# Giving up the right-of-way **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [December 5, 2012, 5:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/giving-up-the-right-of-way/643039 "2012-12-05T05:02:19Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 15\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Anaamika](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Anaamika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anaamika)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2012, 2:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/giving-up-the-right-of-way/643039/21 "2012-12-06T14:23:02Z")
Ours were a bit more concise. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Bullitt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bullitt/32/5725_2.png) [@Bullitt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bullitt)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2012, 2:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/giving-up-the-right-of-way/643039/22 "2012-12-06T14:35:00Z")
I’m being clear. ---
**Author:** ![scr4](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/59ef9b/32.png) [@scr4](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/scr4)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2012, 3:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/giving-up-the-right-of-way/643039/23 "2012-12-06T15:01:55Z")
> [@Blakeyrat](#): > > It’s virtually unheard-of in Seattle for a cyclist to obey traffic lights, stop signs, to stay in a single lane instead of riding between lanes, or to ride on pedestrian ways without getting off their bikes and walking, or to stop for pedestrians. > > At the same time, every cyclist I’ve spoken to claims that they follow all the rules of the road, and it’s the other cyclists who peeve me (and them) off. Hmm. It means it only takes a few idiots to create the impression that everyone is an idiot. Or, the cyclists who break the laws are not in your social circles and not likely to have spoken with you. ---
**Author:** ![Snnipe\_70E](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5a626/32.png) [@Snnipe\_70E](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snnipe_70E)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2012, 4:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/giving-up-the-right-of-way/643039/24 "2012-12-07T04:37:54Z")
> [@johnpost](#): > > a bicyclist has the right of way over a car if they arrive first or simultaneously. auto drivers might wave you through if they arrive slightly later because some of them are nice. > > i too will often wave through a car when on bike or foot. they can clear the intersection much quicker and you are more sure of being safe. with many lighting and windshield situations you can’t be sure if you are seen, so waiting is safer (you might have to wave more than once). with the high level of distracted drivers these days you can’t be sure that you are noticed if they have their head pointed towards you for a long time. A bicyclistis a moving vehicle and by law is required to obey the VC. So the first at the stop has the right of way. If they arrive simultaneously like two cars the one on the right has the right of way. ---
**Author:** ![Snnipe\_70E](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5a626/32.png) [@Snnipe\_70E](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snnipe_70E)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2012, 4:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/giving-up-the-right-of-way/643039/25 "2012-12-07T04:42:30Z")
> [@echo7tango](#): > > I agree wholeheartedly. Thanks, other driver, for trying to be polite but your kindness is misguided. If it is your right of way, then take it! > > One pet peeve of mine (and not to hijack), is when bicyclists are riding in a crosswalk and think they have right of way because they’re in said crosswalk (California driver here). Sorry, guy, but pedestrians have the right of way in the crosswalk, not bicycle riders. If you want right-of-way protection then get off your bike and walk it - and _ **that** _ makes you a pedestrian and, therefore, “protected.” Agreeed. What really gets me is when the cop stops to let a bicyclist cross against the VC, and then continues on because the cop does not what was wrong. When I commuted on a bike I would say that 90% of bike ridders do not obey the VC. ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2012, 2:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/giving-up-the-right-of-way/643039/26 "2012-12-07T14:52:58Z")
I tend to agree with OP: coping with traffic is far simpler when drivers simply follow the rules of the road. I drive in rural Thailand where a complication is that the _de facto_ and _de jure_ rules are quite different. For example, those entering a roundabout should yield to those already in it; this is the traffic law everywhere including Thailand. But in practice, if you’re in the roundabout you’d better be ready to yield to those entering: they think they have the right-of-way. Pedestrians never have the right-of-way in Thailand, whether they’re in a crosswalk or not. Stopping politely for them usually just irritates and confuses them! … And puts them at risk: if they do cross, the driver behind you is likely to swerve illegally to hit the pedestrians. Some rural Thai drivers believe that turning on hazard lights or turn indicators gives them the right-of-way. I would have collided with one were it not that my anti-lock brakes were in excellent working order. “I had my turn indicator on,” he exclaimed as we rolled down our windows to comment to each other on the near-collision. I didn’t know what to reply: even if he thought the indicators gave him the right-of-way, did he think they affected the laws of physics and braking distance? ---
**Author:** ![CookingWithGas](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cookingwithgas/32/485_2.png) [@CookingWithGas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CookingWithGas)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2012, 6:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/giving-up-the-right-of-way/643039/27 "2012-12-07T18:28:33Z")
Just a note of right of way: Most, if not all, states specify who must \*yield \*right of way, not who \*has \*it. It seems like a technicality but a driver can be found at fault if he causes an accident by aggressively insisting on taking the right of way. For example, you arrive at a stop sign _at the same time_ as a car opposing you. The other car has his left turn signal on, planning to turn. This means he must yield to you. But he stops and quickly continues through before you can, making his left turn right in front of you. Which really pisses you off. You floor it and T-bone him. He failed to yield but you do not have right of way to the extent that gives you the right to cause an accident. > [@echo7tango](#): > > One pet peeve of mine (and not to hijack), is when bicyclists are riding in a crosswalk and think they have right of way because they’re in said crosswalk (California driver here). Sorry, guy, but pedestrians have the right of way in the crosswalk, not bicycle riders. If you want right-of-way protection then get off your bike and walk it - and _ **that** _ makes you a pedestrian and, therefore, “protected.” Be aware of state law here. In Virginia in many situations a cyclist is treated as a pedestrian, such as when traversing a crosswalk. ---
