# Glad to see the Republicans are still running Congress **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [August 16, 2009, 7:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/glad-to-see-the-republicans-are-still-running-congress/506648 "2009-08-16T19:38:49Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 12
**Author:** ![Drain\_Bead](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e47774/32.png) [@Drain\_Bead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Drain_Bead)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2009, 6:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/glad-to-see-the-republicans-are-still-running-congress/506648/221 "2009-08-18T18:31:18Z")
> [@Rand\_Rover](#): > > Drain Bead, you say you are exactly like me except for your political philosophy, but you make very little at your job and apparently was given very valuable property from your family. I make probably 6 or 7 times what you make and have never been given anything from my family (not even money for living expenses while I was in college). Doesn’t look like we are all that similar to me. I wasn’t given anything in terms of valuable property from my family. I make less than you by choice–I have the ability to be a PD solely because of the fact that I got a full-ride scholarship, and chose to give back rather than to go out and make a buck. Our initial investment into my husband’s business (I call it that even though the initial outlay of cash was ours because he does all the work for it) was $2500, then an additional $10K to buy out another partner early on. Needless to say, that’s paid off. You may pull in a salary greater than I do, sure, but I can surely hold my own in this dick-swinging contest, sir. The point is, we both have moolah. It comes down to what we choose to do with it. ---
**Author:** ![Kearsen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/82dd89/32.png) [@Kearsen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kearsen)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2009, 6:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/glad-to-see-the-republicans-are-still-running-congress/506648/222 "2009-08-18T18:45:48Z")
How about reuters? > **[Home](https://www.thomsonreuters.com/en.html)** > > The intelligence, technology, and human expertise you need to find trusted answers. I can do this all day long. How about you believe my assertion and go do some research? All I am doing is debunking your claim that the immigration problem is a trivial issue to health care. I think that is done. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2009, 6:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/glad-to-see-the-republicans-are-still-running-congress/506648/223 "2009-08-18T18:46:06Z")
Will someone double-check and make sure that **Drain Bead** is not on the Straight to the Wall Come the Revolution list? ---
**Author:** ![Kearsen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/82dd89/32.png) [@Kearsen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kearsen)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2009, 6:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/glad-to-see-the-republicans-are-still-running-congress/506648/224 "2009-08-18T18:48:13Z")
> [@Bridget\_Burke](#): > > Find a source that isn’t screaming about the Southern Poverty Law Center’s list of hate groups. That is, find a source that isn’t linked with neo-Nativists. > > And give me a list of hospitals closed by “illegal aliens.” I’ve been hearing about this list for yours & have _never_ seen the details. Bridget, I never asserted hospitals were closing because of immigrants but I’m sure I can find a couple if you so desire. I am equally sure that those same hospitals can only point to the fact that they were underpaid by ‘people’ as no doctor I know of asks for papers before they see the patient. “Have Insurance?” “no” “Have a seat, someone will be with you shortly” ---
**Author:** ![RedFury](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ec9cab/32.png) [@RedFury](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RedFury)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2009, 6:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/glad-to-see-the-republicans-are-still-running-congress/506648/225 "2009-08-18T18:53:53Z")
Let me get this straight. This Lou Dobbs wanna-be, **Kearsen** , writes an alarmist post equally blaming the pharma and insurance companies with emergency room care for immigrants and when called on his bullshit, he comes back with a cite from this site? [**ADDENDUM**](http://www.usillegalaliens.com/immigration_facts_figures_and_addendum.html) > [@](#): > > ( **Presented verbatim but I do not have the source for this so I can not vouch for the veracity of the statements and I have not checked the accuracy and/or credibility of the references** ) Take note, that’s not an addendum as much as it is a goddamn disclaimer for all the ensuing sewage. So he then goes on to list endless xenophobic _factoids_ dating all the way back to the fuckin’ sixties (yep, about the time the freakin’ hippies “ruined everything”) and we’re supposed to give credence to these two morons? Guess there aren’t enough rolleyes I can add to this post. ---
**Author:** ![Zakalwe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zakalwe/32/270_2.png) [@Zakalwe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zakalwe)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2009, 7:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/glad-to-see-the-republicans-are-still-running-congress/506648/226 "2009-08-18T19:11:17Z")
> [@Kearsen](#): > > How about reuters?[Clarifying the Complex | Homepage | Thomson Reuters](http://alertnet.org/thenews/newsdesk/N17368922.htm) How about Reuters? > [@The above referenced article](#): > > - U.S. citizens accounted for the bulk of the 8.6 million additional people who reported joining the ranks of the uninsured between 2000 and 2006, according to survey data. Two million of these were non-citizens, while half a million were naturalized citizens. How about you read your own damn cite. Hint: It doesn’t say what you think it says. For example: > [@](#): > > - There is no widely accepted national estimate of the annual cost of healthcare for illegal immigrants, partly because hospitals do not collect immigration figures. Oops. ---
