# Glasnost Mafia **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [February 17, 2011, 11:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/glasnost-mafia/571757 "2011-02-17T23:58:11Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 22
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2011, 7:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/glasnost-mafia/571757/421 "2011-02-25T19:31:37Z")
> [@Gadarene](#): > > NETA: As far as I remember, you’re a reasonably experienced player. Therefore, you should know that this is actually a _terrible_ basis for your play. > > I thus raise my eyebrow at you, like so: :dubious: I did read and agree with the arguments. One thing my comment referred to is that those voting Astral were familiar with his play in prior games. Two prior Mafia games: Pleonast’s C4 and Halloween. Since in many ways I’m a slow learner I think I deserve a “noob” tag. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Gadarene](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47c2d/32.png) [@Gadarene](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gadarene)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2011, 7:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/glasnost-mafia/571757/422 "2011-02-25T19:32:45Z")
Also, should **MentalGuy** get lynched (either now or at some later point) and flip scum, I’d be inclined to take a harder look at **Mahaloth** , given the state of the votes when **MentalGuy** switched from **septimus** to **Pleo**. (That is, at the time that **MentalGuy** switched to **Pleo** , **Mahaloth** was the only votegetter close to **Pleo** – with 5 votes to **Pleo’s** 7. **MentalGuy’s** switch could plausibly have been an attempt to provide a bit of a cushion.) ---
**Author:** ![Suburban\_Plankton](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/suburban_plankton/32/219_2.png) [@Suburban\_Plankton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Suburban_Plankton)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2011, 7:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/glasnost-mafia/571757/423 "2011-02-25T19:36:16Z")
> [@Astral\_Rejection](#): > > I’ll gladly **unvote Tom Scud** for this. **Vote MentalGuy.** Oh good… So now \*\*Pleo \*\*can vote for you for making a self-preservation vote, which makes hids vote \*not \*a self-preservation vote.. Brilliant! ---
**Author:** ![Suburban\_Plankton](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/suburban_plankton/32/219_2.png) [@Suburban\_Plankton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Suburban_Plankton)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2011, 7:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/glasnost-mafia/571757/424 "2011-02-25T19:37:19Z")
NETA: The above post was intended to be in jest, but for all I know if could be dead-on correct. I really have no idea at this point 😕 ---
**Author:** ![special\_ed](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5ac83/32.png) [@special\_ed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/special_ed)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2011, 7:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/glasnost-mafia/571757/425 "2011-02-25T19:42:36Z")
> [@Pleonast](#): > > (I was scum that game. No point in serving wine to my own team.) huh? What possible dilemma would your own team have had? In fact, in this case, you’d be WiFoMing only players who aren’t on your team instead of everyone. ---
**Author:** ![peekercpa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/8baadc/32.png) [@peekercpa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/peekercpa)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2011, 7:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/glasnost-mafia/571757/426 "2011-02-25T19:44:27Z")
> [@Suburban\_Plankton](#): > > Oh good… > > So now \*\*Pleo \*\*can vote for you for making a self-preservation vote, which makes hids vote \*not \*a self-preservation vote.. > > Brilliant! ok, hall of fame nomination for the funniest post of the game thus far. ---
**Author:** ![special\_ed](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5ac83/32.png) [@special\_ed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/special_ed)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2011, 7:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/glasnost-mafia/571757/427 "2011-02-25T19:46:50Z")
> [@Drain\_Bead](#): > > Oh for the love of God. First, we had the post upthread that I didn’t like, where you wholeheartedly agreed with the case on **Pleonast** but voted **septimus** instead, and now you’re saying that you don’t have a read on **Pleonast** at all, but you’re going to vote him ahead of voting for **Astral** , who you suspect of being Scum, and **Mahaloth** , whose case you believe has the most validity. > > This is bar none the scummiest thing that has happened so far in this thread, and it deserves a vote. > > **unvote Pleonast** > **vote MentalGuy** This ---