**Author:** ![Bullitt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bullitt/32/5725_2.png) [@Bullitt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bullitt)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2012, 8:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/giving-up-the-right-of-way/643039/28 "2012-12-07T20:51:35Z")
> [@CookingWithGas](#): > > Be aware of state law here. In Virginia in many situations a cyclist is treated as a pedestrian, such as when traversing a crosswalk. Thanks. I give a wide berth to cyclists anyway, even when they don’t have the right of way and are taking it. In my younger days I cycled to school, including riding in San Francisco when I went to SF State (from near the Cow Palace). I also commuted to work by bike, sometimes taking it on the train and sometimes riding the 20-odd miles between Burlingame and Mountain View. Bicyclists have enough of a challenge without me making it tougher on them, even if I’m in the right. When I bicycled, I had a saying, “I might be right, but I don’t want to be dead right!” ---
**Author:** ![Wheelz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wheelz/32/5718_2.png) [@Wheelz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wheelz)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2012, 9:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/giving-up-the-right-of-way/643039/29 "2012-12-07T21:32:42Z")
A similar thing happened to me a while back, though in my car and not on a bike. I was waiting to turn left at an intersection with a solid green light (no arrow), yielding to oncoming traffic. An oncoming driver in the left lane decided to stop and wave me through to turn in front of him. Wisely, I declined his offer, since the driver to his right was having none of it and proceeded (quite rightly) through the intersection. Meanwhile, the stopped guy got an earful of horn from the car that suddenly had to stop short behind him because he was stopped at a green light! If he’d just gone ahead I’d have been able to turn in about 10 seconds, so he wasn’t really doing me a favor in the first place. What a jackass. ---
**Author:** ![Bullitt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bullitt/32/5725_2.png) [@Bullitt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bullitt)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2012, 9:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/giving-up-the-right-of-way/643039/30 "2012-12-07T21:34:52Z")
But, a _ **nice** _ jackass he was! ---
**Author:** ![Learjeff](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/94ad74/32.png) [@Learjeff](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Learjeff)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2012, 10:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/giving-up-the-right-of-way/643039/31 "2012-12-07T22:08:10Z")
> [@Emtar\_KronJonDerSohn](#): > > Absolutely a driver can relinquish the right of way. Quibble: a driver can yield right-of-way _practically_ but not _legally_. Someone can offer you right of way and then smash into you. The cops will look at the arrangement of the vehicles and make a snap judgment on who’s in the right of way. Saying “But he waved me through!” might not help you out much, even if the other guy admits it. Basically, when you have to yeild the right of way, if someone else hits you, you’re assumed to be at fault. Often, it doesn’t matter even if there are extenuating circumstances (e.g., “but the other guy was speeding!”) I remember when my son was a beginning driver. I had to caution him not to try to be nice, but to just follow the rules of the road. My point was, if he waves someone in or through, is he SURE he sees EVERYTHING that matters to the situation, making it safe for the other driver? For a new driver, there’s enough going on to know that about one’s own situation, and it’s a mistake to try to extend that. After you’ve been driving a few years, then you’ll see there are cases where a little kindness on your part helps a lot, like when coming to a halt due to stopped traffic in front, leaving a space for the car that’s trying to pull into your lane. I also cautioned him about waves of other people. In the case above, where it’s clear that the driver waving is the ONLY vehicle that matters, ok fine. But in any other case, are you willing to put your life and/or vehicle at risk to that other guy’s judgment? Not me, thanks. ---
**Author:** ![Kevbo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/e47774/32.png) [@Kevbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kevbo)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2012, 11:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/giving-up-the-right-of-way/643039/32 "2012-12-07T23:56:39Z")
Had one this very morning. 4 way stop, I am headed South, she was headed West (so I am on her left.) and already stopped long before I arrived. As I rolled to a stop near the center-line dayglow glove out signaling my left turn. I refuse to look at her, but I can see her waving me through with my peripheral vision. Finally she turns right. So there was not even a potential conflict, yet this sub-epsilon moron was trying to yield to the bicycle on the left. Worst part was she had a kid in the car. Hopefully it was adopted, so she didn’t pass those genes on. ---
**Author:** ![Bullitt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bullitt/32/5725_2.png) [@Bullitt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bullitt)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2012, 12:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/giving-up-the-right-of-way/643039/33 "2012-12-08T00:03:29Z")
_(Yelling)_ "You! Out of the gene pool!" ---
**Author:** ![GusNSpot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gusnspot/32/436_2.png) [@GusNSpot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GusNSpot)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2012, 12:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/giving-up-the-right-of-way/643039/34 "2012-12-08T00:20:49Z")
My turn signal is information, not a request. ---
**Author:** ![Bullitt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bullitt/32/5725_2.png) [@Bullitt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bullitt)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2012, 12:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/giving-up-the-right-of-way/643039/35 "2012-12-08T00:36:07Z")
In heavy multi-lane traffic, if I need to change lanes (same direction) and that lane is crowded, a signal can be a request, IMO. However, the request does not need to be granted. It also might not be seen. That lane is “owned” by the cars occupying it. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/giving-up-the-right-of-way/643039.md?page=1)