# Glad to see the Republicans are still running Congress **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [August 16, 2009, 7:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/glad-to-see-the-republicans-are-still-running-congress/506648 "2009-08-16T19:38:49Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 16
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2009, 1:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/glad-to-see-the-republicans-are-still-running-congress/506648/301 "2009-08-20T01:25:59Z")
> [@Orbifold](#): > > Watching these threads as a spectator, I have to say this is a question that I don’t see answered frequently enough by U.S. opponents of health care reform. The U.S. health care delivery system isn’t providing health care and health insurance efficiently…the metric in which the free market supposedly excels. It isn’t providing health care and insurance comprehensively, either. The U.S. is a world leader in medical research and shiny toys, yes, but this has more to do with the quality and sheer scale of the U.S. university system (and the government grants that go into that go curiously unmentioned). So by what standard is the U.S. health care delivery system actually admirable? Sheer ideological purity? The repubs admit health care has to be fixed. Some selfish, short term thinking board members say they like their health care as it is. That’s nice but it wont stay as it is. The repubs admitted that in 2000 and 2004. It is costing an increasingly ,unsustainable section of our budget. It wil, be trimmed over and over and soon they will have a health care they can not recognize. It is a problem that needs to be solved as quickly as possible. Now is the time. The dems have to get it done. The repubs are just being political. If the dems do get it done, the repubs will wind up in the dumpster they deserve to be in. They demonstrate that they place the party over the country. ---
**Author:** ![Rand\_Rover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/db5fbb/32.png) [@Rand\_Rover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rand_Rover)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2009, 1:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/glad-to-see-the-republicans-are-still-running-congress/506648/302 "2009-08-20T01:41:21Z")
> [@gonzomax](#): > > They demonstrate that they place the party over the country. Or, they demonstrate that they just have a different idea of what’s best for the country. ---
**Author:** ![Kiber](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kiber/32/317_2.png) [@Kiber](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kiber)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2009, 12:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/glad-to-see-the-republicans-are-still-running-congress/506648/303 "2009-08-20T12:28:38Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > The thing is, what most people are primarily fearful of is that this plan is a foot-in-the-door for government health care that will ultimately result in the beliefs you are claiming as untrue because they aren’t in the bill “so far.” In other words - we like what HAS been proposed. But - we don’t like what has NOT been proposed, and therefore we stand in opposition. ---
**Author:** ![Kearsen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/82dd89/32.png) [@Kearsen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kearsen)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2009, 1:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/glad-to-see-the-republicans-are-still-running-congress/506648/304 "2009-08-20T13:07:24Z")
> [@Blalron](#): > > Oh, by the way, you may be interested in Section [246](http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/F?c111:1:./temp/~c111CH4u7a:e176188:) of H.R 3200: > > Happy now? My argument wasn’t the fact that I thought illegal immigrants were going to receive free health benefits, but its a good link. But since you brought it up, are they going to die on the doorstep of the hospital when they get turned away because they aren’t covered? ---
**Author:** ![Kearsen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/82dd89/32.png) [@Kearsen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kearsen)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2009, 1:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/glad-to-see-the-republicans-are-still-running-congress/506648/305 "2009-08-20T13:22:13Z")
Can’t remember where I found this but it was during some research of a different subject. So I don’t have a link but here is a list of the CEO salaries of big pharma and health care companies: Top 17 CEO yearly salaries in big pharma 1. Miles White - Abbott - $33.4M 2. Fred Hassan - Schering-Plough - $30.1M 3. Bill Weldon - Johnson & Johnson - $25.1M 4. Bob Essner - Wyeth - $24.1M 5. Robert Parkinson - Baxter - $17.6M 6. Daniel Vasella - Novartis - $15.5M 7. Richard Clark - Merck - $14.5M 8. Frank Baldino - Cephalon - $13.5M 9. Sidney Taurel - Eli Lilly - $13M 10. Jeff Kindler - Pfizer - $12.6M 11. Jim Cornelius - Bristol-Myers Squibb - $11.3 12. Franz Humer - Roche - $11.1M 13. Robert Coury - Mylan - $8.5M 14. Jean-Pierre Garnier - GlaxoSmithKline - $6M 15. Werner Wenning - Bayer - $4.77M 16. David Brennan - AstraZeneca - $4.3M 17. Gerard Le Fur - Sanofi-Aventis - $3.27M The point being, it doesn’t really matter what “for profit” companies pay their employees and the only reason it gets brought up is because for the average American (and me) these numbers look huge. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2009, 1:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/glad-to-see-the-republicans-are-still-running-congress/506648/306 "2009-08-20T13:22:27Z")