**Author:** ![Gadarene](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47c2d/32.png) [@Gadarene](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gadarene)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2011, 7:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/glasnost-mafia/571757/428 "2011-02-25T19:48:00Z")
> [@special\_ed](#): > > huh? What possible dilemma would your own team have had? > > In fact, in this case, you’d be WiFoMing only players who aren’t on your team instead of everyone. I think **Pleo’s** (slightly odd) point is that when he claims vanilla at the beginning of the game, it’s done in order to confuse scum. Since he _was_ scum in Hotel of Heroes, he would accomplish nothing by claiming vanilla, and thus did not do so. (Of course, this overlooks a number of considerations – not least that if Pleo only claimed vanilla in games where he wasn’t scum, it’d be pretty easy to figure out that he _was_ scum in games where he didn’t claim…as **Mahaloth** kept saying on the spoiled board for Heroes. I know **Pleo** is smarter than that, though, so I assume that Heroes was just a one-off blip in his strategy.) ---
**Author:** ![Suburban\_Plankton](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/suburban_plankton/32/219_2.png) [@Suburban\_Plankton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Suburban_Plankton)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2011, 7:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/glasnost-mafia/571757/429 "2011-02-25T19:48:15Z")
> [@peekercpa](#): > > ok, hall of fame nomination for the funniest post of the game thus far. Thanks, but it really ticks me off that I misspelled ‘his’. Hopefully that can be fixed before the engravers are called in. ---
**Author:** ![special\_ed](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5ac83/32.png) [@special\_ed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/special_ed)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2011, 7:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/glasnost-mafia/571757/430 "2011-02-25T19:49:22Z")
> [@septimus](#): > > While I still believe that **Idle** ’s vote against **Mahaloth** was more reasonable than **Mahaloth** ’s vote against **Wolverine** , on re-read I no longer find **Mahaloth** most suspicious. (For one thing, I suspected **Mahaloth** when he was Town in Halloween Mafia a few months ago – I think I just have trouble reading him.) > > The case made against **Astral Rejection** seems strong. I am relying in large measure on my assessment of the experience and skill of those voting against **Astral** , but I think that’s a reasonable basis for my play. > > **Unvote Mahaloth** > > **Vote Astral Rejection** > > I think it might be a slight mistake to Lynch **Pleonast** toDay. There are tactical reasons to keep a claimed Vanilla Townie alive, at least for a while. Not this. Even though he’s voting for Astral. ---
**Author:** ![Pleonast](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pleonast/32/1183_2.png) [@Pleonast](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pleonast)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2011, 7:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/glasnost-mafia/571757/431 "2011-02-25T19:51:19Z")
> [@Suburban\_Plankton](#): > > So now \*\*Pleo \*\*can vote for you for making a self-preservation vote, which makes hids vote \*not \*a self-preservation vote. And this is what happens when players let the rhetoric lead them astray. Go back and read the paragraph that started all this: > [@Pleonast](#): > > On the topic of votes, I will vote for any player who places their vote purely for self survival. That is, if you are a likely lynch candidate, voting for another lynch candidate simply to prevent your own lynch instead of whoever you find suspicious. Scum have a strong incentive to do this, town should not behave like scum. **Astral** ’s vote for **MentalGuy** does not qualify. They’ve given a pro-town reason for their vote. ---
**Author:** ![Gadarene](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47c2d/32.png) [@Gadarene](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gadarene)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2011, 7:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/glasnost-mafia/571757/432 "2011-02-25T19:53:45Z")
So, **ed** , you agree with **Drain** that **MentalGuy’s** post was “bar none the scummiest thing that has happened so far in this thread,” but you’re not switching your vote? Not that you have to, obviously; it just seemed odd. ---
**Author:** ![Gadarene](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47c2d/32.png) [@Gadarene](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gadarene)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2011, 8:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/glasnost-mafia/571757/433 "2011-02-25T20:01:52Z")
**Can we get a vote count, pretty please?