# Glasnost Mafia **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [February 17, 2011, 11:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/glasnost-mafia/571757 "2011-02-17T23:58:11Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 43
**Author:** ![special\_ed](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5ac83/32.png) [@special\_ed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/special_ed)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2011, 5:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/glasnost-mafia/571757/841 "2011-03-05T17:39:58Z")
> [@Suburban\_Plankton](#): > > I’m pretty certain since he told us he was blocked last Night that he’s not going to have much to add Today. Yeah, um oops. I missed that ---
**Author:** ![sachertorte](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sachertorte/32/3727_2.png) [@sachertorte](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sachertorte)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2011, 6:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/glasnost-mafia/571757/842 "2011-03-05T18:07:56Z")
I’m not feeling the Gadarene case. I find it entirely plausible that Gadarene was pushing for Mental Guy to die because he thought Mental Guy was scum. I feel that Gadarene’s words are sincere. I have a hard time believing that a scummy Gadarene could advocate for Mental Guy’s lynch so convincingly. Mahaloth I could get on board with, but my ‘case,’ if you can call it that, is more of a pondering than an outright ‘I think he’s scum.’ In post 797: > [@Mahaloth](#): > > And a sigh of relief overcomes us all(well, all of us that are Town, anyway). 🙂 Which is the standard “yay” post after a good lynch, but I’m puzzled by two things: (1) Why relief? While it is good that Drain Bead turned up the bomber, I’m not sure if I would describe my feelings as relieved. That isn’t to say that others would feel the same way as I do, but relieved seems off to me. (2) The us-townies disclaimer piques my interest in Mahaloth. I don’t understand why he felt the need for the disclaimer. (3) Scum would be content with the lynch of Drain Bead. Drain Bead was a barrier to their own win condition and could have killed scum as well. Why can’t scum be relieved as well? Mahaloth is correct in one way. Scum would know that Mental Guy is not scum and therefore telling the truth. In other words, Drain Bead’s reveal is not a surprise to scum. In that sense scum would not be ‘relieved.’ Therefore my ‘case’ against Mahaloth is that I think his emotions in post 797 are not genuine and that he is faking a reaction to Drain Bead’s reveal. **vote Mahaloth** ---
**Author:** ![Suburban\_Plankton](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/suburban_plankton/32/219_2.png) [@Suburban\_Plankton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Suburban_Plankton)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2011, 7:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/glasnost-mafia/571757/843 "2011-03-05T19:49:09Z")
This has been a difficult game for me to get a read on. Pleonast was so over-the-top on Day 1 that I’m finding it hard to judge the motivations of folks as they relate to him, and Day 2 was such a foregone conclusion that voting patterns are of almost no use. So I’m rereading and simply looking for things that ‘stand out’. There were a few posts from Day 1 that stood out for me, which I don’t think have had much discusion. From Zeriel, near the end of the Day > [@Zeriel](#): > > Okay, someone NEEDS to switch off MentalGuy. > > \*\*Pleonast \*\*and \*\*Astral \*\*are now the two most suspicious people in the game–here’s why. With a tie, we have a 6.25% chance of “lynch all”, and a 93.75% chance of “no lynch”. It is almost NEVER in town’s best interest to have a “no lynch”, because it denies us information. Both players I’ve bolded have moved their vote to force a tie, without any acknowledgement that they have done so, despite SEVERAL unofficial vote counts. > > As I am voting for Pleo already, I cannot break the tie in favor of someone I find more scummy. I will, if necessary, switch to MentalGuy solely to break the tie and get some information out of the end-of-day vote patterns/switches. He seems quite certain of \*\*MentalGuy’s \*\*Town status here, which seems rather qurprising given his ( **MentalGuy’s** ) behavior up to that point. Then he lists \*\*Pleonast \*\*and \*\*Astral \*\*as the two scummiest people in the