# Glasnost Mafia **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [February 17, 2011, 11:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/glasnost-mafia/571757 "2011-02-17T23:58:11Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 39
**Author:** ![Mahaloth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mahaloth/32/1079_2.png) [@Mahaloth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mahaloth)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2011, 11:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/glasnost-mafia/571757/761 "2011-03-01T23:40:59Z")
> [@Zeriel](#): > > I am, as always, categorically and completely opposed to any attempts by town to coerce, vote, poll, or otherwise decide who the vig (or any town power role) will target. I consider all such attempts to be anti-town. I agree completely. The vig should just decide for themselves what to do. ---
**Author:** ![GuiriEnEspana](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/bc79bd/32.png) [@GuiriEnEspana](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GuiriEnEspana)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2011, 11:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/glasnost-mafia/571757/762 "2011-03-01T23:41:56Z")
#103 Doesn’t understand the risks of an honest VT claim, a person claiming a recruitment attempt is either lying or confirmed Town - considers this valuable information #104 NETA: they could also be the mad bomber #115 Again, considers a player either being a liar or non-scum as a helpful data point #208 Admittedly “me too” vote on **Pleo** based on reasoning given by others, doesn’t like unforced claim #209 NETA #321 Comments on pointing out PIS being an accurate scumtell in a previous game #338 To **Pleo** , asks how vote is anti-town #341 Defends vote because all we have on Day 1 are stated positions #345 Wouldn’t be surprised if **Pleo** flipped vanilla but doesn’t have any better candidates #384 Is convinced that **Pleo** is a misguided townie, unvotes #391 Defends unvote, has a Town ping from **Pleo** , vote was “closer to a disagreement over tactics than to a full-blown belief in his scumminess”, will wait to evaluate **Pleo** ’s actions #394 Votes **MentalGuy** in response to his vote on **Pleo** #396 Wonders how to account for Day scum-talk, welcomes thoughts #402 Corrects **Peeker** on vote order #403 NETA #410 Questions **Septimus** on his vote on **Astral** , missing the **MentalGuy** case #413 Questions **Septimus** on his reasoning for voting ` **Astral** , given his experience #417 Wonders if **Pleo** will make a self-defense vote #422 Wants to take a closer look at **Mahaloth** of **Mental** flips scum, suspects that **Mental** ’s vote was intended to protect **Mahaloth** #428 Comments on **Pleo** ’s reasoning for not claiming VT when scum #432 Asks **Ed** why he’s not voting **Mental** #433 Wants a vote count #436 Suspects **Mental** is scum and **Pleo** is Town #438 Comment on votes #445 Thinks **Suburban** will look bad for voting **Pleo** over **Mental** if **Mental** flips scum #452 Asks **Pleo** why he’s giving **Mental** a pass for his vote reasoning #457 Disagrees with **Pleo** ’s explanation (better a bad reason for a vote than no reason at all) #459 To **Septimus** , who doesn’t see why **Mental** ’s vote is so bad, comments that the other players mentioned were also in contention for lynch, wonders why **Septimus** doesn’t see why **Mental** is suspicious #460 NETA #464 In response to **Septimus** ’ comment on scummy players making “slicker” statements, jokingly comments that being self-contradictory and seemingly anti-town means you’re a sincere Towni #468 To **Zeriel** , hadn’t realized how ties work, finds **Mental** much more suspicious than **Pleo** , **Astral** too (for forcing a tie without much comment), won’t switch to **Astral** as **Pleo** would be lynched #474 To **Surburban** , explains **Mental** ’s comment about believing in self-preservation votes #476 Quotes rule on ties #484 To **Sache** , explains question to **Ed** (in #432), was expecting **Ed** to vote and thought it was odd that he didn’t. Doesn’t understand **Sache** ’s thought that’s he’s being delicate with **Ed** , explains comment on **Suburban** ’s vote on **Pleo** (in #445) #486 NETA #487 Asks **Sache** why he’s willing to vote **Pleo** over **Mental** #494 To **Ed** , who’s asking the same question **Sache** asked about the comment to **Suburban** , suggests he reads his reply #496 To **Drain** , tells her when dusk occurs, agrees that **Mental** is the best option #498 To **Sache** , responds that the comment to **Surburban** was intended as a joke, is not capable of setting up a player, explains why he made the comment at the time #502 To **Sache** , asks for his thoughts on **Mental** ’s vote #504 In response to **Ed** , encourages **Surburban** to find scum #507 In response to **Ed** ’s comment that he’s proven himself incapable of setting up a player, “nice” #511 To **Ed** , wonders why he gets no credit for being the first to vote **Mental** #516 To **Mental** , doesn’t see relation between timing of votes and a false-claim from scum, unvotes, expects him to be dead in the morning #517 To **Ed** , doesn’t expect to be absolved of any consequences of other actions just for voting **Mental** , “don’t be [noisily and stubbornly defiant]” #519 Forgot about the implications of the jailer’s role on **Mental** ’s claim #550 Fluff #585 Fluff: “Can’t wait till morning. Should be really, really interesting.” #590/595 Fluff #608 To **Mahaloth** about his fluff comment, doesn’t think it was off. Wants to hear from **Mental** #625 Expains in more detail - based on **Zeriel** ’s response to **Mahaloth** #644 To **Wolverine** , agrees that there’s not much to discuss. Trusts **Drain** “waaaay more” than **Mental** but is “loath to vote to lynch” #651 Votes **Drain** , will vote **Mental** if she flips vanilla #652 NETA #654 To **Septimus** , thinks his understanding of **Mental** ’s survival is correct, agrees that the jailer should stay quiet about targeting **Mental** #656 To **Ed** who asks about his experience in mafia, has played before #660 To **Ed** , replies that he already said he thought **Drain** was the obvious lynch #661 Adds further info to previous post, is confused why **Ed** is suspicious #664 To **Ed** , who quoted "I trust **Drain** waaaay more than I do **MentalGuy** , explains reasoning behind wanting to lynch **Drain** toDay #667 Further banter with **Ed** , suspects he’s trying to lynch the loud #677 Asks how we should account for scum Day talk #703 Posts order of Night actions #705 Posts order of Day action #708 Considers **Idle** cautiously confirmed due to his claim #714 Is skeptical of any action to keep the bomber alive, Town needs to kill **Drain** , doesn’t see how lynching her reduces Town’s mislynch number #718 To **Wolverine** , **Mental** won’t be around to plant one more bomb as he won’t survive toMorrow if **Drain** is Town #721 To **Astral** , misunderstands comment about letting the Vig deal with **Mental** , asks which individual **Astral** is talking about leaving it entirely in the hands of #724 To **Wanderers** , who explained that the individual is the jailer, says it makes sense, if **Drain** flips Town we still risk lynching the Vig so she can’t be vigged that Night #725 Doesn’t understand **Story** ’s idea and it makes no difference anyway #727 Comments that we need to lynch **Drain** in order to know what she is and then what **Mental** is #728 To **Wanderers** , is referring to actions toMorrow #731 To **Sache** , points out cases where a Vig of **Drain** may not occur, statistically we’re likely to lynch a Townie so better to lynch **Drain** and, if she’s not the bomber, a scummy **Mental** #732 Needs to go #738 To **Astral** , repeats that leaving **Mental** to the Vig is a bad idea #740 Realizes miscommunication, was referring to plans for toMorrow #742 Repeats same to **Story** #749 Asks **Pede** who is scummier than **Drain** , explains his comment about statistics and how not lynching **Drain** is statistically less favorable to Town Wow, I hope I didn’t miss any posts, that was a long WoW for Day 2. I’ve already expressed my suspicions of **Astral** so I chose to look at someone else, **Gadarene** , as several of his posts caught my attention: - the admittedly “me too” vote on **Pleo** followed by the subsequent unvote based on **Pleo** ’s defense - apparently looking for a pass from scrutiny for being the first vote on **Mental** - I’m not sure how to parse this until we see **Drain** ’s reveal - finding **Astral** suspicious (jumping on **Zeriel** ’s incorrect comment about **Astral** forcing a tie without commenting) and stating that he wouldn’t vote **Astral** as **Pleo** would be lynched instead - when the vote count was 6-6-4. If he was so suspicious of **Mental** , why even consider switching to **Astral**? - the inconsistency in finding **Astral** suspicious for forcing a tie but not **Pleo** who had done the same thing, in fact he still wanted to protect **Pleo** : > [@Gadarene](#): > > **Zeriel:** > > Wow, hadn’t realized that ties carried with them the possibility of no lynch. Yeah, we really need to avoid that. > > (That having been said, I think **MentalGuy** is much more suspicious than **Pleo** for the reasons I’ve outlined. **Astral** might be suspicious too – good catch that he forced a tie without much comment – but switching to him would only get **Pleo** lynched, so I’d prefer to stay with **MentalGuy** and hope someone else switches their vote.) - ending the Day without a vote, not voting **Astral** based on his claim that he hadn’t forced a tie and that it was odd to single him out - why didn’t he check the facts for himself? Why trust **Zeriel** in the first place and then **Astral** , who he suspected, later? - his 2 questions about the effect of scum Day talk on the game - not the question itself but the way it was asked twice “a random thought” **Mahaloth** next. ---
