# Glasnost Mafia **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [February 17, 2011, 11:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/glasnost-mafia/571757 "2011-02-17T23:58:11Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 35
**Author:** ![Manwich](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e480ec/32.png) [@Manwich](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Manwich)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2011, 11:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/glasnost-mafia/571757/681 "2011-02-28T23:34:15Z")
> [@Astral\_Rejection](#): > > One and Only has (briefly) chimed in, so I guess that would just leave Storyteller. I believe we should wait until he gets a chance to speak, even if it’s just to toss a vote on Drain. Agree we should give Storyteller a chance to contribute, but is it better for us to hold off lyching to discuss other stuff (because one of us is probably going to be scum-killed after the lynch) or should we go ahead and lynch because scum can strategise now anyway, and there is not much point talking without knowing the status of Drain/Mental? ---
**Author:** ![special\_ed](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5ac83/32.png) [@special\_ed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/special_ed)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2011, 11:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/glasnost-mafia/571757/682 "2011-02-28T23:35:31Z")
> [@sachertorte](#): > > Ed, I’m not sure what you’re getting at. Are you saying that Gadarene is acting scummy? I suppose you can make a case in a “one of these things is not like the others” way, but I’m not sure that casting doubt on MentalGuy is really all that scummy. If anything, the fact that Gadarene is willing to fly in the face of the current state seems more Town to me than scum, especially if MentalGuy is Town. > > In other words a scummy Gadarene is unlikely to want to zig when everyone else is zagging and cast doubt on a Townie MentalGuy. The situation is clear, Drain Bead is getting lynched. Gadarene’s suspicions will not change that. > And if MentalGuy is scum, why would a scummy Gadarene be pushing the point? Honestly, it’s the only thing that has stood out to me toDay. I’m not sure that it’s scummy, but it’s something I noticed and so I commented on it and explained what I saw and why I found it suspicious. ---
**Author:** ![special\_ed](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5ac83/32.png) [@special\_ed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/special_ed)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2011, 11:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/glasnost-mafia/571757/683 "2011-02-28T23:39:46Z")
> [@Manwich](#): > > Agree we should give Storyteller a chance to contribute, but is it better for us to hold off lyching to discuss other stuff (because one of us is probably going to be scum-killed after the lynch) or should we go ahead and lynch because scum can strategise now anyway, and there is not much point talking without knowing the status of Drain/Mental? I think that it’s reasonable to wait for a while. I don’t think we’ll lose anything by waiting for everyone to chime in. I’d also like to be sure that everyone gets to chime in after Mental Guy’s results were posted. Maybe we should try to come up with a consensus as to when to end the Day. I know some have requested that we try no to get ayEnds over the weekend, but with 6 day or less cycles, that might not always be possible. ---
**Author:** ![Mahaloth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mahaloth/32/1079_2.png) [@Mahaloth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mahaloth)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2011, 11:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/glasnost-mafia/571757/684 "2011-02-28T23:54:02Z")
I agree we should let everyone have a shot at reading the thread. I suggest this: **We “hammer” Drain’s lynch tomorrow at, let’s say, 7 PM.** More or less 24 more hours from now. Basically, after 7 PM Eastern tomorrow, if we have anyone holding off on voting Drain, they can go ahead and do it. Sorry, Drain, but we have to check Mental’s claim. ---
**Author:** ![special\_ed](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5ac83/32.png) [@special\_ed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/special_ed)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2011, 11:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/glasnost-mafia/571757/685 "2011-02-28T23:56:07Z")
> [@special\_ed](#): > > I think that it’s reasonable to wait for a while. I don’t think we’ll lose anything by waiting for everyone to chime in. I’d also like to be sure that everyone gets to chime in after Mental Guy’s results were posted. Maybe we should try to come up with a consensus as to when to end the Day. I know some have requested that we try no to get ayEnds over the weekend, but with 6 day or less cycles, that might not always be possible. NETA: t & D ---
**Author:** ![Drain\_Bead](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e47774/32.png) [@Drain\_Bead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Drain_Bead)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2011, 12:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/glasnost-mafia/571757/686 "2011-03-01T00:12:03Z")
I understand, and if I were in your shoes I’d do the same thing. It just sucks to have to get mislynched and leave the game. Maybe I can sub back in if someone gets busy. ☹ ---
**Author:** ![peekercpa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/8baadc/32.png) [@peekercpa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/peekercpa)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2011, 12:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/glasnost-mafia/571757/687 "2011-03-01T00:54:28Z")
> [@Drain\_Bead](#): > > I understand, and if I were in your shoes I’d do the same thing. It just sucks to have to get mislynched and leave the game. Maybe I can sub back in if someone gets busy. ☹ and i wouldn’t consider it a mis lynch in any regards. let’s just say you are telling the truth and **mental** is lying. well any good townie would willingly give up a one for one. ---