> [@](#): > > …are they going to die on the doorstep of the hospital when they get turned away because they aren’t covered Would you have it so? ---
**Author:** ![Kearsen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/82dd89/32.png) [@Kearsen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kearsen)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2009, 1:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/glad-to-see-the-republicans-are-still-running-congress/506648/307 "2009-08-20T13:28:45Z")
Actually, it’s all big pharma ---
**Author:** ![Kearsen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/82dd89/32.png) [@Kearsen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kearsen)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2009, 1:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/glad-to-see-the-republicans-are-still-running-congress/506648/308 "2009-08-20T13:29:50Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > Would you have it so? Don’t play stupid eluci. Either this plan they are proposing is going to cover them or not. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2009, 1:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/glad-to-see-the-republicans-are-still-running-congress/506648/309 "2009-08-20T13:40:42Z")
Not so much that, but it seems that you are determined to make illegal immigration the central core of your argument. Perhaps only you amongst the vast teeming are equipped to understand the absolutely crucial significance, in that it has escaped lesser minds. Like mine, for instance. And so many, many others. But might we dare to think of it as a separate issue? Might we not think of this plan as being for the benefit/destruction of our own citizens, and address the question about care for illegals as a separate question? Or perhaps you are anxious to demonstrate that the suggestion that the plan is _intended_ to provide such care is a valid one? But if you believe as you seem to, that they will receive some level of humane care regardless, its rather a moot point, don’t you think? Perhaps if you would just tell us baldly what your point actually is? ---
**Author:** ![Kearsen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/82dd89/32.png) [@Kearsen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kearsen)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2009, 3:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/glad-to-see-the-republicans-are-still-running-congress/506648/310 "2009-08-20T15:17:29Z")
I didn’t think there was much point to Pit posting? You are blindly for public funded health care. I am against it. Does there really need to be anything to MY Argument while you offer nothing substantial of your own? My “stance” has always been that there are other methods of refining our current health care than what is currently being proposed. Surely, even you, can follow along on this path. ---
**Author:** ![Rigamarole](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/77aa72/32.png) [@Rigamarole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rigamarole)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2009, 3:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/glad-to-see-the-republicans-are-still-running-congress/506648/311 "2009-08-20T15:25:15Z")
> [@Kearsen](#): > > I didn’t think there was much point to Pit posting? > You are blindly for public funded health care. I am against it. Does there really need to be anything to MY Argument while you offer nothing substantial of your own? > > My “stance” has always been that there are other methods of refining our current health care than what is currently being proposed. Surely, even you, can follow along on this path. Who are you talking to? I posted the OP because I am unwaveringly in support of a public option, yes. I don’t know if it will be implemented well or not, but taking a crack at it is infinitely preferable to doing nothing, or any “compromise” that continues to support the backbone of the current system. I want to see the health insurance companies brought to their knees and forced to crawl back into the wretched black womb whence they spawned. ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2009, 3:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/glad-to-see-the-republicans-are-still-running-congress/506648/312 "2009-08-20T15:41:36Z")