game, but ends the post by saying he will switch his vote to \*\*\*MentalGuy \*\*\*if needed to break the tie. If he’s so sure that \*\*MentalGuy \*\*is Town that people NEED to switch off him, and he thinks \*\*Astral \*\*is “most suspicious”, then why wouldn’t he switch his vote to \*\*Astral \*\*if he was going to switch? Then there were these posts by **septimus** > [@septimus](#): > > No one has yet mentioned that the special mechanics of _this_ game introduce unusual considerations into the lynching of a claimed vanilla town. I planned on commenting on this toMorrow, but with the game delayed I’ll blurt it out now, at least in cryptic form. > > I _think_ it’s wisest here to delay the lynch of a claimed vanilla town; that’s one reason why I’m not voting Pleonast. > [@septimus](#): > > While I still believe that **Idle** ’s vote against **Mahaloth** was more reasonable than **Mahaloth** ’s vote against **Wolverine** , on re-read I no longer find **Mahaloth** most suspicious. (For one thing, I suspected **Mahaloth** when he was Town in Halloween Mafia a few months ago – I think I just have trouble reading him.) > > The case made against **Astral Rejection** seems strong. I am relying in large measure on my assessment of the experience and skill of those voting against **Astral** , but I think that’s a reasonable basis for my play. > > **Unvote Mahaloth** > > **Vote Astral Rejection** > > I think it might be a slight mistake to Lynch **Pleonast** toDay. There are tactical reasons to keep a claimed Vanilla Townie alive, at least for a while. > [@septimus](#): > > I’m sorry; I just don’t see why Mental’s vote is clearly scummy. Yes, he might be voting Pleo even though he suspects Septimus or Astral more. But Septimus isn’t in Lynch contention – it would be a wasted vote; and several players have implied (though I disagree) that Lynching claimed vanilla might be playing the odds: even if Pleo isn’t Scum, he might be Sleeper. It could be that \*\*septimus \*\*just “doesn’t get it” even after it was explained in great detail. But if he thinks that \*\*\*\*Pleonast \*\*\*\*shouldn’t be lynched, and thinks \*\*Astral \*\*should, then how can he not see \*\*MentalGuy’s \*\*vote as Scummy? ---
**Author:** ![Mahaloth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mahaloth/32/1079_2.png) [@Mahaloth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mahaloth)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2011, 8:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/glasnost-mafia/571757/844 "2011-03-05T20:30:06Z")
> [@sachertorte](#): > > Therefore my ‘case’ against Mahaloth is that I think his emotions in post 797 are not genuine and that he is faking a reaction to Drain Bead’s reveal. Absolutely ridiculous. Sach’s case is clearly one where he just went back, tried to find someone to put a vote on, picked me, and then fabricated a case based on a loose/wild interpretation of something said. I meant that we are relieved that Drain turned out to be what we were lynching her for and she was not innocent. That is all. ---
**Author:** ![Mahaloth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mahaloth/32/1079_2.png) [@Mahaloth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mahaloth)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2011, 8:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/glasnost-mafia/571757/845 "2011-03-05T20:32:20Z")
Oh, and Manwich’s case is ridiculous too, and false. Both Manwich and Sach have fabricated cases against me. They just went back, said a few general things(or one general thing) and then slapped a vote on me. Absolute foolishness, both of their votes. ---
**Author:** ![Astral\_Rejection](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/258eb7/32.png) [@Astral\_Rejection](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Astral_Rejection)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2011, 8:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/glasnost-mafia/571757/846 "2011-03-05T20:33:05Z")
I had forgotten that post by Septimus. Sachertorte corrects him immediately afterwards. Septimus then posts to edit his previous post to say pretty much [the exact same thing](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=13503723&postcount=351). There’s a shade of difference between the two… the first tells us outright not to lynch Pleo, and the second suggests we should wait some indeterminate time before lynching them. I’m curious how long he meant for us to wait… a few hours? A day? A Day? He then [repeats himself regarding Pleo](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=13506652&postcount=409)… in a post that really has nothing to do with Pleo. In fact, Pleo’s danger is rapidly decreasing. He talks about Mahaloth, Wolverine, Idle, and finally settles on voting for me, which is fair enough. But then he shoehorns in ANOTHER reminder that we shouldn’t be voting for Pleo, because it’s better to keep a claimed vanilla alive, for whatever reason. He keeps mentioning tactical reasons, but I can’t think of any outside of letting scum win. **Unvote.