# Glasnost Mafia **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [February 17, 2011, 11:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/glasnost-mafia/571757 "2011-02-17T23:58:11Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 20
**Author:** ![Pleonast](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pleonast/32/1183_2.png) [@Pleonast](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pleonast)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2011, 5:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/glasnost-mafia/571757/381 "2011-02-25T17:00:08Z")
> [@peekercpa](#): > > now i didn’t vote you for your claim because that’s just noise to me. and i didn’t vote you because of your “policy”, although i think it hooey. i voted for you for doing the same durn thing that you said you were tyring to discourage. that is, namely not voting for someone because they are suspicous or muddying the waters by voting not based on suspicion but from some other motive that can not be easily discerned. since then you have nothing to change my opinion. I disagree with the particulars of your vote, but your general reason is pro-town, unlike the ones I’ve complained about. I can’t parse: _that is, namely not voting for someone because they are suspicous or muddying the waters by voting not based on suspicion but from some other motive that can not be easily discerned._ ---
**Author:** ![Mahaloth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mahaloth/32/1079_2.png) [@Mahaloth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mahaloth)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2011, 5:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/glasnost-mafia/571757/382 "2011-02-25T17:04:33Z")
I actually agree with Pleo that the case on him is more about disagreement than scumminess. I used to get on Pleo a lot about his policy stuff, but it has never been an indicator of scum. If he’s scum, I’ll be happy that the rest of you voted to lynch him, but it will mainly be a luck lynch(which, hey, is really good for a Day 1 result). Pleo, we just think you are wrong. My vote isn’t even on you and I think you are wrong. Wrong about the frequently Day 1 claim(which you did NOT do in Hotel of Heroes for some reason). Wrong about self-saving votes being a bad Town move. That’s what it comes down to. ---
**Author:** ![Pleonast](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pleonast/32/1183_2.png) [@Pleonast](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pleonast)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2011, 5:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/glasnost-mafia/571757/383 "2011-02-25T17:27:13Z")
> [@Mahaloth](#): > > Pleo, we just think you are wrong. My vote isn’t even on you and I think you are wrong. Wrong about the frequently Day 1 claim(which you did NOT do in Hotel of Heroes for some reason). Wrong about self-saving votes being a bad Town move. That’s what it comes down to. That’s fine. I don’t expect anyone to agree with me. Some players think mafia is a game about collective responsibility. I think it’s a game about looking for scum in a variety of ways. To each their own, but it’s rather silly to be getting votes for having a different outlook on how to play the game. They should at least wait until I actually make vote they think is scummy. You, and others, manage to separate playing strategy from alignment, why can’t some players do this as well? (I was scum that game. No point in serving wine to my own team.) ---
**Author:** ![Gadarene](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47c2d/32.png) [@Gadarene](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gadarene)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2011, 5:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/glasnost-mafia/571757/384 "2011-02-25T17:34:23Z")
_sigh_ Fine, Pleo, your continued defense of yourself has convinced me that you’re probably just a misguided townie. **unvote Pleonast** Off to see if I can find a better lynch candidate before the Day ends. ---
**Author:** ![Mahaloth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mahaloth/32/1079_2.png) [@Mahaloth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mahaloth)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2011, 5:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/glasnost-mafia/571757/385 "2011-02-25T17:34:47Z")
> [@Pleonast](#): > > (I was scum that game. No point in serving wine to my own team.) Right, so you are only claiming in games where you are actually Town? Come on. You would not have served wine to your own team, but to the Town team. Duh? 😛 ---
**Author:** ![Mahaloth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mahaloth/32/1079_2.png) [@Mahaloth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mahaloth)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2011, 5:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/glasnost-mafia/571757/386 "2011-02-25T17:36:09Z")
I’ll ask more directly, then, since it is mostly getting ignored. What do you all think of Idle? I made my case and it seems to have gained little traction. I think he is clearly playing in a way that is beneficial for scum and most of you are falling for it. ---
