# Glad to see the Republicans are still running Congress **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [August 16, 2009, 7:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/glad-to-see-the-republicans-are-still-running-congress/506648 "2009-08-16T19:38:49Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 18
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2009, 8:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/glad-to-see-the-republicans-are-still-running-congress/506648/341 "2009-08-20T20:36:16Z")
> [@Liberal](#): > > Due respect, Red Fury. But some people use that same data to argue that the reason European countries and Japan can afford so many social programs (including heatlh care) is that the US provides such a substantial portion of their defense. Exactamundo! I started to raise that very point when **Red** was touting Norway as a great example of good incomes in a socialist state. Norwegians would have been goose-stepping or calling each other Comrade decades ago if not for the protection afforded it by the U.S.’ willingness to protect other countries and keep them free. But I didn’t because the left has been wanting to divert defense spending to one or another social programs for decades, and I knew it would only trigger a hue and cry to eliminate defense spending in favor of health care, and since I’ve been spending too much time around here already I didn’t want to have to become involved in a whole new line of argument. ---
**Author:** ![RedFury](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ec9cab/32.png) [@RedFury](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RedFury)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2009, 10:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/glad-to-see-the-republicans-are-still-running-congress/506648/342 "2009-08-20T22:00:03Z")
> [@Liberal](#): > > Due respect, Red Fury. But some people use that same data to argue that the reason European countries and Japan can afford so many social programs (including heatlh care) is that the US provides such a substantial portion of their defense. Don’t forget that we have troops stationed in more than half the nations on earth (not counting diplomatic guards or that sort of thing). We also provide a missile and fighter jet shield for people other than ourselves. Defense costs a lot of money. And you’d be right in quoting said people. I’m not making excuses for the Europeans; simply saying there’s a much-needed global restructure, where everyone carries both their burdens and obligations. Not talking about utopia, simply being pragmatic – if any one nation is overstretched let them deal with it by making the necessary adjustments. Needless to say I don’t think very highly of globalization as currently implemented. In fact, I think it’s a scam that favors already developed nations. That said, how much “defense” is enough\*? And again, at what cost to the citizens themselves? \*how many times over can we blow the planet as is? ---
**Author:** ![PrettyVacant](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/49beb7/32.png) [@PrettyVacant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PrettyVacant)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2009, 10:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/glad-to-see-the-republicans-are-still-running-congress/506648/343 "2009-08-20T22:04:47Z")
So I’m kind of confused. You have an election and you vote for the guy who’s ideas you like. He gets elected and then he isn’t allowed to enact the mandate the majority voted for. Why did you vote, and where is the democracy in all this? ---
**Author:** ![Orbifold](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/779978/32.png) [@Orbifold](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Orbifold)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2009, 10:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/glad-to-see-the-republicans-are-still-running-congress/506648/344 "2009-08-20T22:18:31Z")
I just want to toss another log on the fire, since someone brought up defense spending and since I found this amusing. [Here](http://lefarkins.blogspot.com/2009/08/nhs-and-f-22.html), a back-of-the-envelope calculation suggests that if the US was just using the British NHS system then there’d be enough money saved to buy the airforce 500 new F-22 Raptors and have $225 billion left over. That’s just the difference between public spenditures in the US and UK, mind you. ---
**Author:** ![PrettyVacant](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/49beb7/32.png) [@PrettyVacant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PrettyVacant)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2009, 11:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/glad-to-see-the-republicans-are-still-running-congress/506648/345 "2009-08-20T23:25:30Z")
But no one has proposed anything remotely resembling the British NHS. ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2009, 11:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/glad-to-see-the-republicans-are-still-running-congress/506648/346 "2009-08-20T23:47:00Z")
> [@Orbifold](#): > > I just want to toss another log on the fire, since someone brought up defense spending and since I found this amusing. [Here](http://lefarkins.blogspot.com/2009/08/nhs-and-f-22.html), a back-of-the-envelope calculation suggests that if the US was just using the British NHS system then there’d be enough money saved to buy the airforce 500 new F-22 Raptors and have $225 billion left over. That’s just the difference between public spenditures in the US and UK, mind you. That would be because Americans wouldn’t be getting the immediate, high-quality care that most of them are getting presently. I submit it’s almost impossible at this stage to say what the true costs of UHC would be, particularly after the cycle completes and the left manages to bring everyone under its cumbersome, ill-funded (as Canada and the UK are beginning to acknowledge regarding their systems) umbrella. And just how is it that insurance companies, who apparently operate on only a 3% profit margin, are supposed to be forced to take on pre-existing conditions without going bankrupt within a month? You’ll have tons of people getting operations and dental care and what not worth tens or hundreds of thousands of dollars when they’ve paid in only hundreds themselves. Is the government plan to funnel enough taxpayers to them as government beneficiaries to make up the difference? How is this supposed to work? I’ve heard nothing about it. ---
