# Glasnost Mafia **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [February 17, 2011, 11:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/glasnost-mafia/571757 "2011-02-17T23:58:11Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 19
**Author:** ![Astral\_Rejection](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/258eb7/32.png) [@Astral\_Rejection](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Astral_Rejection)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2011, 12:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/glasnost-mafia/571757/361 "2011-02-25T00:54:27Z")
> [@special\_ed](#): > > are you sure? > > :eek: That cracked me up. šŸ˜ƒ ---
**Author:** ![Zeriel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/58956e/32.png) [@Zeriel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zeriel)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2011, 1:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/glasnost-mafia/571757/362 "2011-02-25T01:02:16Z")
> [@Pleonast](#): > > IYes, itā€™s not deserving a vote. Words are cheap. Actions have meaning. Voting for players based purely on what theyā€™ve said discourages players from talking. Thatā€™s all fine and good, and Iā€™d agree with you more on, say, Day Twoā€“when we HAVE some actions to go on. Itā€™s Day One, and literally all we have is words. Your statement above is functionally equivalent to ā€œnever vote for anyone on Day One, because no one has done anything yet, and words are cheapā€. Which goes (via Reductio ad Absurdum Lane) to not voting on Day Two, either, since no one has taken any actions in not voting on Day One, and so on, until we all lose. Or, as an alternate hole in your theory: Your vanilla claim was an action. You either gave up information that will help the scum for no return whatsoever, or you lied. Neither are behaviors I want to encourage. ---
**Author:** ![Mahaloth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mahaloth/32/1079_2.png) [@Mahaloth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mahaloth)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2011, 1:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/glasnost-mafia/571757/363 "2011-02-25T01:07:56Z")
> [@Red\_Skeezix](#): > > Day 1 will end in just under 24 hours. I thought it already ended. [The Day clock](http://timeanddate.com/counters/customcounter.html?month=02&day=24&year=2011&hour=19&min=00&sec=00&p0=179) ---
**Author:** ![Astral\_Rejection](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/258eb7/32.png) [@Astral\_Rejection](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Astral_Rejection)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2011, 1:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/glasnost-mafia/571757/364 "2011-02-25T01:19:53Z")
> [@Mahaloth](#): > > I thought it already ended. > > [The Day clock](http://timeanddate.com/counters/customcounter.html?month=02&day=24&year=2011&hour=19&min=00&sec=00&p0=179) Yeah, I thought it should have too. 21, 22, 23, 24ā€¦ 4 days, ending today. ---
**Author:** ![Mahaloth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mahaloth/32/1079_2.png) [@Mahaloth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mahaloth)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2011, 1:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/glasnost-mafia/571757/365 "2011-02-25T01:20:14Z")
Nevermind. I missed the announcement about the date change, I guess. ---
**Author:** ![special\_ed](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5ac83/32.png) [@special\_ed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/special_ed)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2011, 1:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/glasnost-mafia/571757/366 "2011-02-25T01:20:57Z")
> [@Astral\_Rejection](#): > > Yeah, I thought it should have too. 21, 22, 23, 24ā€¦ 4 days, ending today. But when you start on the 21st, the 24th is only 3 days laterā€¦ ---
**Author:** ![Mahaloth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mahaloth/32/1079_2.png) [@Mahaloth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mahaloth)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2011, 1:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/glasnost-mafia/571757/367 "2011-02-25T01:21:17Z")
> [@Astral\_Rejection](#): > > Yeah, I thought it should have too. 21, 22, 23, 24ā€¦ 4 days, ending today. Thatā€™s what I thought. ---
**Author:** ![special\_ed](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5ac83/32.png) [@special\_ed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/special_ed)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2011, 1:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/glasnost-mafia/571757/368 "2011-02-25T01:22:05Z")
> [@mahaloth](#): > > nevermind. I missed the announcement about the date change, i guess. **skimmer!!** ---