**Author:** ![Red\_Skeezix](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/aca169/32.png) [@Red\_Skeezix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Red_Skeezix)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2011, 5:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/glasnost-mafia/571757/387 "2011-02-25T17:43:01Z")
Sorry I missed the morning vote count, but I’m on call + snowstorm and there was some major issues that took precedence. Day 1 Vote Tally Pleonast(7) :Zeriel[162], [del]Mental Guy[187-255][/del], Drain Bead[202], [del]Gadarene[208-384][/del], [del]septimus[212-269][/del], pedescribe[216], peekercpa[230], ComeToTheDarksideWeHaveCookies[236], One and Only Wanderers[288], Tom Scud[327] Mahaloth(5) :Idle Thoughts[159], Suburban Plankton[217], Wolverine[241], Manwich[265], septimus[284] Astral Rejection(3) :guiri[269], special ed[273], sachertorte[317] septimus(1) :[del]Tom Scud[238-285][/del], Mental Guy[255] pedescribe(1) :Pleonast[240] Tom Scud(1) :Astral Rejection[266] Idle Thoughts(1) :Mahaloth[291] guiri(1) :storyteller0910[306] Wolverine(0) :[del]Zeriel[137-162][/del], [del]Mahaloth[147-291][/del] One and Only Wanderers(0) :[del]pedescribe[138-216][/del] Zeriel(0) :[del]Pleonast[240-240][/del] Mental Guy(0) :[del]Pleonast[240-240][/del] Drain Bead(0) :[del]Pleonast[240-240][/del] Gadarene(0) :[del]Pleonast[240-240][/del] Did Not Vote: With these votes Pleonast would be lynched. Day 1 will end in just about 6.25 hours, I think my brain is too addled for math right now. 7pm ET Today at any rate. ---
**Author:** ![Pleonast](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pleonast/32/1183_2.png) [@Pleonast](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pleonast)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2011, 5:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/glasnost-mafia/571757/388 "2011-02-25T17:47:25Z")
> [@Mahaloth](#): > > I’ll ask more directly, then, since it is mostly getting ignored. > > What do you all think of Idle? I made my case and it seems to have gained little traction. I think he is clearly playing in a way that is beneficial for scum and most of you are falling for it. **Idle** played the same way in the previous game. Minimal posts. At least they have a vote and a plausible reason. ---
**Author:** ![peekercpa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/8baadc/32.png) [@peekercpa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/peekercpa)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2011, 5:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/glasnost-mafia/571757/389 "2011-02-25T17:59:32Z")
> [@Gadarene](#): > > _sigh_ Fine, Pleo, your continued defense of yourself has convinced me that you’re probably just a misguided townie. > > [color=red]**unvote Pleonast[color]** > > Off to see if I can find a better lynch candidate before the Day ends. \ ah, so the kicking and screaming defense makes inroads. i imagine if **pleo** had posted in uber large fonts he would probably cross the line from scum to “misguided townie” and move straight to confirmed townie. seriously **gad** would you expect a different reaction from scum **pleo**? i mean were you expecting something along the lines of _you guys sussed me out and have worn me down with your logic and passion. yes, indeed i am scum. and, by the way, x, y and z are also scum. it’s apparant that we have no chance._ ---
**Author:** ![Pleonast](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pleonast/32/1183_2.png) [@Pleonast](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pleonast)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2011, 6:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/glasnost-mafia/571757/390 "2011-02-25T18:05:04Z")
> [@peekercpa](#): > > ah, so the kicking and screaming defense makes inroads. i imagine if **pleo** had posted in uber large fonts he would probably cross the line from scum to “misguided townie” and move straight to confirmed townie. Ah, so not only am I not allowed to have a differing opinion on how to play the game, I’m not allowed to defend how I play the game. ---
**Author:** ![Gadarene](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47c2d/32.png) [@Gadarene](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gadarene)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2011, 6:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/glasnost-mafia/571757/391 "2011-02-25T18:06:43Z")
> [@peekercpa](#): > > seriously **gad** would you expect a different reaction from scum **pleo**? i mean were you expecting something along the lines of _you guys sussed me out and have worn me down with your logic and passion. yes, indeed i am scum. and, by the way, x, y and z are also scum. it’s apparant that we have no chance._ No, but having just followed Hotel of Heroes closely (a game in which Pleo was scum) and having tangled with Pleo over this same issue in LOTR, there’s something about his dogged recitation of his position here that pings town for me. I don’t like the stances he’s taking, but he’s right that my vote is closer to a disagreement over tactics than to a full-blown belief in his scumminess. Obviously (as I noted before) this is Day One and so we intrinsically don’t have a lot to go on, but that doesn’t mean I should be voting to lynch people just because I don’t like the way that they play and think their positions aren’t helpful to town. If at some point Pleo puts his policy into action in a tangibly anti-town way, I’ll be the first one at his door with the torches and pitchforks. ---
