# Glasnost Mafia **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [February 17, 2011, 11:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/glasnost-mafia/571757 "2011-02-17T23:58:11Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 25
**Author:** ![peekercpa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/8baadc/32.png) [@peekercpa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/peekercpa)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2011, 9:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/glasnost-mafia/571757/481 "2011-02-25T21:45:51Z")
> [@MentalGuy](#): > > I am operating under the assumption that Pleo is either lying scum or truth-telling town. \ upthread someone mentioned too much coffee. maybe it’s the great weather or too much coca cola but this one struck my funny as well. you really shouldn’t go out on a limb like this. someone might hold you accountable for such an outlandish position. btw, do you put syrup on your waffles? ---
**Author:** ![sachertorte](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sachertorte/32/3727_2.png) [@sachertorte](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sachertorte)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2011, 9:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/glasnost-mafia/571757/482 "2011-02-25T21:47:19Z")
I will switch my vote to Pleonast to avoid a tie if necessary. ---
**Author:** ![Tom\_Scud](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/f08c70/32.png) [@Tom\_Scud](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tom_Scud)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2011, 9:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/glasnost-mafia/571757/483 "2011-02-25T21:50:47Z")
I don’t find Astral’s tie-making vote problematic - there was still a full four and a half hours left at the time he made it - you might as well throw Peeker and me on the grill as well for our tie-making unvotes of Pleo. Unless we want to operate on the basis that the leader cannot change on the last day, that seems like plenty of time for someone to make a switch. ---
**Author:** ![Gadarene](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47c2d/32.png) [@Gadarene](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gadarene)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2011, 9:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/glasnost-mafia/571757/484 "2011-02-25T21:51:53Z")
> [@sachertorte](#): > > Gadarene is on my radar now. I find this particular post a bit too concerned about possible backlash. In other words, Gadarene is careful to be delicate regarding Ed. I feel that Scum tend to be more concerned about how they are perceived than Town. I’m a little confused. I was expecting **ed** to follow up his post with a vote, and when he didn’t I thought it was odd. So I said so. How am I being delicate regarding him? > [@](#): > > Another Gadarene post that makes me scratch my head. This one is a bit too blatant for me to accept as scummy, but it certainly isn’t screaming “Town” to me. And how was this post “blatant” anything? **Suburban** switches from someone who had been one of the leading votegetters; his new vote has the effect of shoring up the votes against **Pleo** at a time when **MentalGuy** was threatening to take over the vote lead. I posted about it lightheartedly as essentially a mental bookmark for myself (and for others) and to poke **Suburban** a bit – if, in fact, **MentalGuy** is scum and **Pleo** is not, then **Suburban’s** switched vote in that circumstance will look very suspicious in retrospect. What part of that reasoning (and the fact that I posted about it) is incorrect or weird? On this point, I agree with Pleonast. Even as a “joke” SP’s post is a Vanilla Claim. There is no other way to parse it. The ONLY players who can possibly be the Sleeper ‘think’ they are Vanilla Town at this moment. Everyone else cannot be the sleeper by definition. :mad: [/QUOTE] ---
**Author:** ![peekercpa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/8baadc/32.png) [@peekercpa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/peekercpa)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2011, 9:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/glasnost-mafia/571757/485 "2011-02-25T21:52:05Z")
> [@Suburban\_Plankton](#): > > And I’m just having too much fun right at the moment. I think I may have had a couple too many cups of coffee today… \ and although it is as old as the hills it does need repeating. quit having fun, we are playing a game here. ---
**Author:** ![Gadarene](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47c2d/32.png) [@Gadarene](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gadarene)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2011, 9:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/glasnost-mafia/571757/486 "2011-02-25T21:52:55Z")
NETA: …And obviously I forgot to edit out the rest of **sach’s** post that I was quoting. ---
**Author:** ![Gadarene](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47c2d/32.png) [@Gadarene](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gadarene)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2011, 9:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/glasnost-mafia/571757/487 "2011-02-25T21:54:02Z")
> [@sachertorte](#): > > I will switch my vote to Pleonast to avoid a tie if necessary. Why **Pleo** rather than **MentalGuy**? ---
**Author:** ![special\_ed](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5ac83/32.png) [@special\_ed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/special_ed)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2011, 9:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/glasnost-mafia/571757/488 "2011-02-25T21:57:01Z")
> [@Gadarene](#): > > So, **ed** , you agree with **Drain** that **MentalGuy’s** post was “bar none the scummiest thing that has happened so far in this thread,” but you’re not switching your vote? > > Not that you have to, obviously; it just seemed odd. I agreed with the premise. I hadn’t decided if it was the scummiest thing up until now. I was catching up and then work called me away from playing games. I’m catching up again. ---