** **Vote Septimus.** Later tonight, I’ll work on investigating other leads. I’ll let you guys know what I find. ---
**Author:** ![GuiriEnEspana](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/bc79bd/32.png) [@GuiriEnEspana](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GuiriEnEspana)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2011, 8:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/glasnost-mafia/571757/847 "2011-03-05T20:55:17Z")
> [@Mahaloth](#): > > Absolute foolishness, both of their votes. FWIW I partially agree. They could have voted you for the reasoning given in your vote on **Wolverine** , your apparent backtrack after you were questioned, your defence of **Pleo** ’s playstyle, trying to divert attention away from you to **Idle** , not responding to **Manwich** until after you’d realized the Day hadn’t finished, poking **Gadarene** for his fluff comment, and your approach to the hammer - all of which could have a scum motivation. But they didn’t. I’d like to hear what **Manwich** meant by “a lot of innocent statements”, I count **Wolverine** ’s “claimants of failed recruitment are confirmed Town” but he followed that up with a vote, and **Gadarene** ’s Night fluff - we don’t know either player’s alignment. Maybe also **Drain** ’s question to **Pleo** although hers can’t really be considered “innocent”. I do agree with **Sache** about your use of “all of us that are Town” as a possible attempt at over-townifying yourself and possible a feigned reaction to a dead 3rd party but I don’t it’s enough for a vote. ---
**Author:** ![sachertorte](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sachertorte/32/3727_2.png) [@sachertorte](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sachertorte)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2011, 9:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/glasnost-mafia/571757/848 "2011-03-05T21:25:10Z")
> [@Mahaloth](#): > > Absolutely ridiculous. > > Sach’s case is clearly one where he just went back, tried to find someone to put a vote on, picked me, and then fabricated a case based on a loose/wild interpretation of something said. > > I meant that we are relieved that Drain turned out to be what we were lynching her for and she was not innocent. That is all. No. I noticed your post back when you first posted it. I couldn’t comment on it until now. “Us Townies” phrasing perks my ears up. I looked at your post and I’m trying to assess whether or not it is genuine. My conclusion is that it is not. ‘relief’ was not what I thought when I saw Drain Bead’s reveal. If others want to defend that feeling ‘relieved’ is a legitimate reaction to Drain Bead’s reveal, I’m open to hearing it. Until then, I think ‘relief’ is off the mark and an attempt of scum to pretend to be town. I would also like septimus to explain his Day One thinking regarding Pleonast, Pleonast’s Vanilla Claim, and vanilla claims as they pertain to this specific game. ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2011, 9:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/glasnost-mafia/571757/849 "2011-03-05T21:33:19Z")
> [@septimus](#): > > I think it might be a slight mistake to Lynch **Pleonast** toDay. There are tactical reasons to keep a claimed Vanilla Townie alive, at least for a while. There have been questions about this, so let me explain it. I’ll begin with the simplest possible scenario. (Admittedly, there are various gambits and WIFOM ploys by Scum that could invalidate this simplest scenario.) Each Night, Scum will presumably try to find a Sleeper. If they target a Vanilla Town they have 2 chances in 10 of succeeding. (2 in 9 now.) Otherwise their chance is 2 in 17 (2 in 14 now), or rather, to be precise, (2 - V/5) in 17, where V is the number of confirmed Vanilla Townies. In other words, if playing the odds they will choose