# Glad to see the Republicans are still running Congress **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [August 16, 2009, 7:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/glad-to-see-the-republicans-are-still-running-congress/506648 "2009-08-16T19:38:49Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2009, 3:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/glad-to-see-the-republicans-are-still-running-congress/506648/121 "2009-08-17T15:41:32Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > How do you account for the fairly obvious fact that all the other industrialized democracies that have had UHC in one form or another for a long time are still free countries, and **not** totalitarian socialist countries? He’s made it clear in other threads that he thinks they _are_. ---
**Author:** ![tacoloco](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7993a0/32.png) [@tacoloco](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tacoloco)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2009, 3:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/glad-to-see-the-republicans-are-still-running-congress/506648/122 "2009-08-17T15:42:21Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > You cannot claim it’s relevant when it supports you and meaningless when it does not. Agreed. I don’t put much faith in people understanding the issues and taking rational, well considered points of view. I’m even less trustful of polls alleging to measure people support for things. The one thing political parties are really good at is spreading FUD. And Americans are all too willing to swallow the FUD without even so much as a thought given to perhaps taking a critical look at it. That “Obama broke is oath” guy from last week is a perfect example. He was completely clueless on the real issues and perfectly willing to allow himself to be a pawn to the right wing Obama FUD. And while that was a right wing example, I’m sure if I looked around I could find comparable left wing FUD. If Obama’s health care plan is really losing support, it isn’t because most people have take a critical look at the plan, but because the right has cranked up the bullshit machine. People who voted for Obama would do well to remember that a central theme in his campaign was health care reform and not be swayed by the bullshit machine. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2009, 3:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/glad-to-see-the-republicans-are-still-running-congress/506648/123 "2009-08-17T15:45:53Z")
> [@tacoloco](#): > > …People who voted for Obama would do well to remember that a central theme in his campaign was health care reform and not be swayed by the bullshit machine. And those who didn’t might well be reminded that he won. Handily. ---
**Author:** ![RitterSport](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rittersport/32/6326_2.png) [@RitterSport](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RitterSport)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2009, 3:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/glad-to-see-the-republicans-are-still-running-congress/506648/124 "2009-08-17T15:46:33Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Frankly, I believe proponents of the UHC plans have vastly understated the costs reasonably expected to be incurred by the plan. But, why do you believe this? Our health insurance “system” is \*\*MORE \*\* expensive than other wealthy countries, most (all?) of which have UHC in one for or another. Are we just less competant than the French, British, Canadians, Swiss, Germans, Japanese, and so on, so our bumbling attempts at UHC will, by the nature of our incompetance, be more expensive? It doesn’t make sense to me – we’re _more_ productive than those countries when it comes to all the rest. Why can’t we be more productive and more efficient than them when it comes to healthcare? ---
**Author:** ![tnetennba](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7993a0/32.png) [@tnetennba](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tnetennba)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2009, 3:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/glad-to-see-the-republicans-are-still-running-congress/506648/125 "2009-08-17T15:46:39Z")
Well, bricker responded kinder than I deserved, but there’s an important oversight, which is that I myself never once referred to opinion polls as supporting my position. My position is based on reasion, ethics, and imagination, not opinion polls. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Tooth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c67d28/32.png) [@The\_Tooth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Tooth)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2009, 3:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/glad-to-see-the-republicans-are-still-running-congress/506648/126 "2009-08-17T15:47:28Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > He’s made it clear in other threads that he thinks they _are_. Pretty ineffectual totalitarian regimes at that. We haven’t managed to imprison nearly as many Canadians as you have Americans because we’ve become slack in our freedom-hating. ---
**Author:** ![athelas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/5e9695/32.png) [@athelas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/athelas)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2009, 3:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/glad-to-see-the-republicans-are-still-running-congress/506648/127 "2009-08-17T15:47:46Z")
From the AP: > [@](#): > > Facing mounting opposition to the overhaul, administration officials left open the chance for a compromise with Republicans that would include health insurance cooperatives instead of a government-run plan. Such a concession probably would enrage Obama’s liberal supporters but could deliver a much-needed victory on a top domestic priority opposed by GOP lawmakers. > > Under a proposal by Sen. Kent Conrad, D-N.D., consumer-owned nonprofit cooperatives would sell insurance in competition with private industry, not unlike the way electric and agriculture co-ops operate, especially in rural states such as his own. > > Obama’s spokesman refused to say a public option was a make-or-break choice. “What I am saying is the bottom line for this for the president is, what we have to have is **choice and competition** in the insurance market,” White House press secretary Robert Gibbs said Sunday. I’m pretty sure this will turn out to be the same thing in new packaging, either by design or by effect. These government co-ops will likely need an endless series of bailouts to stay solvent, and I expect Obama knows that once created, they won’t be permitted to fail. Except they will lack direct accountability. Mmmm . . . where have we seen this before? Oh, yeah: the [GSEs](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Government-sponsored_enterprise). I imagine the Left is in stitches at the appropriation of McCain’s words from last Fall to mean almost the exact opposite of what he meant. ---
**Author:** ![tnetennba](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7993a0/32.png) [@tnetennba](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tnetennba)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2009, 3:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/glad-to-see-the-republicans-are-still-running-congress/506648/128 "2009-08-17T15:47:51Z")
I’m also disgusted with people who demand UHC NOW!!! and are quick to abandon Obama because it’s not easy to pass it. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2009, 3:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/glad-to-see-the-republicans-are-still-running-congress/506648/129 "2009-08-17T15:55:31Z")