**Author:** ![special\_ed](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5ac83/32.png) [@special\_ed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/special_ed)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2011, 9:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/glasnost-mafia/571757/489 "2011-02-25T21:58:32Z")
> [@Suburban\_Plankton](#): > > Town, jumping on the bandwagon against Town **Pleo** , and failing miserably at it? > _Scum_, jumping on the bandwagon against Town **Pleo** , and failing miserably at it? > Scum, jumping on the bandwagon against \*Scum \ ***Pleo** , and failing miserably at it? > or > Scum, \*intentionally \*failing in order to draw votes onto himself, and off of **Pleo**? 1. Maybe 2. Maybe 3. Maybe 4. Huh? Not that Scum would never do that, but Pleo would have to have one beast of a power the Scum need to save. ---
**Author:** ![special\_ed](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5ac83/32.png) [@special\_ed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/special_ed)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2011, 10:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/glasnost-mafia/571757/490 "2011-02-25T22:00:48Z")
> [@Gadarene](#): > > If **MentalGuy** ultimately flips scum and **Pleo** doesn’t, that vote might not look super-great for you, **Suburban**. 🙂 why are you trying to get Suburban to think about how he’ll look instead of having himm try to find Scum? ---
**Author:** ![Drain\_Bead](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e47774/32.png) [@Drain\_Bead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Drain_Bead)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2011, 10:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/glasnost-mafia/571757/491 "2011-02-25T22:00:53Z")
Fuck. We cannot have a tie, but I have absolutely no desire to switch my vote. **MentalGuy** came back to the thread, posted, knew he was in trouble of being lynched (if my count is correct he was tied for the lead at that point), but _didn’t roleclaim_. I see no pro-Town reason for withholding that information, if he’s Town, in his last post. I also don’t think his bandwagon was Scum-driven because of how quickly it happened. I mean, the first four votes were nearly simul-posts. That would have taken a level of coordination that, despite day-strategy, would have been very difficult to arrange. I think that this bandwagon is sincere. What time, exactly, will Dusk occur? If things are dire, I will try to get back and switch my vote to avoid a tie if necessary, but I want to reiterate that I think **MentalGuy** is our best option at this point. ---
**Author:** ![special\_ed](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5ac83/32.png) [@special\_ed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/special_ed)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2011, 10:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/glasnost-mafia/571757/492 "2011-02-25T22:02:31Z")
> [@Suburban\_Plankton](#): > > But for all I know, \*\*Pleonast \*\*is Scum, I’m going to get him lynched today, and then Tonight I’ll find out I’m a Sleeper and get recruited. Wouldn’t \*that \*be awkward! I think I am allowed to bitchslap you as long as I smile 😃 ---
**Author:** ![special\_ed](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5ac83/32.png) [@special\_ed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/special_ed)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2011, 10:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/glasnost-mafia/571757/493 "2011-02-25T22:04:43Z")
> [@septimus](#): > > I’m sorry; I just don’t see why Mental’s vote is clearly scummy. Yes, he might be voting Pleo even though he suspects Septimus or Astral more. But Septimus isn’t in Lynch contention – it would be a wasted vote; and several players have implied (though I disagree) that Lynching claimed vanilla might be playing the odds: even if Pleo isn’t Scum, he might be Sleeper. > > Puzzled by your cryptic comment. You disapprove of my post, which was mainly a vote for Astral … “Even though he’s voting for Astral.” Or did you just mean voting Astral is better than voting Pleo, but not as good as voting Mental? It was a comment that I felt your reasoning was bad, even if your vote wasn’t. If you’ll notice, my vote is on Astral as well. ---
**Author:** ![Gadarene](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47c2d/32.png) [@Gadarene](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gadarene)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2011, 10:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/glasnost-mafia/571757/494 "2011-02-25T22:04:45Z")
> [@special\_ed](#): > > why are you trying to get Suburban to think about how he’ll look instead of having himm try to find Scum? I don’t understand your question, and **sachertorte** has already questioned me about that post. If you read my response to him and still find it unsatisfactory, I am happy to elaborate. (But not _too_ happy, because then **sach** will think I care too much. And maybe by taking into account whether **sach** thinks I care too much, I’m caring too much! Oh noooooo…) ---
**Author:** ![sachertorte](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sachertorte/32/3727_2.png) [@sachertorte](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sachertorte)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2011, 10:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/glasnost-mafia/571757/495 "2011-02-25T22:05:44Z")
> [@Gadarene](#): > > I’m a little confused. I was expecting **ed** to follow up his post with a vote, and when he didn’t I thought it was odd. So I said so. How am I being delicate regarding him? You didn’t simply ask him. You also said something to the effect of “not that you have to,” which strikes me as overly concerned with his reaction to your poking him. > [@](#): > > And how was this post “blatant” anything? If MentalGuy is scum and Pleonast is not, scum would know this right now at this very minute. Therefore, if Suburban Plankton is Town, then SP becomes a juicy target for scum to score another mislynch. > [@](#): > > **Suburban** switches from someone who had been one of the leading votegetters; his new vote has the effect of shoring up the votes against **Pleo** at a time when **MentalGuy** was threatening to take over the vote lead. A Townie SP needs to vote for what he thinks is best. A Townie SP also does not know whether MentalGuy and Pleonast are Town or not. You are looking at one side of the coin but not the other. One could argue that you could be setting SP up. There is also the timing. Why bring this up now? Why specifically SP? I’m probably going to switch my vote to Pleonast… this is how the game works. > [@](#): > > if, in fact, **MentalGuy** is scum and **Pleo** is not, then **Suburban’s** switched vote in that circumstance will look very suspicious in retrospect. What part of that reasoning (and the fact that I posted about it) is incorrect or weird? A Townie SP could just as easily moved his vote. If you don’t account for that possibility then you aren’t giving SP a fair assessment. Like I said, its a bit too blatantly scummy for me to believe that scum would brazenly do such a thing, but it’s there and I’m keeping an eye on it. ---
