# Gladiator and Queer Girafes **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [December 11, 2000, 6:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gladiator-and-queer-girafes/45050 "2000-12-11T18:31:29Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 7\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Diane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/2acd7d/32.png) [@Diane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diane)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2000, 1:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gladiator-and-queer-girafes/45050/21 "2000-12-12T13:54:53Z")
> [@](#): > > I’m sorry, I don’t see anything in this context that suggests the ‘homosexual’ interpretation of ‘queer’. I don’t remember the exact lines in the movie, but if I interpreted things correctly the giraffes were supposed to be mating giraffes but all they did was walk around, hence the queer complaint by the trader. DRY, you are a darling, but I am a little saddened by the Shakespearean quote that seems to be missing in your flirt. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![astorian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ad7895/32.png) [@astorian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astorian)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2000, 2:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gladiator-and-queer-girafes/45050/22 "2000-12-12T14:00:45Z")
Why single out the word “queer” as anachronistic? NOBODY in ancient Rome spoke English, so EVERY word used by EVERY character in the film “Gladiator” was technically incorrect. True, no ancient Roman would have used the word queer… but no ancient Roman would use the words “a,” “an” or “the” either- there are no articles in Latin. So… unless you think the movie should have been shot in Latin and shown with subtitles, it’s hard to see what your problem is! ---
**Author:** ![JeffB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jeffb/32/188_2.png) [@JeffB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JeffB)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2000, 3:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gladiator-and-queer-girafes/45050/23 "2000-12-12T15:08:24Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Mandelstam \* > In any case, the place you should look is the _Oxford English Dictionary_. This will give you a complete etymology of the word including the first time the word was used and how it changed since that time. It’s actually a lot of fun to read it. You can find it at a good library, certainly any college or university library. It also exists online but it’s not free; usually you have to be at a place (like a college library) that provides you with access to it. Ask and ye shall receive. OED says _queer_ is commonly thought of coming from the German _quer_ (MHG _twer_) but says it is “of doubtful origin” because time frames and usage don’t quite match. The first cite for the primary meaning of “strange, odd” is from 1508 (Dunbar). The first cite for the meaning “homosexual” is from 1922 (from _Practical Value of Scientific Study of Junvenile Deliquents_). The usage in this case puts queer in quotes, indicating it was alread in use, probably as slang. The first cite for the meaning “to be fond of” is from 1953 (Burroughs), putting **Johnny L.A.**'s theory into doubt. There is also a definition of queer meaning “not in a normal condition; out of sorts; giddy, faint, or ill” first cited in 1781. There is also a second entry for _queer_ meaning “bad; worthless” with first cite in 1561. This usage seems to have lead to the idea of something being counterfeit (“queer money”). The first cite for _queer_ as a noun meaning a homosexual man is 1932 (Auden). The first cite for _queerdom_ is 1965. As a verb, the first entry for _queer_ is “a. To quiz or ridicule; to puzzle. b. To impose on, swindle, cheat” with first cite in 1790. The second entry is “to spoil” (as in “to queer the pitch/game/deal”) with the first cite in 1846. So, after all that, we don’t know where the word _queer_ came from or why it first was used to mean “homosexual.” My guess would be it came from the usage of “odd, not normal.” As to the giraffes, they were supposed to be mating giraffes, so the implication was that they did not mate because they were homosexual. ---
**Author:** ![Diane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/2acd7d/32.png) [@Diane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diane)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2000, 3:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gladiator-and-queer-girafes/45050/24 "2000-12-12T15:27:17Z")
> [@](#): > > So… unless you think the movie should have been shot in Latin and shown with subtitles, it’s hard to see what your problem is! Problem? No, but you seem to have one (reading maybe?). I guess you missed the part where I posted: > [@](#): > > I read the link but my giraffe question was not mentioned. **I do realize that English wasn’t spoken in ancient Rome** (ya smartass ). > > Let me ask a different way. > > **When was the word “queer” first used to mean homosexual? Has it been around since ancient times?** Thank you JeffB, Mandelstam, and bibliophage for actually understanding and answering my question. ---
**Author:** ![Grendel69](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/7bcc69/32.png) [@Grendel69](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grendel69)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2000, 3:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gladiator-and-queer-girafes/45050/25 "2000-12-12T15:30:46Z")
DRY: I am actually reading secondary sources and they critique Suetonius for those reasons. ---
**Author:** ![Irishman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/b487fb/32.png) [@Irishman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Irishman)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2000, 5:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gladiator-and-queer-girafes/45050/26 "2000-12-12T17:19:27Z")
The problem is the giraffes are supposed to be a mating pair. The guy is complaining that they won’t mate. All they do is walk around. Thus they are queer. Which is supposed to imply they are gay, but could have just meant they are strange. ---
**Author:** ![DRY](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a87d85/32.png) [@DRY](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DRY)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2000, 6:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gladiator-and-queer-girafes/45050/27 "2000-12-13T06:08:55Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Diane \* > **DRY, you are a darling, but I am a little saddened by the Shakespearean quote that seems to be missing in your flirt. 😉** FINE! FINE! “It is my lady, O, it is my love! O, that she knew she were! She speaks yet she says nothing: what of that? Her eye discourses; I will answer it. I am too bold, 'tis not to me she speaks: Two of the fairest stars in all the heaven, Having some business, do entreat her eyes To twinkle in their spheres till they return. What if her eyes were there, they in her head? The brightness of her cheek would shame those stars, As daylight doth a lamp; her eyes in heaven Would through the airy region stream so bright That birds would sing and think it were not night. See, how she leans her cheek upon her hand! O, that I were a glove upon that hand, That I might touch that cheek!” –Romeo and Juliet, Act 2, Scene ii [sub]Sorry about the hijack, guys, but if YOU would turn down a flirting opportunity with Diane, you must be quee…homosexual. Not that there’s anything wrong with that.[/sub] > [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Grendel69 \* > \*\*DRY: I am actually reading secondary sources and they critique Suetonius for those reasons. \*\* Interesting. Which sources, if I may ask? (I’m always interested if there’s anything newly published that I haven’t heard about) Fairness compels me to point out that there were certainly weaknesses in other contemporary sources (Tacitus, to name one). [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gladiator-and-queer-girafes/45050.md?page=1)