Some blame attaches, however. It seems that the Obama folks figured on having a sensible and reasonable debate, with some bi-partisan give and take. For those of us to the left of Obama, it was clear that Big Money would fight this thing like a rabid velociraptor, there would be no reasonable debate because reason would not be permitted, we were carrying a Nerf bat to a knife fight. We are gravely in error when we overestimate the humanity and sanity of our opposition. ---
**Author:** ![Kearsen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/82dd89/32.png) [@Kearsen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kearsen)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2009, 3:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/glad-to-see-the-republicans-are-still-running-congress/506648/130 "2009-08-17T15:55:58Z")
One simple thing would sway me into accepting the government run healthcare. One simple thing. Congress and The President joyfully join the healthcare user list. In my honest opinion, they shouldn’t get to decide what ‘the people’ NEED if they aren’t willing to accept the same. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2009, 3:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/glad-to-see-the-republicans-are-still-running-congress/506648/131 "2009-08-17T15:58:52Z")
I would also like a wife so hot she scorches footprints in the sidewalk when she barefoots! But, I’m willing to compromise… (What, dear? Me? Oh, nothing, just some posting, nothing really. So, tell me about your day!..) ---
**Author:** ![Blalron](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/35a633/32.png) [@Blalron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blalron)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2009, 4:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/glad-to-see-the-republicans-are-still-running-congress/506648/132 "2009-08-17T16:25:20Z")
> [@Kearsen](#): > > Congress and The President joyfully join the healthcare user list. > > In my honest opinion, they shouldn’t get to decide what ‘the people’ NEED if they aren’t willing to accept the same. From what I understand, the President and Congress are on the Federal Employee Health Benefits Plan. I would be thrilled if everyone in this country was on it. ---
**Author:** ![Kearsen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/82dd89/32.png) [@Kearsen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kearsen)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2009, 4:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/glad-to-see-the-republicans-are-still-running-congress/506648/133 "2009-08-17T16:25:56Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > I would also like a wife so hot she scorches footprints in the sidewalk when she barefoots! But, I’m willing to compromise… > > (What, dear? Me? Oh, nothing, just some posting, nothing really. So, tell me about your day!..) How is that at all comparable? Did you choose your wife? ---
**Author:** ![Kearsen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/82dd89/32.png) [@Kearsen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kearsen)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2009, 4:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/glad-to-see-the-republicans-are-still-running-congress/506648/134 "2009-08-17T16:27:35Z")
> [@Blalron](#): > > From what I understand, the President and Congress are on the Federal Employee Health Benefits Plan. I would be thrilled if everyone in this country was on it. I agree, the plan that they have is (allegedly) doing fantastic. However the sheer cost magnitude of this magnanimous plan they have is outrageous. It is also ‘privately run’ and they operate it like a business with market competition. The government couldn’t do it. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2009, 4:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/glad-to-see-the-republicans-are-still-running-congress/506648/135 "2009-08-17T16:29:15Z")
Damn, you beat that joke to death like a baby seal. Ok with you if I have a bit of fun, every now and again? ---
**Author:** ![Kearsen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/82dd89/32.png) [@Kearsen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kearsen)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2009, 4:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/glad-to-see-the-republicans-are-still-running-congress/506648/136 "2009-08-17T16:31:34Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > Damn, you beat that joke to death like a baby seal. Ok with you if I have a bit of fun, every now and again? Have all the fun you want. Please do so at your own expense. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2009, 4:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/glad-to-see-the-republicans-are-still-running-congress/506648/137 "2009-08-17T16:37:39Z")
Nah, you’re too good a target, and have a snotty attitude to boot. Can’t resist. For instance: > [@](#): > > I agree, the plan that they have is (allegedly) doing fantastic. However the sheer cost magnitude of this magnanimous plan they have is outrageous. It is also ‘privately run’ and they operate it like a business with market competition. The government couldn’t do it. By my count, four bald assertions without so much as a hint of substantiation. Comedy gold! ---
**Author:** ![Merijeek](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f05b48/32.png) [@Merijeek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merijeek)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2009, 4:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/glad-to-see-the-republicans-are-still-running-congress/506648/138 "2009-08-17T16:38:59Z")
> [@cricetus](#): > > I’m also disgusted with people who demand UHC NOW!!! and are quick to abandon Obama because it’s not easy to pass it. No, the problem is that Obama sure as hell doesn’t seem to be putting any muscle into it. If this is going to be the biggest, most important thing he’s going to do in his term(s), maybe he should actually put some effort into it. During the campaign he was nearly flawless at steering the narrative when it veered in directions that he didn’t like. Now he’s not even trying. -Joe ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2009, 5:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/glad-to-see-the-republicans-are-still-running-congress/506648/139 "2009-08-17T17:09:46Z")
> [@Merijeek](#): > > During the campaign he was nearly flawless at steering the narrative when it veered in directions that he didn’t like. Now he’s not even trying. Now he has to actually do something besides talk. I seem to remember some discussion a few months back concerning relative levels of experience in leadership amongst the various candidates. I thought the consensus on the SDMB was that running a campaign was all the experience a President needed. Maybe he will do better in the next six months. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Rand\_Rover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/db5fbb/32.png) [@Rand\_Rover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rand_Rover)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2009, 5:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/glad-to-see-the-republicans-are-still-running-congress/506648/140 "2009-08-17T17:15:48Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > We are gravely in error when we overestimate the humanity and sanity of our opposition. Right, because those who disagree with you on the role of the government are inhuman and insane. And you have the temerity to say that it is the anti-UHC folks who are not being rational and reasonable. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/glad-to-see-the-republicans-are-still-running-congress/506648.md?page=6) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/glad-to-see-the-republicans-are-still-running-congress/506648.md?page=8)