**Author:** ![Orbifold](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/779978/32.png) [@Orbifold](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Orbifold)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2009, 11:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/glad-to-see-the-republicans-are-still-running-congress/506648/347 "2009-08-20T23:49:21Z")
> [@PrettyVacant](#): > > But no one has proposed anything remotely resembling the British NHS. I’m not saying they have. I just find it interesting to see the inefficiency of the US system in put in such stark monetary terms. Especially compared to the NHS, which has taken a lot of ill-deserved flak in the US debate. ---
**Author:** ![athelas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/5e9695/32.png) [@athelas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/athelas)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2009, 12:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/glad-to-see-the-republicans-are-still-running-congress/506648/348 "2009-08-21T00:01:09Z")
> [@PrettyVacant](#): > > You have an election and you vote for the guy who’s ideas you like. He gets elected and then he isn’t allowed to enact the mandate the majority voted for. > > Why did you vote, and where is the democracy in all this? Obama wasn’t elected because of healthcare, but because of HOPE and CHANGE. And a lot of the new Democrats in Congress are Blue Dogs representing relatively conservative districts and therefore obviously won’t be as liberal as the party leaders. A simple red-blue map doesn’t represent the ideological balance. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2009, 12:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/glad-to-see-the-republicans-are-still-running-congress/506648/349 "2009-08-21T00:37:32Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > That would be because Americans wouldn’t be getting the immediate, high-quality care that most of them are getting presently… I ran this through my Radio Shark Snarkometer, and there isn’t a hint of irony in this. No, I checked the batteries, did a calibration test, it works. Nope, he means it, every word. ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2009, 1:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/glad-to-see-the-republicans-are-still-running-congress/506648/350 "2009-08-21T01:10:25Z")
Yup, I damn sure do. Seems like every friend, relative or neighbor I’ve known who needed an operation, scan or test, dental work or meds got just what they needed…and in a timely fashion too! Oh, sure, sometimes they had to pay a bit more than they were expecting, but they got their care and it was superb. Saved some of their lives, it did, and other times it merely retained or restored quality of life. But damn it, I keep forgetting that I live in this special little **Starving Artist** bubble of wonderment where everything I experience or have first-hand knowledge of is completely outside the norm of American life, and therefore always counts for nought. My apologies. ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2009, 1:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/glad-to-see-the-republicans-are-still-running-congress/506648/351 "2009-08-21T01:28:52Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > Yup, I damn sure do. Seems like every friend, relative or neighbor I’ve known who needed an operation, scan or test, dental work or meds got just what they needed…and in a timely fashion too! > > Oh, sure, sometimes they had to pay a bit more than they were expecting, but they got their care and it was superb. Saved some of their lives, it did, and other times it merely retained or restored quality of life. > > But damn it, I keep forgetting that I live in this special little **Starving Artist** bubble of wonderment where everything I experience or have first-hand knowledge of is completely outside the norm of American life, and therefore always counts for nought. > > My apologies. No, you just have low standards. And you’re stupid. Might be some kind of connection there… ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2009, 1:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/glad-to-see-the-republicans-are-still-running-congress/506648/352 "2009-08-21T01:37:12Z")
I know Lobohan is a word meaning mindless dolt, but I forget the dialect. It’s obcure but pinpoint accurate nonetheless. Perhaps you could help with the origin? ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2009, 1:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/glad-to-see-the-republicans-are-still-running-congress/506648/353 "2009-08-21T01:57:07Z")
> [@Rand\_Rover](#): > > Or, they demonstrate that they just have a different idea of what’s best for the country. What idea would that be? They said it had to be fixed . They have offered zero programs. They are doing a Nancy Reagan, they just say no. ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2009, 2:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/glad-to-see-the-republicans-are-still-running-congress/506648/354 "2009-08-21T02:03:29Z")