> [@Kearsen](#): > > Can’t remember where I found this but it was during some research of a different subject. > > So I don’t have a link but here is a list of the CEO salaries of big pharma and health care companies: > > Top 17 CEO yearly salaries in big pharma > > 1. Miles White - Abbott - $33.4M > 2. Fred Hassan - Schering-Plough - $30.1M > 3. Bill Weldon - Johnson & Johnson - $25.1M > 4. Bob Essner - Wyeth - $24.1M > 5. Robert Parkinson - Baxter - $17.6M > 6. Daniel Vasella - Novartis - $15.5M > 7. Richard Clark - Merck - $14.5M > 8. Frank Baldino - Cephalon - $13.5M > 9. Sidney Taurel - Eli Lilly - $13M > 10. Jeff Kindler - Pfizer - $12.6M > 11. Jim Cornelius - Bristol-Myers Squibb - $11.3 > 12. Franz Humer - Roche - $11.1M > 13. Robert Coury - Mylan - $8.5M > 14. Jean-Pierre Garnier - GlaxoSmithKline - $6M > 15. Werner Wenning - Bayer - $4.77M > 16. David Brennan - AstraZeneca - $4.3M > 17. Gerard Le Fur - Sanofi-Aventis - $3.27M > > The point being, it doesn’t really matter what “for profit” companies pay their employees and the only reason it gets brought up is because for the average American (and me) these numbers look huge. That adds up to roughly 249 milllion dollars, which, compared to the gross revenues and net profits these companies make, is not really all that significant. Nor does it take into account the taxes these people pay (I can hear it now, _"Bullshit – rich people don’t pay taxes!_ Which is not only bullshit all its own, but to the extent they are allowed exemptions, it’s Congress who created them. So why not blame Congress instead?) Nor is it significant in terms of what good the country’s population would derive from taking away even 100% of their income. It amounts to less than one dollar per U.S. citizen. This is the trouble with class warfare, a specialty of the Democrats. It creates specious hostility and unrealistic views on the part of the uneducated of the so-called damage being done to them by “the rich.” ---
**Author:** ![Blalron](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/35a633/32.png) [@Blalron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blalron)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2009, 4:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/glad-to-see-the-republicans-are-still-running-congress/506648/313 "2009-08-20T16:14:14Z")
> [@Kearsen](#): > > But since you brought it up, are they going to die on the doorstep of the hospital when they get turned away because they aren’t covered? Probably not. Would you prefer that to happen? I’m wondering what you propose we do about this. Because I don’t think it’s in the national interest to halt domestic programs that benefit our citizens simply to spite illegal aliens. ---
**Author:** ![Kearsen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/82dd89/32.png) [@Kearsen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kearsen)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2009, 6:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/glad-to-see-the-republicans-are-still-running-congress/506648/314 "2009-08-20T18:29:57Z")
> [@Blalron](#): > > Probably not. Would you prefer that to happen? I’m wondering what you propose we do about this. Because I don’t think it’s in the national interest to halt domestic programs that benefit our citizens simply to spite illegal aliens. How about we stop them from getting here in the first place? Or, or get them to go through the proper channels so that, at the very least, they are paying taxes? Now I wonder how we go about doing that. Probably a separate discussion. Did you know that if an illegal alien gives birth in the US, that not only is THAT baby a citizen, it also grants rights to the mother and father as well? ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2009, 6:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/glad-to-see-the-republicans-are-still-running-congress/506648/315 "2009-08-20T18:37:18Z")
Well, heck, **Starkers** , its just a list of numbers! It doesn’t necessarily slander anybody, it just them facty thingys! I would have thought you might be pleased that vigorous entrepreneurship and innovation would be grossly…I mean, justly!..rewarded? So what if they get this money by squeezing it from sick and suffering fellow Americans? Its not like they made them sick, its just seizing the opportunity to grab a buck, and if that’s not the American way, well, what is? > [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > … it’s Congress who created them. So why not blame Congress instead?)… Why blame Pinnochio when its Geppeto’s fault? Its the Golden Rule: the guys whats got the gold, they make the rules. > [@](#): > > …It amounts to less than one dollar per U.S. citizen… I want mine back. > [@](#): > > …This is the trouble with class warfare, a specialty of the Democrats. It creates specious hostility and unrealistic views on the part of the uneducated of the so-called damage being done to them by “the rich.” Piffle. The Dems long ago rebranded themselves as Republican Lite, they stopped waging class war, they have mostly been conducting our surrender negotiations. “Please, sir, can I have some more?” “No!” “Quite right, beggin’ your pardon, sir, anything you need sucked?” ---
**Author:** ![Kearsen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/82dd89/32.png) [@Kearsen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kearsen)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2009, 6:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/glad-to-see-the-republicans-are-still-running-congress/506648/316 "2009-08-20T18:55:56Z")
Do doctors make too much money eluci? RIGHT NOW, it’s the insurance co., soon it will be doctors, then lawyers, where down the line do politicians get pay cuts? Oh wait, that’ll never happen as they actually would have to vote themselves one. Business is run as any business should be run. If there is money to be made, let them make it and keep the government out of it (except for taxing the living shit out of those ‘entrepreneurs’) The government doesn’t realize it but tax hikes don’t target big business because like most folks already know, they just pass on the added costs to the people. What is your stance on MAKING a business be non-smoking? ---