**Author:** ![peekercpa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/8baadc/32.png) [@peekercpa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/peekercpa)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2011, 1:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/glasnost-mafia/571757/763 "2011-03-02T01:27:18Z")
> [@Zeriel](#): > > I am, as always, categorically and completely opposed to any attempts by town to coerce, vote, poll, or otherwise decide who the vig (or any town power role) will target. I consider all such attempts to be anti-town. but is this a mortal sin like hammering the Day to an early end or is it just a venal sin where a couple of our fathers and hail marys get you back to even? or as **cookies** so eloquently stated elsewhere is it some combination of chia bingo managers and shoe hate? ---
**Author:** ![special\_ed](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5ac83/32.png) [@special\_ed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/special_ed)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2011, 1:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/glasnost-mafia/571757/764 "2011-03-02T01:31:07Z")
> [@peekercpa](#): > > but is this a mortal sin like hammering the Day to an early end or is it just a venal sin where a couple of our fathers and hail marys get you back to even? > > or as **cookies** so eloquently stated elsewhere is it some combination of chia bingo managers and shoe hate? Seconds this and adds a side of potatoes. ---
**Author:** ![Zeriel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/58956e/32.png) [@Zeriel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zeriel)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2011, 2:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/glasnost-mafia/571757/765 "2011-03-02T02:27:58Z")
I have no problem asserting that there are behaviors and actions that I think are anti-town. If you have a problem with that, you know how to vote. ---
**Author:** ![Trepa\_Mayfield](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/edb3f5/32.png) [@Trepa\_Mayfield](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trepa_Mayfield)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2011, 5:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/glasnost-mafia/571757/766 "2011-03-02T05:50:35Z")
> [@Gadarene](#): > > Fine, pede. Who, at this moment, is more scummy (or PFK-y, I suppose) than Drain? Do you anticipate any scenario at this point in which Drain is not the best target to lynch today? > > I wasn’t “resorting to statistics,” by the way. I was weighing the 100 percent chance we have of advancing the town’s win condition by lynching Drain toDay (and offing MentalGuy if Drain flips town) against the **something less than 100 percent chance** we have of advancing the town’s win condition by lynching someone _other_ than Drain today, unless you have a candidate to propose who is equally likely to shed major light on who the baddies are in our midst. Misread your post. I tend to be wary of anyone using the statistical argument, since this game is all about getting past the statistics. But if you’re just arguing safe lynch vs. unsafe lynch, that’s different. > [@sachertorte](#): > > The idea is to attempt to use the Vig kill as a de facto lynch. Allowing the Vig to kill unilaterally has its downsides too. > (1) The target does not have the opportunity to claim > (2) We lack a vote record and ensuing discussion about the target. > > So while scum have the benefit of small influence on the outcome, they do so with the peril of exposing themselves by acting overtly. That’s actually the whole point of the exercise. Yes, I do acknowledge that that’s how the game works. But…okay, so if you think it’s a good idea, would you suggest doing it every Day, or just toDay? If not, why not? ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2011, 5:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/glasnost-mafia/571757/767 "2011-03-02T05:52:00Z")
Somewhere in yesterDay’s voting are clues to who’s Scum, but I’ve just confused myself with double-think and triple-think trying to look for those clues. I was hoping for guidance while that 1st Day activity was fresh in minds, and disappointed that toDay turned into an automatic Lynch. So I like the suggestion that we scum-hunt toDay even though we already know who we’ll Lynch. It serves a useful purpose whether Vig takes our advice or not. For that reason, remarks like this one: > [@Gadarene](#): > > Do you anticipate any scenario at this point in which Drain is not the best target to lynch today? which focus attention away from scum-hunting toDay seem anti-Town and perhaps scummy. ---