**Author:** ![Gadarene](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47c2d/32.png) [@Gadarene](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gadarene)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2011, 10:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/glasnost-mafia/571757/496 "2011-02-25T22:05:51Z")
> [@Drain\_Bead](#): > > I think that this bandwagon is sincere. What time, exactly, will Dusk occur? If things are dire, I will try to get back and switch my vote to avoid a tie if necessary, but I want to reiterate that I think **MentalGuy** is our best option at this point. Dusk occurs at 7 pm EST, so two hours for now. And yeah, I agree with the rest of your post to the letter. ---
**Author:** ![special\_ed](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5ac83/32.png) [@special\_ed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/special_ed)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2011, 10:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/glasnost-mafia/571757/497 "2011-02-25T22:11:11Z")
> [@ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies](#): > > Gah. I wake up to another explosion of who knows what. I agree that Astral’s tie-maker is really damn scary, but the full implications of it didn’t really gel for me until forced to confront it head on, so I’m inclined to read it as a null tell at this point because I very well could have ended up inadvertently doing the same thing if I had been in his position. still catching up. You aren’t the first to emtnion the scummy-seeming tie-making vote of Astral. Some think it is scummy, some think it isn’t. With the way the voting has been going, I see it as a null tell. Astral voted for someone who was high in the voting and wasn’t him. I’ve had trouble myself keeping up with the vote counts. And there are still a few pople whp might switch votes (like me) ---
**Author:** ![Gadarene](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47c2d/32.png) [@Gadarene](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gadarene)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2011, 10:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/glasnost-mafia/571757/498 "2011-02-25T22:12:37Z")
I’m not responding to your post point-by-point, so if there’s something in there that you think I’m trying to avoid, bring it up again and I’ll address it. > [@sachertorte](#): > > A Townie SP needs to vote for what he thinks is best. A Townie SP also does not know whether MentalGuy and Pleonast are Town or not. You are looking at one side of the coin but not the other. Quite possibly. It was an off-handed/light-hearted comment on my part to begin with. Note the smiley. > [@](#): > > One could argue that you could be setting SP up. This presupposes a level of premeditation and organization of which I assure you I am not generally capable. > [@](#): > > There is also the timing. Why bring this up now? Why specifically SP? I’m probably going to switch my vote to Pleonast… this is how the game works. Why bring this up now? Because I was online at the time waiting to see if more people voted for the person I thought was the scummiest, and **Suburban** comes on and switches his vote to someone else without much of an explanation (making a lynch of the person I thought was the scummiest less likely in the process), so I commented about it. If I wasn’t procrastinating from doing work at that point, I probably wouldn’t have commented about it. This is how my day works. And yeah, if you switch to **Pleo** and don’t adequately justify your vote in my eyes, I might say something about it, if I’m around and can be bothered to do so. And I might not! > [@](#): > > A Townie SP could just as easily moved his vote. If you don’t account for that possibility then you aren’t giving SP a fair assessment. I absolutely account for that possibility. I’d be an idiot not to. > [@](#): > > Like I said, its a bit too blatantly scummy for me to believe that scum would brazenly do such a thing, but it’s there and I’m keeping an eye on it. Feel free. ---
**Author:** ![peekercpa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/8baadc/32.png) [@peekercpa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/peekercpa)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2011, 10:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/glasnost-mafia/571757/499 "2011-02-25T22:12:37Z")
wonderful, we have **zeriel** , **sach** and **draino** all willing to switch votes to avoid a tie with **cookies** keeping a close eye on things to ensure no shenanigans. not to mention **story** and **maha** with their one offs who i don’t believe have weighed in on current activity. and if my math is correct we have less than two hours until Day end. i think i’ll go make some popcorn. and on preview add **ed** to the mix. ---
**Author:** ![sachertorte](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sachertorte/32/3727_2.png) [@sachertorte](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sachertorte)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2011, 10:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/glasnost-mafia/571757/500 "2011-02-25T22:12:48Z")
> [@Gadarene](#): > > Why **Pleo** rather than **MentalGuy**? Why not? 😃 I’ve made several posts debating Pleonast and while I have stated that voting for Pleonast would be punitive (it still is), I have also come to the realization that Pleonast’s claim makes him statistically more likely to be a ‘good’ lynch than anyone else. For me that’s quite compelling and not totally unfair to Pleonast as he chose to claim. Technically, I could make the same argument for Suburban Plankton, but my feeling is he is more likely to be Vanilla Town than some sort of super-sneaky-i’ll-make-a-joke-about-sleepers-to-make-them-think-i’m-vanilla-town scum. Emphasis on the ‘more likely.’ [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/glasnost-mafia/571757.md?page=24) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/glasnost-mafia/571757.md?page=26)