** ---
**Author:** ![Suburban\_Plankton](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/suburban_plankton/32/219_2.png) [@Suburban\_Plankton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Suburban_Plankton)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2011, 8:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/glasnost-mafia/571757/434 "2011-02-25T20:08:00Z")
Before \*\*MentalGuy’s \*\*post, the vote was: pleo 8 maha 5 astral 3 mental 0 In the initial flurry, 3 people changed votes from \*\*Pleo \*\*to **MentalGuy** , and one person who had just recently unvoted \*\*Pleo \*\*voted for **MentalGuy** , making it: pleo 5 maha 5 mental 4 astral 3 And after \*\*septimus \*\*and \*\*Astral \*\*voted: Pleo 5 Mental 5 Maha 4 Astral 4 It seems like the ‘winner’ here is Pleonast. Though he’s still tied for the lead, his lynch is suddenly far from certain, and the tiebreaker procedure strongly favors a ‘no lynch’ outcome. So…is **MentalGuy** Town, jumping on the bandwagon against Town **Pleo** , and failing miserably at it? _Scum_, jumping on the bandwagon against Town **Pleo** , and failing miserably at it? Scum, jumping on the bandwagon against \*Scum \ ***Pleo** , and failing miserably at it? or Scum, \*intentionally \*failing in order to draw votes onto himself, and off of **Pleo**? ---
**Author:** ![Gadarene](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47c2d/32.png) [@Gadarene](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gadarene)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2011, 8:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/glasnost-mafia/571757/435 "2011-02-25T20:13:17Z")
Of your options, I’m inclined towards #2 or #3 at the moment. And between #2 and #3, the former is more likely statistically and makes a bit more sense. ---
**Author:** ![Suburban\_Plankton](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/suburban_plankton/32/219_2.png) [@Suburban\_Plankton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Suburban_Plankton)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2011, 8:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/glasnost-mafia/571757/436 "2011-02-25T20:15:32Z")
> [@Pleonast](#): > > And this is what happens when players let the rhetoric lead them astray. Go back and read the paragraph that started all this: > > **Astral** ’s vote for **MentalGuy** does not qualify. They’ve given a pro-town reason for their vote. I found your claim and you voting stance to be null tells, but it’s posts like these that make me think you are Scum. Of all the things said in the 40 posts since \*\*MentalGuy’s \*\*vote, this was the only thing you found worthy of comment? You felt the most important thing for you to say was to point out that my \*joke \*was not quite solidly based in actual fact? ---
**Author:** ![peekercpa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/8baadc/32.png) [@peekercpa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/peekercpa)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2011, 8:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/glasnost-mafia/571757/437 "2011-02-25T20:17:15Z")
and by the by. if i am at all close to correct there are three current one off votes. **pede** ( **pleo** ), **idle** ( **maha** ) and **guiri** ( **story** ). ---
**Author:** ![Gadarene](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47c2d/32.png) [@Gadarene](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gadarene)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2011, 8:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/glasnost-mafia/571757/438 "2011-02-25T20:19:57Z")
> [@peekercpa](#): > > and by the by. if i am at all close to correct there are three current one off votes. **pede** ( **pleo** ), **idle** ( **maha** ) and **guiri** ( **story** ). That’s my count as well, peeker, and I think everyone has currently registered a vote for someone or other – there are no abstainers. ---
**Author:** ![Suburban\_Plankton](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/suburban_plankton/32/219_2.png) [@Suburban\_Plankton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Suburban_Plankton)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2011, 8:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/glasnost-mafia/571757/439 "2011-02-25T20:23:19Z")
> [@Suburban\_Plankton](#): > > So…is **MentalGuy** > > Town, jumping on the bandwagon against Town **Pleo** , and failing miserably at it? > _Scum_, jumping on the bandwagon against Town **Pleo** , and failing miserably at it? > Scum, jumping on the bandwagon against \*Scum \ ***Pleo** , and failing miserably at it? > or > Scum, \*intentionally \*failing in order to draw votes onto himself, and off of **Pleo**? I actually made an error typing this… In the first case (\*\*Mental \*\*is Town) then we don’t know if \*\*Pleo \*\*is Town, Scum, or 3rd Party. ---
**Author:** ![Suburban\_Plankton](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/suburban_plankton/32/219_2.png) [@Suburban\_Plankton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Suburban_Plankton)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2011, 8:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/glasnost-mafia/571757/440 "2011-02-25T20:24:20Z")
NETA: Correction to my correction: In the first case (Mental is Town) then _ **he doesn’t know** _ if Pleo is Town, Scum, or 3rd Party. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/glasnost-mafia/571757.md?page=21) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/glasnost-mafia/571757.md?page=23)