**Author:** ![Mahaloth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mahaloth/32/1079_2.png) [@Mahaloth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mahaloth)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2011, 2:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/glasnost-mafia/571757/768 "2011-03-02T14:27:00Z")
Are we ready to hammer or is there more to discuss? ---
**Author:** ![Wolverine](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/ba9def/32.png) [@Wolverine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wolverine)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2011, 2:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/glasnost-mafia/571757/769 "2011-03-02T14:28:26Z")
Anyone still here? There’s been on average a post an hour over the past 17 hours (including fluff) with no posts for the past 8 hours. I think too many people are silent and waiting for the Day to end. While some people still want use the time, I want to hear from more than just a few people. I’m ready for a lynch so we can wait for an additional 2 days before we can really get going again. **Vote Drain Bead** (which should bring the count up to 10 with 2 more needed for the hammer) On preview, I just saw Mahaloth’s post. ---
**Author:** ![One\_And\_Only\_Wanderers](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/838e76/32.png) [@One\_And\_Only\_Wanderers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/One_And_Only_Wanderers)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2011, 2:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/glasnost-mafia/571757/770 "2011-03-02T14:36:24Z")
**vote Drain** ---
**Author:** ![peekercpa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/8baadc/32.png) [@peekercpa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/peekercpa)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2011, 2:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/glasnost-mafia/571757/771 "2011-03-02T14:44:38Z")
rut roh. the next person to vote gets the dreaded **zeriel** next Day early hammer vote. ---
**Author:** ![peekercpa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/8baadc/32.png) [@peekercpa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/peekercpa)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2011, 2:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/glasnost-mafia/571757/772 "2011-03-02T14:45:45Z")
neta: that is, of course, if the next voter votes **drain**. ---
**Author:** ![Mahaloth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mahaloth/32/1079_2.png) [@Mahaloth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mahaloth)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2011, 2:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/glasnost-mafia/571757/773 "2011-03-02T14:48:14Z")
To respond to ped: I’m not trying to rush it. I just don’t want the game to get boring and for us to drift away. I think the Drain lynch is so obvious, we can move on to the next Day. However, and I do mean this, if anyone honestly has more to discuss, please feel free to do so. No idea why you would be waiting so long, but if it matters to you, show up and discuss things. ---
**Author:** ![Gadarene](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47c2d/32.png) [@Gadarene](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gadarene)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2011, 2:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/glasnost-mafia/571757/774 "2011-03-02T14:54:10Z")
> [@septimus](#): > > So I like the suggestion that we scum-hunt toDay even though we already know who we’ll Lynch. It serves a useful purpose whether Vig takes our advice or not. For that reason, remarks like this one: > > which focus attention away from scum-hunting toDay seem anti-Town and perhaps scummy. sigh ---
**Author:** ![Zeriel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/58956e/32.png) [@Zeriel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zeriel)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2011, 3:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/glasnost-mafia/571757/775 "2011-03-02T15:23:20Z")
> [@peekercpa](#): > > rut roh. the next person to vote gets the dreaded **zeriel** next Day early hammer vote. You don’t see a consensus forming here? [http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/unilateral](http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/unilateral) ---