**Author:** ![Nancarrow](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/c37758/32.png) [@Nancarrow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nancarrow)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2009, 8:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/glad-to-see-the-republicans-are-still-running-congress/506648/227 "2009-08-18T20:12:24Z")
> [@Liberal](#): > > Your implied modus tolens is this: > > If Democrats wanted health care, their Representatives and Senators would pass health care in Congress. Their Rs and Ss in Congress have not passed health care; therefore, Democrats must not want health care. > > That’s an [affirmation of the consequent](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Affirming_the_consequent) fallacy. Ahem. Check your working! 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Kearsen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/82dd89/32.png) [@Kearsen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kearsen)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2009, 8:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/glad-to-see-the-republicans-are-still-running-congress/506648/228 "2009-08-18T20:17:42Z")
I already conceded that hospitals don’t calculate “illegal” vs legal Zakalwe. Mayhap it is you who need to read? ---
**Author:** ![Kearsen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/82dd89/32.png) [@Kearsen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kearsen)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2009, 8:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/glad-to-see-the-republicans-are-still-running-congress/506648/229 "2009-08-18T20:20:34Z")
RedFury, you feel that illegal aliens who pay no taxes yet receive welfare and free health care do not hamper our own ability to help the legal immigrants we currently support? ---
**Author:** ![Rand\_Rover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/db5fbb/32.png) [@Rand\_Rover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rand_Rover)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2009, 8:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/glad-to-see-the-republicans-are-still-running-congress/506648/230 "2009-08-18T20:43:54Z")
> [@Drain\_Bead](#): > > I wasn’t given anything in terms of valuable property from my family. I make less than you by choice–I have the ability to be a PD solely because of the fact that I got a full-ride scholarship, and chose to give back rather than to go out and make a buck. Our initial investment into my husband’s business (I call it that even though the initial outlay of cash was ours because he does all the work for it) was $2500, then an additional $10K to buy out another partner early on. Needless to say, that’s paid off. > > You may pull in a salary greater than I do, sure, but I can surely hold my own in this dick-swinging contest, sir. The point is, we both have moolah. It comes down to what we choose to do with it. Ok, apologies, I thought the interests were given to you and were not from a business your husband created. The very last part of your post is very much off topic. We are talking about a government program, which involves the government forcing me to do something with my money, so your quip about the differences in what we choose to do with our money is a complete non sequitur. ---
**Author:** ![Blalron](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/35a633/32.png) [@Blalron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blalron)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2009, 8:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/glad-to-see-the-republicans-are-still-running-congress/506648/231 "2009-08-18T20:53:43Z")
> [@Rand\_Rover](#): > > Ok, apologies, I thought the interests were given to you and were not from a business your husband created. > > The very last part of your post is very much off topic. We are talking about a government program, which involves the government forcing me to do something with my money, so your quip about the differences in what we choose to do with our money is a complete non sequitur. One thing I’ve never once heard you complain about is the bloated Pentagon budget, which in recent years has cost more than Universal Healthcare would. I’m kind of curious what your thoughts are on this. ---
**Author:** ![Stratocaster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stratocaster/32/16393_2.png) [@Stratocaster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stratocaster)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2009, 9:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/glad-to-see-the-republicans-are-still-running-congress/506648/232 "2009-08-18T21:26:00Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > As an addendum to my last post I would also say that I wouldn’t be averse to seeing insurance companies being regulated in a manner similar to public utilities, where their profits are fixed. They currently enjoy about 3 cents for every dollar of revenue. What purpose would this serve? What would you fix it at? And this may be covered elsewhere in the thread (this is for anyone), but I have not been able to find much in the way of details regarding the changes proposed for pre-existing conditions. What exactly is being proposed? Someone with a known, pre-existing condition doesn’t need insurance, he needs medical care. If someone with stage IV cancer applies for health insurance, what should happen, based on what is being considered? To suggest that insurance ought to cover this is a tremendous misunderstanding of what insurance is. Is it only if the condition were unknown? This makes absolutely no sense to me, unless there are details I’m missing that would restrict this in some reasonable way. ---
**Author:** ![Monster104](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c6cbf5/32.png) [@Monster104](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monster104)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2009, 9:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/glad-to-see-the-republicans-are-still-running-congress/506648/233 "2009-08-18T21:43:40Z")
> [@Zakalwe](#): > > How about Reuters? > How about you read your own damn cite. Hint: It doesn’t say what you think it says. For example:Oops. 8.6 million people added to the “uninsured” list over a period of 6 years, 2 million of which were non-citizens. I think that quite adequately supports what he was claiming, unless you think that ~23%/2 million of the people added to the “uninsured” list over the last 6 years is somehow a trivial factor to the costs of healthcare. ---