**Author:** ![MentalGuy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/439d5e/32.png) [@MentalGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MentalGuy)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2011, 6:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/glasnost-mafia/571757/392 "2011-02-25T18:29:42Z")
I did a complete reread of the Day yesterday, but will not have time to respond to everything before the end of the Day. Of the cases outside of Pleo that I have seen, I find Astral most suspicious for the same reasons others have mentioned. He seems to be manufacturing cases against certain players (primarily Guiri) while ignoring others playing similarly. Part of this comes from playing with him before and feeling that his play this game is less focused and more forced than in the previous games. Of the other cases, I think the one against Mahaloth has the most validity and while I understand why players are not jumping on the Septimus case I think it has a little more meat to it than they are acknowledging. Anyway, that means my choice comes down to a vote for Astral who I suspect of being scum, but don’t have a strong feeling about or Pleo who I don’t have a read on one way or the other. I do feel Pleo’s play so far (yes, the play up to now, not what you say you are going to do in the future) has been anti-town. Also, unless Pleo is a town power role and lied about it, I know his lynch will at worst lose us a vanilla town. And even if he is being truthful, we might lynch a sleeper. While I don’t think the odds of a good lynch are quite the 7 in 15 that sach calculated because I think Pleo is a bit more likely to be town with his claim than scum, I do think the odds of a good lynch with Pleo are better than with the alternative (I estimate about 5 in 15, but that is based on a probability for Pleo being scum that I pulled out of my ass). So based on Pleo’s play, the information he has divulged, and the odds, I will **Unvote Septimus** **Vote Pleonast** ---
**Author:** ![peekercpa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/8baadc/32.png) [@peekercpa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/peekercpa)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2011, 6:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/glasnost-mafia/571757/393 "2011-02-25T18:55:22Z")
> [@Pleonast](#): > > Ah, so not only am I not allowed to have a differing opinion on how to play the game, I’m not allowed to defend how I play the game. oh, fcs **pleo** you are either being obtuse or just honking around. you know that this was not directed at you. it was directed at fracking **gad** and his reasoning. ---
**Author:** ![Gadarene](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47c2d/32.png) [@Gadarene](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gadarene)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2011, 6:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/glasnost-mafia/571757/394 "2011-02-25T18:55:33Z")
> [@MentalGuy](#): > > Anyway, that means my choice comes down to a vote for Astral who I suspect of being scum, but don’t have a strong feeling about or Pleo who I don’t have a read on one way or the other. > > \ > > Vote Pleonast Aaaaand this is enough for me, since **MentalGuy** was one of the folks I was focusing on upon rereading the thread. As far as I’m concerned, if you suspect someone of being scum, there is absolutely no good reason to vote for someone you “don’t have a read on one way or the other.” **Vote MentalGuy** ---
**Author:** ![Drain\_Bead](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e47774/32.png) [@Drain\_Bead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Drain_Bead)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2011, 6:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/glasnost-mafia/571757/395 "2011-02-25T18:57:29Z")
> [@MentalGuy](#): > > I did a complete reread of the Day yesterday, but will not have time to respond to everything before the end of the Day. > > Of the cases outside of Pleo that I have seen, I find Astral most suspicious for the same reasons others have mentioned. He seems to be manufacturing cases against certain players (primarily Guiri) while ignoring others playing similarly. Part of this comes from playing with him before and feeling that his play this game is less focused and more forced than in the previous games. > > Of the other cases, I think the one against Mahaloth has the most validity and while I understand why players are not jumping on