**Author:** ![Tom\_Scud](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/f08c70/32.png) [@Tom\_Scud](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tom_Scud)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2011, 1:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/glasnost-mafia/571757/688 "2011-03-01T01:11:18Z")
> [@f'ing Hamlet already](#): > > To die, to sleep, > No more; and by a sleep to say we end > The heart-ache, and the thousand natural shocks > That flesh is heir to: 'tis a consummation > Devoutly to be wished. .. ---
**Author:** ![Drain\_Bead](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e47774/32.png) [@Drain\_Bead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Drain_Bead)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2011, 1:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/glasnost-mafia/571757/689 "2011-03-01T01:39:35Z")
> [@peekercpa](#): > > and i wouldn’t consider it a mis lynch in any regards. let’s just say you are telling the truth and **mental** is lying. well any good townie would willingly give up a one for one. That’s exactly what I was saying. But it still totally sucks for me. I _liked_ playing this game. It’s been a while. ---
**Author:** ![Mahaloth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mahaloth/32/1079_2.png) [@Mahaloth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mahaloth)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2011, 2:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/glasnost-mafia/571757/690 "2011-03-01T02:53:46Z")
> [@Drain\_Bead](#): > > I understand, and if I were in your shoes I’d do the same thing. It just sucks to have to get mislynched and leave the game. Maybe I can sub back in if someone gets busy. ☹ Yeah, if you are Town, don’t worry. Your death will be useful and can help win the game still. Better than just a “meaningless” death. ---
**Author:** ![Suburban\_Plankton](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/suburban_plankton/32/219_2.png) [@Suburban\_Plankton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Suburban_Plankton)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2011, 3:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/glasnost-mafia/571757/691 "2011-03-01T03:00:50Z")
Sorry my participation has been light Today. I’ve been laid out by a bad cold since Saturday evening. Luckily, Today seems to be pretty straightforward. If \*\*MentalGuy \*\*is on the level we catch the Mad Bomber; if not, then we’ve caught our second Scum and just have to lynch him Tomorrow. ---
**Author:** ![Manwich](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e480ec/32.png) [@Manwich](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Manwich)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2011, 3:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/glasnost-mafia/571757/692 "2011-03-01T03:06:23Z")
> [@Suburban\_Plankton](#): > > Sorry my participation has been light Today. I’ve been laid out by a bad cold since Saturday evening. Luckily, Today seems to be pretty straightforward. If \*\*MentalGuy \*\*is on the level we catch the Mad Bomber; if not, then we’ve caught our second Scum and just have to lynch him Tomorrow. Or Mental Guy is the mad bomber and we catch him. ---
**Author:** ![Zeriel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/58956e/32.png) [@Zeriel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zeriel)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2011, 3:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/glasnost-mafia/571757/693 "2011-03-01T03:59:10Z")
Ultimately I can’t see scum throwing away a successful cop claim by this kinda gambit unless they were somehow at a loss for why we didn’t jump on him right away at daybreak. A mad bomber MentalGuy makes even less sense, somehow. ---
**Author:** ![ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e9bcb4/32.png) [@ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2011, 4:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/glasnost-mafia/571757/694 "2011-03-01T04:04:40Z")
> [@GuiriEnEspana](#): > > No pie yet. > > The statement was in reference to **Astral** ’s accusations. I did not vote **Pleo** despite finding his opinions anti-town because I believe anti-town != scummy. Yeah I get that, sort of. And I’d agree with you if you were to say that not _all_ ‘anti-town’ opinions are ‘scummy’. But that wasn’t what you said. You also go on to say that instead, you vote for players who you believe are likely to be scum, whatever that means. You appear to have taken an entire class of potential evidence off of the table (anti-town opinions) while offering no insight into what sort of evidence you do use to determine whether or not you believe someone is likely to be scum. It just reads like the flip-side of a policy vote, and a dubious one at that. Depending on the context, I think an anti-town opinion could very well be a valid data point in a case against someone. I’d be more comfortable with conditional consideration of anti-town opinions and a bit more insight into what policies you do plan to use to ferret out the scum. And I’d be even more comfortable with less general policy discussion and more specific-to-this-game discussion. ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2011, 6:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/glasnost-mafia/571757/695 "2011-03-01T06:40:48Z")
Here are my own musings. As I said earlier, **Drain Bead** may be the only Lynch choice, but what’s the hurry? (And maybe I’ll get to be the Hammerer and get 15 seconds of fame!) I’m still confused by Scum’s failure to kill the Cop. It would seem their best move even if they assumed he was 80% or so to be Jailed. (But if **Mental Guy** is Scum we’ll find out soon and, presumably, have an easy win.) The accusations against **Astral** that it was scummy to cause a tie seem very unfounded (indeed scummy) to me. They might make sense if he’d voted only a minute or three before Lynch deadline, but his vote was hours before and, as we saw, so much vote-switching happens just before Nightfall as to render that temporary “tie” meaningless. Earlier I said any flaws in **Mental** ’s post might be Town tells, and got this response: > [@Gadarene](#): > > Must be nice to be scum: If you’re slick, nobody suspects you, and if you’re self-contradictory and seemingly anti-town, you’re just being a sincere townie! 🙂 Is the implication that a Scum might act deliberately ambivalent and confused if that were a “Town tell”? I see two flaws in that argument: (1) Reaction suggests only **septimus** (\*) would even treat it as a Town tell. (2) Deliberately constructing a genuine-seeming confused post may be harder than it sounds! (\* - I’ve been told it’s quite weird to refer to oneself in the 3rd person. Yet sometimes, as here, it seems to add clarity. No?) ---