**Author:** ![RedFury](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ec9cab/32.png) [@RedFury](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RedFury)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2009, 6:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/glad-to-see-the-republicans-are-still-running-congress/506648/317 "2009-08-20T18:57:04Z")
**Kearsen** , since you are so eager to find reasons why UHC is economically unfeasable in your country, you need not look any further than your absurd “Defense” budget: [**Military expenditures**](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_military_expenditures) \*\*World: 1,470,000,000,000 USA: 636,292,979,000\*\* 636/1470 roughly equals _42% of all military expenditure in the known universe._ How bad do you (collective) need to kill other people as opposed to saving your own? ---
**Author:** ![Kearsen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/82dd89/32.png) [@Kearsen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kearsen)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2009, 7:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/glad-to-see-the-republicans-are-still-running-congress/506648/318 "2009-08-20T19:04:41Z")
> [@RedFury](#): > > **Kearsen** , since you are so eager to find reasons why UHC is economically unfeasable in your country, you need not look any further than your absurd “Defense” budget: > > [**Military expenditures**](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_military_expenditures) > > \*\*World: 1,470,000,000,000 > > USA: 636,292,979,000\*\* > > 636/1470 roughly equals _42% of all military expenditure in the known universe._ > > How bad do you (collective) need to kill other people as opposed to saving your own? Why do people try to correlate national defense and universal health care? I, for one, could give a rat’s ass about the budget for national defense. If they CAN cut spending on frivolous shit, then they should. ACROSS THE BOARD, the government spends WAY too much. I don’t like it. ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2009, 7:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/glad-to-see-the-republicans-are-still-running-congress/506648/319 "2009-08-20T19:06:57Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > I want mine back. It wasn’t your to begin with, **luce** , I was talking about how little impact there would be if the government siezed 100% of it from the people who earned it and “used it for the public good.” So far as I can tell this this sense of entitlement when it comes to other peoples’ money is one of the major problems with your worldview. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2009, 7:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/glad-to-see-the-republicans-are-still-running-congress/506648/320 "2009-08-20T19:09:46Z")
> [@Kearsen](#): > > Do doctors make too much money eluci?.. Which ones? I know a couple of doctors who don’t make enough money, they became doctors to make people better. And may the Goddess bless them and hold them to Her bountiful bosom all the days of their life, amen. > [@](#): > > …RIGHT NOW, it’s the insurance co., soon it will be doctors, then lawyers, where down the line do politicians get pay cuts?.. Interesting question. Let’s discuss that some time. Some other time. > [@](#): > > …Oh wait, that’ll never happen as they actually would have to vote themselves one… Does that call for a rebutall, or a “whatever”? > [@](#): > > …Business is run as any business should be run. If there is money to be made, let them make it and keep the government out of it (except for taxing the living shit out of those ‘entrepreneurs’)… No. If business cannot be run as a decent and humane exercise, it should not be run. Ever notice how when we get into a military stance, how business rushes to provide for our troops on a non-profit, at-cost basis? Neither have I. Irrelevent, yeah, but you’re doing it, so what the heck… > [@](#): > > …The government doesn’t realize it but tax hikes don’t target big business because like most folks already know, they just pass on the added costs to the people… Hmmmm. Don’t let them? > [@](#): > > …What is your stance on MAKING a business be non-smoking? Absolutely hate it, I smoke, and I feel gradually ostracized. By “ostracized”, going out in below zero weather to feed my monkey. But they’re right, and I’m wrong, so fuck me. (PS: I kind of like the “eluci” cognomen, when I picked my username, it never occured to me how many times I’d have to put with some “some 'splaining to do” and Ricky Retardo jokes…) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/glad-to-see-the-republicans-are-still-running-congress/506648.md?page=15) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/glad-to-see-the-republicans-are-still-running-congress/506648.md?page=17)