a “confirmed” Vanilla as their recruitment target. I assumed that Pleo was either Vanilla Town as claimed or Scum. (Perhaps he’d also make the claim as Bomber, but let’s keep it simple.) Scum certainly knew whether he was Scum or not, so might have taken their 2-in-10 chance at recruitment. Hence the idea of waiting at least one Day. If Pleo was indeed Vanilla, he might report a recruitment attempt, which would tend to confirm(\*) him as Town after all. If no one, or someone else, reported recruitment, we could then Lynch (or Vig-kill) Pleo! By no means would this prove him to be Scum, but since a Day 1 Lynch of Pleo was already underway, to wait a Day, gain evidence increasing the likelihood of his scumminess, but still MisLynch isn’t particularly worse than the Day 1 MisLynch which would have been in progress. And, most importantly, it might be that Pleo was in fact the Sleeper! He claims as Vanilla Town because he thinks he is one, gets Scummified in the Night-time, Lynched Day 2 (or even a little later) in my scenario, and Town has gained a Doctor! (\*) True, Scum might waste their Night 1 recruitment just to semi-confirm a scummy Pleo as Town. Moreover, understanding the scenario I just described, they might be unlikely to attempt a recruitment of the claimed Vanilla. Indeed, for these reasons, it can be said I was hoping for Scum misplay. And that’s why I left the details of my reasoning vague. HTH. ---
**Author:** ![special\_ed](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5ac83/32.png) [@special\_ed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/special_ed)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2011, 9:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/glasnost-mafia/571757/850 "2011-03-05T21:42:38Z")
@sachertorte, what are your thoughts on Astral now? ```auto Other things I'd like to remind myself 1. Mahaloth's defensiveness. It reminds me of myself in some ways. Is it out of character for a Townie Mahaloth? 2. Gadarebne;s seeming attempt to influence others to worry about how they would look rather than voting for Scum. As well as post 487 pings me too. 3. Astral's comments on Day 1 that earned my vote. ``` As to the sleeper: 1. No one has claimed to have gotten the message yet. However not everyone has claimed. 2. Idle claimed to have gotten the message Night 1, even though he did not claim vanilla this game, and someone else had. (Suburban, possibly inadvertently) ---
**Author:** ![GuiriEnEspana](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/bc79bd/32.png) [@GuiriEnEspana](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GuiriEnEspana)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2011, 10:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/glasnost-mafia/571757/851 "2011-03-05T22:43:18Z")
**Mahaloth** D1-N2:[Spoiler]Day 1 98 Group awareness should help avoid accidental or malicious hammering 105 Asks mods if jailer can self-jail 112 Comments on mod’s response 146 To **Astral** , let the Vig decide 147 Votes **Wolverine** for being confident that a claim of wakening attempt is confirmation of Town, doesn’t understand his explanation 167 To **Idle** , finds vote pathetic, was not convinced of (and did not understand) **Wolverine** ’s explanation 168 NETA 177 Doesn’t find **Pleo** ’s beliefs scummy, comments on self-preservation votes 195/196 Removes spreadsheet (217 **Suburban** votes **Mahaloth** ) 219 Defends vote, was not “me too” as he explained his vote, was not satisfied by explanation 222 Explains vote reasoning 234 Was early Day 1 vote, thinks **Wolverine** was not thinking townishly, would unvote if he gave clearer explanation (241 **Wolverine** explains, votes **Mahaloth** ) 242 Comments on **Pleo** ’s multivote, doesn’t buy **Wolverine** ’s explanation that he was thinking “too townishly” 246 Comments on **Pleo** ’s playstyle: “It’s his way, he sticks to it” (265 **Manwich** votes **Mahaloth** ) (284 **Septimus** votes **Mahaloth** ) 287 Asks for a vote count (it’s Pleo-6, Maha-5, Astral-2) 289 Defends vote, thinks build-up is lazy and suspects scum jumping on 291 Expresses suspicion of **Idle** and **Wolverine** , unvotes and votes **Idle** for laying low and dropping a weak vote 298 To **Zeriel** , suspects **Idle** won’t be back with defence, can’t believe **Idle** ’s got no other votes 300 To **Drain** , wonders if she’s just trying to stir the pot with her question to **Pleo** 301 To **Idle** , thinks he’s scum for the lazy