**Author:** ![Mahaloth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mahaloth/32/1079_2.png) [@Mahaloth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mahaloth)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2011, 1:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/glasnost-mafia/571757/369 "2011-02-25T01:30:49Z")
> [@special\_ed](#): > > **skimmer!!** Hey, donā€™t lowercase my writing! šŸ™‚ ---
**Author:** ![special\_ed](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5ac83/32.png) [@special\_ed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/special_ed)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2011, 1:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/glasnost-mafia/571757/370 "2011-02-25T01:38:41Z")
> [@Mahaloth](#): > > Hey, donā€™t lowercase my writing! šŸ™‚ how the heck did that happen? ---
**Author:** ![Astral\_Rejection](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/258eb7/32.png) [@Astral\_Rejection](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Astral_Rejection)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2011, 1:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/glasnost-mafia/571757/371 "2011-02-25T01:54:47Z")
> [@special\_ed](#): > > But when you start on the 21st, the 24th is only 3 days laterā€¦ Days are 4 days in length, not one day and then 4 more days. ---
**Author:** ![special\_ed](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5ac83/32.png) [@special\_ed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/special_ed)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2011, 2:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/glasnost-mafia/571757/372 "2011-02-25T02:02:46Z")
> [@Astral\_Rejection](#): > > Days are 4 days in length, not one day and then 4 more days. OK, OK But let me as you this. 7:00 PM on the 21st to 7:00 PM on the 22nd, is only 24 hours = 1 day 7:00 PM on the 21st to 7:00 PM on the 23rd, is only 48 hours = 2 days 7:00 PM on the 21st to 7:00 PM on the 24th, is only 24 hours = 3 days 7:00 PM on the 21st to 7:00 PM on the 25th, is only 24 hours = 4 days 25-21=4 24-21=3 ---
**Author:** ![special\_ed](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5ac83/32.png) [@special\_ed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/special_ed)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2011, 2:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/glasnost-mafia/571757/373 "2011-02-25T02:03:50Z")
or ask. I could ask. Of course, if I were asking, one would expect a question, no? ---
**Author:** ![Drain\_Bead](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e47774/32.png) [@Drain\_Bead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Drain_Bead)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2011, 2:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/glasnost-mafia/571757/374 "2011-02-25T02:04:53Z")
21st to 22nd is one day. 22nd to 23rd is two. 23rd to 24th is 3. 24th to 25th is 4. **storyteller** got exactly where I was getting at with my last line of questioning, which I know was a while ago. Every single person here is responsible for other peopleā€™s gameplay. The words we use (and the strategies we employ) are not occurring in a vacuum. You have to be aware of how other people are going to react to your words, because itā€™s just as important to avoid getting lynched (and this is the case whether youā€™re Town, Scum, or Bomber) as it is to find and lynch Scum. Because in the end, the vast majority of us are trying to find and lynch Scum, and if you play in a way that will invite disagreement and noise up the thread, youā€™re going to get votes. And if **Pleonast** is who he claims he is, itā€™s a damned shame that his principles will end up screwing the rest of us. People are mentioning that **peeker** is making sense more than usual. Part of me thinks that **peeker** has changed his gameplay in response to the reactions heā€™s gotten throughout many games. **Meeko** played similarly well in the Hotel of Heroes game as well. Eventually, most players start to get it and learn how to play in a way that doesnā€™t end up sucking up the attention of the rest of the members of the game, because in the end itā€™s completely counterproductive. ---
**Author:** ![special\_ed](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5ac83/32.png) [@special\_ed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/special_ed)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2011, 2:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/glasnost-mafia/571757/375 "2011-02-25T02:05:40Z")
> [@special\_ed](#): > > or ask. I could ask. Of course, if I were asking, one would expect a question, no? Thatā€™s nothing compared to your copy/paste edit fail, sir ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2011, 8:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/glasnost-mafia/571757/376 "2011-02-25T08:36:37Z")