**Author:** ![One\_And\_Only\_Wanderers](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/838e76/32.png) [@One\_And\_Only\_Wanderers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/One_And_Only_Wanderers)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2011, 7:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/glasnost-mafia/571757/696 "2011-03-01T07:18:54Z")
> [@septimus](#): > > I’m still confused by Scum’s failure to kill the Cop. It would seem their best move even if they assumed he was 80% or so to be Jailed. (But if **Mental Guy** is Scum we’ll find out soon and, presumably, have an easy win.) Why? It’s (assuming MentalGuy is on the up and up) a big old game of WIFOM between the scum and the jailer. I find it perfectly reasonable that the cop could survive the night without being jailed. ---
**Author:** ![GuiriEnEspana](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/bc79bd/32.png) [@GuiriEnEspana](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GuiriEnEspana)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2011, 8:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/glasnost-mafia/571757/697 "2011-03-01T08:39:57Z")
> [@ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies](#): > > Yeah I get that, sort of. And I’d agree with you if you were to say that not _all_ ‘anti-town’ opinions are ‘scummy’. But that wasn’t what you said. You also go on to say that instead, you vote for players who you believe are likely to be scum, whatever that means. > > You appear to have taken an entire class of potential evidence off of the table (anti-town opinions) while offering no insight into what sort of evidence you do use to determine whether or not you believe someone is likely to be scum. > > It just reads like the flip-side of a policy vote, and a dubious one at that. Depending on the context, I think an anti-town opinion could very well be a valid data point in a case against someone. > > I’d be more comfortable with conditional consideration of anti-town opinions and a bit more insight into what policies you do plan to use to ferret out the scum. And I’d be even more comfortable with less general policy discussion and more specific-to-this-game discussion. This is about this game: my reasons for not voting **Pleo**. I explained how I would evaluate **Pleo** ’s actions in [#355](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=13503773&postcount=355). I agree that an anti-town opinion can be a data point in a case against another player but I don’t think I’d have much luck finding scum based on an opinion alone - scum don’t have the monopoly on anti-towniness. When making a case I look at a player’s actions and votes: the timing, reasoning, context, previous stances, interactions with other players, and look for the scum motivation, contradictions, misrepresentations, backtracks, flawed reasoning, etc., and then use my personal judgement to decide whether the player has a greater likelihood of being scum and make a case or vote accordingly. ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2011, 9:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/glasnost-mafia/571757/698 "2011-03-01T09:41:02Z")
Another question: Why was there only one Kill last Night? With the sleeper mechanism I’d think the Vigilante would be more likely than usual to kill: wouldn’t he be delighted if he accidentally hit a sleeper? ---
**Author:** ![One\_And\_Only\_Wanderers](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/838e76/32.png) [@One\_And\_Only\_Wanderers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/One_And_Only_Wanderers)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2011, 9:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/glasnost-mafia/571757/699 "2011-03-01T09:47:31Z")
> [@septimus](#): > > Another question: Why was there only one Kill last Night? > > With the sleeper mechanism I’d think the Vigilante would be more likely than usual to kill: wouldn’t he be delighted if he accidentally hit a sleeper? Vigilantes are best not shooting blind. That is just a huge gamble with all the unknowns in the mix. Now, if Drain comes up anything other than 3rd party today, then Mentalguy would be an excellent Vig target. ---
**Author:** ![peekercpa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/8baadc/32.png) [@peekercpa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/peekercpa)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2011, 1:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/glasnost-mafia/571757/700 "2011-03-01T13:09:47Z")
> [@One\_And\_Only\_Wanderers](#): > > Vigilantes are best not shooting blind. That is just a huge gamble with all the unknowns in the mix. Now, if Drain comes up anything other than 3rd party today, then Mentalguy would be an excellent Vig target. no doubt. it saves having to spend a Day stringing his ass. even though i find that **mental** lying very unlikely at this point. and while i certainly don’t want to stifle discussion where are we on a consensus to hammer this Day to an end? i mean if the group wants to just let it play out that’s fine but i think (as someone mentioned upthread) delay will merely give scum more time to strategize and unless the rest of the gang is truly willing to engage in additional discussion i don’t see how town benefits from dragging this out. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/glasnost-mafia/571757.md?page=34) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/glasnost-mafia/571757.md?page=36)