> [@Rand\_Rover](#): > > Or, they demonstrate that they just have a different idea of what’s best for the country. What idea would that be? They said it had to be fixed . They have offered zero programs. They are doing a Nancy Reagan, they just say no. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Tao\_s\_Revenge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/73ab20/32.png) [@The\_Tao\_s\_Revenge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Tao_s_Revenge)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2009, 2:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/glad-to-see-the-republicans-are-still-running-congress/506648/355 "2009-08-21T02:04:07Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > Yup, I damn sure do. Seems like every friend, relative or neighbor I’ve known who needed an operation, scan or test, dental work or meds got just what they needed…and in a timely fashion too! > > Oh, sure, sometimes they had to pay a bit more than they were expecting, but they got their care and it was superb. Saved some of their lives, it did, and other times it merely retained or restored quality of life. > > But damn it, I keep forgetting that I live in this special little **Starving Artist** bubble of wonderment where everything I experience or have first-hand knowledge of is completely outside the norm of American life, and therefore always counts for nought. > > My apologies. Now lets say your friends had an expensive pre-existing condition, say an inherited kidney disorder, and were denied insurance. How might that work out for them? ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2009, 2:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/glad-to-see-the-republicans-are-still-running-congress/506648/356 "2009-08-21T02:08:38Z")
UHC is not a single-issue question, you know. Bearing that in mind, I addressed that question [here](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=11467735&postcount=85). ---
**Author:** ![Orbifold](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/779978/32.png) [@Orbifold](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Orbifold)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2009, 2:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/glad-to-see-the-republicans-are-still-running-congress/506648/357 "2009-08-21T02:16:48Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > Yup, I damn sure do. Seems like every friend, relative or neighbor I’ve known who needed an operation, scan or test, dental work or meds got just what they needed…and in a timely fashion too! > > Oh, sure, sometimes they had to pay a bit more than they were expecting, but they got their care and it was superb. Saved some of their lives, it did, and other times it merely retained or restored quality of life. Of course, I can say _the exact same thing_, just without the “sometimes they had to pay a bit more than they were expecting” bit. Except for those times when I lived in the United States; I definitely have to put that bit back for those periods of my life. Orbifold, who was born in Canada and yet somehow is still alive, and who currently lives in Australia, where government-provided health insurance seems to co-exist with private insurers without driving private insurers out of business. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2009, 2:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/glad-to-see-the-republicans-are-still-running-congress/506648/358 "2009-08-21T02:21:48Z")
So, those stories about people being unfairly thrown off by insurance companies, like this one: [http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/07102009/profile.html](http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/07102009/profile.html) They’re all lying? Or what, exactly? That sworn testimony before Congress, similar stories abound, they’re all making shit up in a plot to embarass insurance companies? You think? Wait, is it just a few isolated stories on the internet, and some random sworn testimony, wildly exaggerated, and really, the insurance companies have our best interests at heart and are doing a heck of a job? Is that the one? ---
**Author:** ![Blalron](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/35a633/32.png) [@Blalron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blalron)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2009, 2:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/glad-to-see-the-republicans-are-still-running-congress/506648/359 "2009-08-21T02:29:09Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > I submit it’s almost impossible at this stage to say what the true costs of UHC would be, particularly after the cycle completes and the left manages to bring everyone under its cumbersome, ill-funded (as Canada and the UK are beginning to acknowledge regarding their systems) umbrella. I keep hearing comparisons with Canada and the UK, but that’s not neccesarily an accurate comparison, especially if the “public option” gets removed from the final bill. It’s likely we will end up being [more like](http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=92106731) Switzerland instead. > [@NPR](#): > > At first glance, Switzerland’s health care system looks like it could be the perfect political compromise for the United States. > > As Republicans would prefer, individuals — not employers or the government — choose from a broad array of health plans, sold by private insurance companies. > > And as Democrats urge, everyone in Switzerland has health coverage (it’s required by law), with the government providing generous subsidies for those who couldn’t otherwise afford it. ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2009, 2:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/glad-to-see-the-republicans-are-still-running-congress/506648/360 "2009-08-21T02:35:07Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > I know Lobohan is a word meaning mindless dolt, but I forget the dialect. It’s obcure but pinpoint accurate nonetheless. Perhaps you could help with the origin? It’s a Yiddish word meaning to _vigorously throb_. And _Mindless Dolt_? Are you a Victorian that was trapped in ice for a hundred years? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/glad-to-see-the-republicans-are-still-running-congress/506648.md?page=17) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/glad-to-see-the-republicans-are-still-running-congress/506648.md?page=19)