**Author:** ![Astral\_Rejection](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/258eb7/32.png) [@Astral\_Rejection](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Astral_Rejection)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2011, 3:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/glasnost-mafia/571757/776 "2011-03-02T15:33:57Z")
**Vote Drain Bead.** Boom. ---
**Author:** ![Drain\_Bead](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e47774/32.png) [@Drain\_Bead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Drain_Bead)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2011, 3:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/glasnost-mafia/571757/777 "2011-03-02T15:58:27Z")
Damn it, Astral, I wanted to hammer myself. ---
**Author:** ![Zeriel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/58956e/32.png) [@Zeriel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zeriel)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2011, 4:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/glasnost-mafia/571757/778 "2011-03-02T16:26:00Z")
You might as well vote in case we’ve miscounted. 😛 ---
**Author:** ![sachertorte](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sachertorte/32/3727_2.png) [@sachertorte](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sachertorte)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2011, 4:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/glasnost-mafia/571757/779 "2011-03-02T16:37:27Z")
> [@Zeriel](#): > > I am, as always, categorically and completely opposed to any attempts by town to coerce, vote, poll, or otherwise decide who the vig (or any town power role) will target. I consider all such attempts to be anti-town. How very Pleonast-eqsue of you. Optimizing the use of Town powers is pro-town. All such attempts to optimize Town Powers is pro-Town. > [@pedescribe](#): > > Yes, I do acknowledge that that’s how the game works. But…okay, so if you think it’s a good idea, would you suggest doing it every Day, or just toDay? If not, why not? By the numbers, I think it would make sense to use all the time. Two lynches are better than one. To some degree in past games Vigilante’s have taken an implicit straw poll by killing off the second lead vote getter. I think formalizing the process would be better since it allows for higher stakes for coming in second and opportunity to claim. However, such a plan is woefully difficult to implement. We have hard enough time killing off one person a day. In this particular case with Drain Bead, the mechanics seem more amenable to the process. We have a solid lynch, so much so that the vote record will not reflect anything of interest. In this case I think the argument for a second lynch is even better, but still the herding of cats issue prevents its implementation on a practical level. > [@Wolverine](#): > > Anyone still here? There’s been on average a post an hour over the past 17 hours (including fluff) with no posts for the past 8 hours. > > I think too many people are silent and waiting for the Day to end. While some people still want use the time, I want to hear from more than just a few people. I’m ready for a lynch so we can wait for an additional 2 days before we can really get going again. > > **Vote Drain Bead** (which should bring the count up to 10 with 2 more needed for the hammer) > > On preview, I just saw Mahaloth’s post. Really? WTF? You’re getting impatient because we don’t post 24/7? Please note that I have a habit of sleeping. Your “past 8 hours” corresponds to 1AM-9AM EST. Don’t expect me to post during those times. Personally, I want to wait out the clock. If the Day end now, the next Day will start on Friday and be swallowed up by the weekend. While weekend issues are inevitable, I prefer to delay the inevitable for as long as possible. ---
**Author:** ![Zeriel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/58956e/32.png) [@Zeriel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zeriel)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2011, 4:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/glasnost-mafia/571757/780 "2011-03-02T16:44:50Z")
> [@sachertorte](#): > > How very Pleonast-eqsue of you. Optimizing the use of Town powers is pro-town. All such attempts to optimize Town Powers is pro-Town. Objection, assumes facts not in evidence. One of the greatest powers of the vig is that he’s NOT beholden to a town vote that (by necessity) includes scum and third-party/PFK actors. Optimal use of his powers requires him to judge to what extent town’s suspicions are modified by the hidden evil actors and act accordingly. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/glasnost-mafia/571757.md?page=38) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/glasnost-mafia/571757.md?page=40)