the Septimus case I think it has a little more meat to it than they are acknowledging. > > Anyway, that means my choice comes down to a vote for Astral who I suspect of being scum, but don’t have a strong feeling about or Pleo who I don’t have a read on one way or the other. I do feel Pleo’s play so far (yes, the play up to now, not what you say you are going to do in the future) has been anti-town. Also, unless Pleo is a town power role and lied about it, I know his lynch will at worst lose us a vanilla town. And even if he is being truthful, we might lynch a sleeper. While I don’t think the odds of a good lynch are quite the 7 in 15 that sach calculated because I think Pleo is a bit more likely to be town with his claim than scum, I do think the odds of a good lynch with Pleo are better than with the alternative (I estimate about 5 in 15, but that is based on a probability for Pleo being scum that I pulled out of my ass). > > So based on Pleo’s play, the information he has divulged, and the odds, I will > > **Unvote Septimus** > > **Vote Pleonast** Oh for the love of God. First, we had the post upthread that I didn’t like, where you wholeheartedly agreed with the case on **Pleonast** but voted **septimus** instead, and now you’re saying that you don’t have a read on **Pleonast** at all, but you’re going to vote him ahead of voting for **Astral** , who you suspect of being Scum, and **Mahaloth** , whose case you believe has the most validity. This is bar none the scummiest thing that has happened so far in this thread, and it deserves a vote. **unvote Pleonast** **vote MentalGuy** ---
**Author:** ![Gadarene](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47c2d/32.png) [@Gadarene](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gadarene)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2011, 6:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/glasnost-mafia/571757/396 "2011-02-25T18:58:17Z")
Also, something just occurred to me – there hasn’t been any discussion about the fact that scum can strategize during the day. I assume this makes it harder for Town because scum can adjust their tactics based on gameflow. I’m not sure how to account for it (not having played in any prior Mafia games in which that was the case), but I welcome thoughts and I feel like it’s a good thing for everyone to keep at the forefront of their mind. ---
**Author:** ![peekercpa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/8baadc/32.png) [@peekercpa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/peekercpa)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2011, 7:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/glasnost-mafia/571757/397 "2011-02-25T19:02:20Z")
> [@MentalGuy](#): > > Anyway, that means my choice comes down to a vote for Astral who I suspect of being scum, but don’t have a strong feeling about or Pleo who I don’t have a read on one way or the other. I do feel Pleo’s play so far (yes, the play up to now, not what you say you are going to do in the future) has been anti-town. Also, unless Pleo is a town power role and lied about it, I know his lynch will at worst lose us a vanilla town. And even if he is being truthful, we might lynch a sleeper. While I don’t think the odds of a good lynch are quite the 7 in 15 that sach calculated because\*\* I think Pleo is a bit more likely to be town with his claim than scum\*\* … \ \*\*AAAAAAIIIIII \*\*fucking **EEEEEE**. you are going to vote for someone you think is more likely town than scum over someone whom you suspect to be scum? really, i mean really? \*\*AAAAAAIIIIII \*\*fucking **EEEEEE**. ---
**Author:** ![Tom\_Scud](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/f08c70/32.png) [@Tom\_Scud](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tom_Scud)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2011, 7:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/glasnost-mafia/571757/398 "2011-02-25T19:06:03Z")
Huh. **unvote Pleo** **vote Mental Guy** As others have pointed out, voting for the guy he doesn’t think is as likely to be scum. ---
**Author:** ![peekercpa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/8baadc/32.png) [@peekercpa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/peekercpa)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2011, 7:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/glasnost-mafia/571757/399 "2011-02-25T19:09:02Z")
third vote magic. **unvote pleo** **vote mental guy** ---
**Author:** ![peekercpa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/8baadc/32.png) [@peekercpa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/peekercpa)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2011, 7:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/glasnost-mafia/571757/400 "2011-02-25T19:10:46Z")
btw, nice cross post **draino**. great minds think alike and fools seldom differ, dontchaknow. and **tom** hope you are more comfortable now. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/glasnost-mafia/571757.md?page=19) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/glasnost-mafia/571757.md?page=21)