vote and lack of participation 339 Asks for a vote count (there was just 1 vote since the previous count in 324, it’s Pleo-8, Maha-5, Astral-3) 352 Asks again for a vote count 363 Thought Day had ended, links to countdown clock 365 Missed announcement 367 Comment on Day end 369 Comment to **Ed** on quote format 379 To **Manwich** , who asked in 353 shortly before Day was originally due to end, responds to questions about vote. Did not delay explanation, was not a lazy vote, thinks **Idle** is scummy and wonders why more don’t see it 382 Comments on case against **Pleo** , agrees that case is more about disagreement than scumminess 385 To **Pleo** , about his comment on not needing to offer wine to his scum team, doesn’t believe that he only claims when Town 386 Asks everyone for thoughts on **Idle** (409 **Septimus** unvotes) (444 **Suburban** unvotes to vote **Pleo** ) Night 1 562 Night fluff, amazed that **Pleo** was scum 2 games in a row 570/573/580 Fluff Day 2 603 Questions **Gadarene** about Night comment 605 Votes **Idle** 614 Explains question to **Gadarene** , it looked like he knew something special was going to happen, unvotes and votes **Drain** 615 Clarifies comment 621 To **Drain** who said to “watch the number of time he’s tried to poke at people and backed off”, counts 0 times 622 Asks her to list the times (623 **Drain** mentions 1 from memory- the time he accused her of stirring the pot to keep talking about **Pleo** ) 626 Responds, did not back down, suspicions are her, **Idle** and **Wolverine** 635 Comments on votes and number needed to hammer 684 Suggests time limit for hammer 690 To **Drain** , her death will be useful even if she’s Town 707 Let Day continue if there’s “good” conversation 712 Asks **Drain** to share what she’s thinking before she dies 736 Pushes for hammer 761 Agrees with **Zeriel** that the Vig should decide what to do 768 “Are we ready to hammer or is there more to discuss?” 773 To **Pede** , not rushing but doesn’t want Day to get boring, invites anyone who has anything to discuss to do so but wonders why they’d wait 787 Fluff? Lynch cannot be undone 797 Fluff “And a sigh of relief overcomes us all(well, all of us that are Town, anyway).” [/spoiler]Comments: - I was pinged by his vote on **Wolverine** , it really reads like he simply didn’t understand **Wolverine** and so voted him. He tried to repaint it in a better light the more he was questioned and a questionable scum motive for **Wolverine** ’s statement eventually came out. It wasn’t in any way obvious to me. - I can’t help but wonder if his case against **Idle** was an attempt to divert attention away from him (and possibly **Pleo** ). His vote on **Wolverine** had caused him to gain heat and so he appears to shelve that case to vote for **Idle** and comments or asks why others don’t vote him (3 times): > [@Mahaloth](#): > > I’ve explained my vote on Wolverine, but why aren’t we discussing Idle? > […] > In fact, he’s more scummy than Wolverine to me. I’d be that one or both of these guys are scum. > [@Mahaloth](#): > > I can not believe he [**Idle**] has not collected votes for his play style so far. > [@Mahaloth](#): > > I get the chaos around Pleonast, but I am surprised more players don’t see the scumminess of Idle’s Day One playing. > [@Mahaloth](#): > > What do you all think of Idle? I made my case and it seems to have gained little traction. /snips - I’m not sure what to make of his interest in the vote counts - waiting to respond to **Manwich** till he realized Day wasn’t over appears to be playing very cautiously - His initial suggestion for a time to hammer and his final suggestion seem OK, it’s #736 where he says “Sorry if I am in the minority, but let’s just do this thing.” pings me. There was conversation going on - maybe not what he considered “good conversation” but I’m not sure what “bad conversation” in a game of mafia could be, apart from pure fluff - I agree with **sache** that his Night fluff comment does seem somewhat feigned I need to complete a review of **Astral** ’s play before I vote. ---
**Author:** ![Mahaloth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mahaloth/32/1079_2.png) [@Mahaloth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mahaloth)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2011, 11:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/glasnost-mafia/571757/852 "2011-03-05T23:38:26Z")
> [@GuiriEnEspana](#): > > - I was pinged by his vote on **Wolverine** , it really reads like he simply didn’t understand **Wolverine** and so voted him. He tried to repaint it in a better light the more he was questioned and a questionable scum motive for **Wolverine** ’s statement eventually came out. It wasn’t in any way obvious to me. > - I can’t help but wonder if his case against **Idle** was an attempt to divert attention away from him (and possibly **Pleo** ). His vote on **Wolverine** had caused him to gain heat and so he appears to shelve that case to vote for **Idle** and comments or asks why others don’t vote him (3 times):/snips > - I’m not sure what to make of his interest in the vote counts > - waiting to respond to **Manwich** till he realized Day wasn’t over appears to be playing very cautiously > - His initial suggestion for a time to hammer and his final suggestion seem OK, it’s #736 where he says “Sorry if I am in the minority, but let’s just do this thing.” pings me. There was conversation going on - maybe not what he considered “good conversation” but I’m not sure what “bad conversation” in a game of mafia could be, apart from pure fluff > - I agree with **sache** that his Night fluff comment does seem somewhat feigned > > I need to complete a review of **Astral** ’s play before I vote. 1. I’m still not convinced Wolverine isn’t scum. 2. My case against Idle is because he’s playing scummy. No idea why he hasn’t been up for the lynch. 3. It was lame conversation, I think. That’s why I wanted to end it. 4. My Night fluff was nothing. Just a “whew” comment. Whatever. ---
**Author:** ![Mahaloth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mahaloth/32/1079_2.png) [@Mahaloth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mahaloth)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2011, 11:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/glasnost-mafia/571757/853 "2011-03-05T23:39:32Z")
Oh, and I wanted a vote count because I wasn’t, at the time, sure how close I was to being lynched. ---
**Author:** ![Gadarene](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47c2d/32.png) [@Gadarene](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gadarene)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2011, 11:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/glasnost-mafia/571757/854 "2011-03-05T23:54:19Z")
Just checking in… I’m in Atlantic City playing poker this weekend and am thus out of pocket. I’ll take a closer look at the conversation toDay and post more when I can. ---
**Author:** ![GuiriEnEspana](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/bc79bd/32.png) [@GuiriEnEspana](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GuiriEnEspana)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2011, 12:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/glasnost-mafia/571757/855 "2011-03-06T00:18:32Z")
Updating my Day 1 WoW on **Astral** : #58- a confirmation #70- oog fluff #73- oog fluff #131-generic strategy question about Vigs #151-a question to **Zeriel** about why he refers to **Astral** ’s comment as “town-style foolishness” (to which **Zeriel** replied but **Astral** made no further comment) #266 Analyzes non-voters/lurkers, timing of **Cookies** ’ vote on **Pleo** does not seem scummy. **Tom** ’s vote could be opportunistic, points out interactions between **Septimus** ’ two votes. Has no comments on **Wolverine** - **Mahaloth**. I strike him as scummy for laying low while trying to look like I’m not laying low. Will cut **Manwich** some slack. Will withold judgement on **Story**. Satisfied with **Wanderers**. Finds **Special** insightful. Votes **Tom** with me next-scummiest. #267 Fluff re: typo #279 To **Special** , is not voting me, case was not made up, has no case against me, just a gut feeling #282 To me, doesn’t agree that he misrepresented my posts, I’m being over defensive for a Day 1 smudge, admits to having a different standard as I’m a strong player #308 To **Sache** , who asked about **Zeriel** ’s response re: towniness, is satisfied, not willing to cast a vote, question was just to gauge his response #315 To **Ed** , did not single me out, simply was second scummiest based on posts, everyone is laying low now #319 To **Sache** , asked **Zeriel** as it could have been a slip, was satisfied with response, not over-defensive like mine was #361 Fluff re Day end #364 Fluff re Day end #371 Fluff re Day end #420 To **Mental** , can’t vote for someone who you believe is more townie than