> [@special\_ed](#): > > 7:00 PM on the 21st to 7:00 PM on the 22nd, is only 24 hours = 1 day > 7:00 PM on the 21st to 7:00 PM on the 23rd, is only 48 hours = 2 days > 7:00 PM on the 21st to 7:00 PM on the 24th, is only 24 hours = 3 days > 7:00 PM on the 21st to 7:00 PM on the 25th, is only 24 hours = 4 days > > 25-21=4 > 24-21=3 [True story]I drove to a distant city in a certain country every Wednesday. I paid to join a video-rental store, and obviously found the ā€œ7 day rentalsā€ most convenient. ā€œThat will be due Tuesdayā€ I was told, confounding my intent. I asked how many days from Wednesday to Monday. ā€œThatā€™s 6 days.ā€ I started the other way: Wednesday to Thursday? ā€œ1 day.ā€ As we zeroed in on the Wednesday/Tuesday distance from two different directions, I saw eyes widening in disbelief as if one of the great paradoxes of higher math had been revealed! :smack: It didnā€™t matter. The computer assessed any late charges automatically, and it knew Wednesday to Wednesday was 7 days.[/True story] ---
**Author:** ![peekercpa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/8baadc/32.png) [@peekercpa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/peekercpa)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2011, 1:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/glasnost-mafia/571757/377 "2011-02-25T13:37:33Z")
> [@Drain\_Bead](#): > > People are mentioning that **peeker** is making sense more than usual. Part of me thinks that **peeker** has changed his gameplay in response to the reactions heā€™s gotten throughout many games. **Meeko** played similarly well in the Hotel of Heroes game as well. Eventually, most players start to get it and learn how to play in a way that doesnā€™t end up sucking up the attention of the rest of the members of the game, because in the end itā€™s completely counterproductive. \ iā€™ll go ahead and address this since it seems like the second time it has been brought up. maybe i have gotten soft or just lazy in my old age. but to some extent i have tried to tone it down in response to multiple games i got lynched because i was a ā€œdistractionā€ or acting in an anti town manner. now do i think that justified, nope. but it was none the less a reality. and being town in the majority of these games i came to the conclusion that what i thought was being helpful was ultimately hurting my team by getting my scrawny ass lynched (there may be some sort of analogy here). additionally, i have been playing a LOT of these games recently. as a result i probably post the same amount but it is spread over two and even sometimes three games. additionally, since i just check back every now and then it seems like the obvious observations have already been made. i donā€™t really see the benefit of rehashing or rewording them. and since the herd mentality seems to frown on ā€œme tooā€ types of posts i just donā€™t make them. even though if someone makes a compelling enough argument the whole bunch should be clamoring ā€œme tooā€ giving props to the person who thought it rather than using it as a basis for frowning of folks subsequently agreeing - go figure. and just as an aside if you are a Christian it was three days from friday till sunday. so the fourth day certainly could have been yesterday rather than today but it would almost assuredly not be tomorrow or the day after (does that help, **tom**?). ---
**Author:** ![Pleonast](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pleonast/32/1183_2.png) [@Pleonast](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pleonast)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2011, 3:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/glasnost-mafia/571757/378 "2011-02-25T15:10:31Z")
> [@Pleonast](#): > > > [@sachertorte](#): > > > > Oh that. > > At least I havenā€™t managed to inadvertently call Pleonast stupid. > > Hi Storyteller šŸ˜‰ > > > > Actually, Iā€™ve seriously debated voting for Pleonast. The problem is if I did so it would be tactically incorrect for this game and would be _purely for punitive reasons_. Iā€™m \>\>this\<\< close to doing it anyway though. > > (1) With a lack of anything else WTF right? > > (2) In the continuum of games it makes a statement. Part of me wants to lynch Pleonast EVERY time he pulls stuff like this (yes, Iā€™m feeling vindictive today, why do you ask?) in the hope that he will eventually stop. In otherwords, it might be tactically wrong for this game, but for the