**Author:** ![Rand\_Rover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/db5fbb/32.png) [@Rand\_Rover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rand_Rover)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2009, 10:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/glad-to-see-the-republicans-are-still-running-congress/506648/234 "2009-08-18T22:25:32Z")
> [@Blalron](#): > > One thing I’ve never once heard you complain about is the bloated Pentagon budget, which in recent years has cost more than Universal Healthcare would. I’m kind of curious what your thoughts are on this. I’ve never once heard you state your stance on whether Hitler was truly a bad guy or just misunderstood, but I’m not all that interested in it in any event. I would imagine that most if not all of what the Pentagon does falls under the heading of things I think it’s OK for the government to do. Therefore, I would look at the budget item for that differently than the budget item for UHC. If it can be trimmed down, then that would be good. I’m not sure what more you want out of me than that. ---
**Author:** ![Grumman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/43a26b/32.png) [@Grumman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grumman)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2009, 11:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/glad-to-see-the-republicans-are-still-running-congress/506648/235 "2009-08-18T23:04:22Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > B. Not knowing what’s in it is an equally strong argument for \*supporting \*it. No, it isn’t. It’s an argument for finding out whether you should support it, but anyone who would support a new law, hypothesis or contract _by default_ is a fool who cannot be trusted to make rational decisions. ---
**Author:** ![begbert2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/begbert2/32/3357_2.png) [@begbert2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/begbert2)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2009, 11:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/glad-to-see-the-republicans-are-still-running-congress/506648/236 "2009-08-18T23:18:30Z")
> [@Grumman](#): > > No, it isn’t. It’s an argument for finding out whether you should support it, but anyone who would support a new law, hypothesis or contract _by default_ is a fool who cannot be trusted to make rational decisions. Yes it is - it’s equally strong with _opposing_ it due to ignorance about it, because that’s a completely stupid idea too. The idea wasn’t that unthinking acceptance is good, it’s that unthinking rejection is bad. ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2009, 11:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/glad-to-see-the-republicans-are-still-running-congress/506648/237 "2009-08-18T23:31:34Z")
Look, let’s face it, most of the people here who are in favor of it have no idea what’s in it; they just want to be able to go to the doctor anytime they want and not have to pay for it. And most of the people who are against it don’t have any idea what’s in it but they are opposed to it due to government inefficiency, long waits, the potential for care to be withheld due to cost, and an overriding belief that people sacrifice freedom when they turn important aspects of their life over to the government to handle. Then we have the fact that, as I understand it, very few to none of the nation’s lawmakers have read the bill, and among those who’ve tried, they feel unqualified to decipher it. But according to Arlen Specter, it’s still necessary to push it through because “_decisions have to be made fast_”, as illustrated in the clip I linked to upthread. I think that when you look at the pork in the rushed-through spending package that was so important that time couldn’t be taken to post it 48 hours in advance, as Obama promised, yet which could still languish on his desk for three days while he was on holiday, and the fact that most of the country’s lawmakers are ignorant of or uncomprehending of its content, and that many of those opposed simply don’t want the government in charge of this aspect of our lives, it is perfectly reasonable to oppose it without knowing what’s in it. And for that matter, for those of us who oppose it for reasons of freedom from government intrusion on our lives, even knowing what’s in it doesn’t make it acceptable. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2009, 11:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/glad-to-see-the-republicans-are-still-running-congress/506648/238 "2009-08-18T23:48:13Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > Look, let’s face it, most of the people here who are in favor of it have no idea what’s in it; they just want to be able to go to the doctor anytime they want and not have to pay for it… Or, perhaps, they want to go to the doctor and be able to pay for it. And since when are you peering into the minds of others and telling whats in there? Please present your Certificate of Telepathy for inspection. I say I want it because its a good thing, other who agree with me say that as well, but you know that its because we are freeloaders? Who died and made you God? > [@](#): > > …And for that matter, for those of us who oppose it for reasons of freedom from government intrusion on our lives, even knowing what’s in it doesn’t make it acceptable. Nifty! Ignorance is OK, even preferable, for those who share your faith. But yours is informed ignorance, where others are simply ignorant. If they are ignorant and agree with you, they get a pass, all others must demonstrate mastery. ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2009, 11:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/glad-to-see-the-republicans-are-still-running-congress/506648/239 "2009-08-18T23:52:45Z")
> [@Nancarrow](#): > > Ahem. Check your working! 😉 Fuck. ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2009, 11:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/glad-to-see-the-republicans-are-still-running-congress/506648/240 "2009-08-18T23:56:50Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > Nifty! Ignorance is OK, even preferable, for those who share your faith. But yours is informed ignorance, where others are simply ignorant. If they are ignorant and agree with you, they get a pass, all others must demonstrate mastery. Not at all. There is nothing in the world wrong with someone who opposes it becoming educated as to what it contains; it’s just that people can have perfectly valid reasons for opposing it that lie outside the scope of the bill’s content. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/glad-to-see-the-republicans-are-still-running-congress/506648.md?page=11) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/glad-to-see-the-republicans-are-still-running-congress/506648.md?page=13)