.
Why does he have to back up his unproven allegations? You got all pissy and refused to back up yours.
Regards,
Shodan
If people do not want to help the homeless or poor, it is not necessary to paint them as bad people, junkies alcoholics or too stupid to take one of the many, many jobs that are waiting for them. Just don’t give them anything.
It is bad enough they live on the streets in desperation. They do not have to be expected to tolerate the abuse. Just walk away without being judgmental. Everyone of them has a personal story of how they got there, and you are not privy to it.
But pretending the next person that asks for help is an alcoholic or junkie ,not deserving help, is compounding the cruelty. There are plenty of alcoholics working and making a good living. Maybe some of you are. But of course your job is guaranteed for life. You can never wind up in trouble.
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I hereby assert that my position in this debate is correct based on my extensive personal knowledge.
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If you question or express skepticism about my claimed personal knowledge, then you are insinuating that I am a liar and you had better apologize.
I never “panhandled” as a rule, but I did ask for change or bus tickets when there was a prospect for a temporary job or a small chance for a semi-safe place to sleep for the night. If I had the skill I wouldn’t have hesitated playing music for change. Among the homeless I knew, what wasn’t socked away to maybe afford a cheap room sometime in the foreseeable future was spent of fast food, then cigarettes, then booze. I don’t begrudge them for spending money of cigarettes, because it’s hard enough kicking that addiction when you are in a good situation-when you don’t think that you are going to last five more years why even go through the effort? Those the hid in a bottle of cheap but strong wine for warmth and comfort…well, at least they had false comfort to fall back on, rather than none at all. I was always too afraid of losing myself or getting rolled to go down that route, but I don’t know how much further my resolve would have lasted.
The question is not whether these people deserve help; the question is whether it’s counterproductive to hand them cash.
And claiming that most of them are alcoholics and junkies justifies your not helping a fellow human being who has begged for your assistance? You have no idea what that person’s situation is, whether they are addicted to anything or not, or whether the help they personally need is available to them via outside agencies(which are almost always understaffed, overworked and inadequate)-lumping them all together as one defective group allows you to dismiss them without exception.
Are there any cites available that show that when a “Give a hand up, not a hand out” type of campaign is promoted, charitable donations to agencies designed to directly help the homeless go up?
I haven’t ever been approached by a homeless family. I’ve been asked for cigarettes, been told they lost their cell phone and needed bus money (haha), been approached by obviously wasted individuals begging for money, etc. I’ve yet to run into a family, or even a man or woman asking for help - and/or - wanting to know where the local shelters or charity groups are.