sanity of future games, it might be worth it. > > > > As tempting as voting for Pleonast would be. Iā€™d rather re-read and find something else shiny. But that will have to wait for the morning. > > The problem with punitive voting is that it puts me in the position of choosing between collecting votes or playing scummy. I refuse to do the latter, so Iā€™m forced to accept the former. If you want me to change my tactics, youā€™ll need address what my tactics actually are, instead of the caricature youā€™ve been objecting to. > > Part of the problem is my failure to describe my thoughts well. If you want to vote for me for muddled explanations, so be it. Next game, Iā€™ll still be describing and voting for what I think is scummy behavior. Maybe Iā€™ll explain better then. > > But surely part of the problem is others looking to score rhetorical points against me rather than engage in discussion. That helps put votes on me, but does nothing to change my mind when what youā€™re arguing against is not what I think Iā€™m doing. Iā€™m disappointed. I write a heartfelt explanation laying out my motivations. And get no response at all. ā˜¹ ---
**Author:** ![Mahaloth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mahaloth/32/1079_2.png) [@Mahaloth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mahaloth)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2011, 4:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/glasnost-mafia/571757/379 "2011-02-25T16:08:46Z")
> [@Manwich](#): > > Mahaloth, can you explain why you didnā€™t completely explain your reasons for voting Wolverine until your 4th post about him? At first I (and others) thought you were accusing him of deliberately trying to lull the town into a false sense of security, but eventually you explained you thought it was a scum-type mistake. Can you explain how a scummy Wolverine makes him likely to have made his mistake? Why is the case is against you ā€œlazy and easyā€ but your case against Wolverine a decent day one vote? I really donā€™t think you have adequately explained your reasoning, and I would like to hear more. 1. I disagree with your assertion that I didnā€™t explain it until my 4th post about him. 2. I thought it was obvious. Scum know that the other non-scums are town(or the bomber, of course), so they would be able to know that a townie that claims ā€œarise chicken blah blahā€ was indeed town. 3. My case against him is not super strongā€¦and it is also not where my vote is currently. It is not, however, lazy at all. I explained it. 4. Idleā€™s vote/case on me is exceedingly lazy and his drop in/drop out method of voting just because I was the 2nd to vote Wolverine is the most scummy thing Iā€™ve seen todayā€¦and where my vote is now. I think Iā€™ve said all this already, Manwich. Why do you need to hear more? And why are so many of you not concerned with Idleā€™s play in this game? I get the chaos around Pleonast, but I am surprised more players donā€™t see the scumminess of Idleā€™s Day One playing. ---
**Author:** ![peekercpa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/8baadc/32.png) [@peekercpa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/peekercpa)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2011, 4:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/glasnost-mafia/571757/380 "2011-02-25T16:24:17Z")
> [@Pleonast](#): > > Iā€™m disappointed. I write a heartfelt explanation laying out my motivations. And get no response at all. ā˜¹ iā€™ll try to explain although you typically characterize my posts as being ā€œindecipherableā€. maybe your motives are pure. but a bunch of folks donā€™t agree. now does that make them right and you wrong, certainly not. but if all you accomplish is to alienate a certain subset and then another subset goes, meh, i am unsure what good is done. now i didnā€™t vote you for your claim because thatā€™s just noise to me. and i didnā€™t vote you because of your ā€œpolicyā€, although i think it hooey. i voted for you for doing the same durn thing that you said you were tyring to discourage. that is, namely not voting for someone because they are suspicous or muddying the waters by voting not based on suspicion but from some other motive that can not be easily discerned. since then you have nothing to change my opinion. i certainly understand the value of getting folks talking in order to create data points. but if it merely devolves into some sort of debate about the relative merits of competing viewpoints i am not sure that anything positive from a town standpoint has been achieved. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/glasnost-mafia/571757.md?page=18) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/glasnost-mafia/571757.md?page=20)