another, points out contradiction in unvote of **Pleo** and later vote, votes **Mental** , acknowledges tie but **Mental** is best lead #541 Unvotes **Mental**. To **Zeriel** , doesn’t believe he caused the tie, it was **Suburban** , but could be wrong. Why single him out when there was a whole flurry of votes and unvotes? Doesn’t have time to find another target, not feeling vote on **Tom** , my response was troubling. To **Sache** , if he finds **Astral** scummy, should vote, why vote **Astral** if he wants **Pleo** dead? #547 No time to build a case, will not vote. No longer suspicious of **Tom** , is suspicious of me and is pinged by **Zeriel** but no case there. “I suspect there’s a chance I could be vigged tonight…”, asks to follow up on these leads #555 Fluff, was wrong about **Pleo** #568 Fluff #574 Fluff #587 Fluff #659 Kudos to jailor, urges jailor and cop to remain silent if **Mental** is lying, places temporary vote on **Drain** , re-read thread, comments on **Zeriel** - poor case but otherwise extremely townie. Notes he did force a tie on Day 1. Ton of suspicion of me, no vote on **Pleo** , claims I defended **Pleo** , misrepresented **Astral** , OMGUS voted him, quantity of posts and timing of last post, leaning scum but **Drain** is a better target #674 Points out number of votes required to hammer, suggests holding off till everyone weighs in #676 To **Manwich** , isn’t sure that everyone has weighed in #670 To **Sache** , **OaOW** has participated, just waiting for **Story** , give him a chance to speak #720 Agrees with **OaOW** that we should not tell the jailor what to do, if **Mental** is lying, Vig can look after him. Asks about odds of successful scum recruitment Day 1, 1 in 10? Maybe scum will send message to another scum in order to gain partial confirmation as has happened with **Idle** #735 To **Gadarene** , who has misinterpreted **Astral** ’s post as referring to Day/Night 3, does not understand why previous is ridiculous #739 To **Gadarene** , still doesn’t understand #752 To **Special** , we can still look for scum while voting **Drain** , encourages everyone else to do what he’s done toDay #755 Fluff #776 Votes **Drain** to end Day #793 To **Story** , who symbolically voted **Astral** and **Maha** for stifling conversation, why doesn’t he mention others who wanted to hammer as that seemed to be the consensus. #807 Comment on lack of Night kills #811 Asks **Mahaloth** to explain vote on **Idle** #813 Asks **Mahaloth** if he thinks **Idle** lied about the recruitment attempt #830 Responds to **Idle** on Day2 non-voters. “The case [**Septimus** ’] on Gadarene mirrors my thoughts” #846 In response to **Suburban** ’s comments on **Septimus** , votes **Septimus** for seemingly wanting to delay **Pleo** ’s lynch (or the lynch of any claimed VT)Comments: - She keeps referring to me as a she 🙂 - He subtly accused **Zeriel** of PIS - His only comment about **Pleo** all Day was in #266: “I’m not particularly feeling the Pleo case and it doesn’t need my help even if I did.” - The smudge(s) on me - His vote for **Mental** seems fine and he acknowledges forcing a tie but it does help both himself and **Pleo** - I don’t see why he’d intentionally deny forcing a tie so I take his protestation to **Zeriel** as an honest error but it may have been a factor in **Gadarene** ’s decision not to vote him in #543 (after previously putting him second most suspicious behind **Mental** based on the tie vote (#468)) - Given his repeated suspicions of me and his comment on **Sachertorte** , I don’t see how he could end the Day without any sort of a vote. He ended the Day with this: > [@Astral\_Rejection](#): > > Guiri and Zeriel are my two big picks here on Day 1. I suspect there’s a chance I could be vigged tonight, as a lot of folks are suspicious of me. If I’m dead tomorrow, I’d hope someone would follow up on one of those two leads. - A commentless “me too” vote on **Gadarene** without apparently checking **Septimus** ’ case : > [@septimus](#): > > For a while, **Gadarene** had a vote on **Pleo** but he was much less adamant about that choice. Indeed in post #391 he kept his vote on Pleo despite that Pleo “pings town for me” – just the illogical vote-comment relationship he later jumped on **MentalGuy** so strongly for He’d unvoted in #384. - The quick unvote without comment on **Gadarene** (or me!) to jump on **Septimus** - who he’d just voted with I find him the scummiest so far **Vote Astral** ---
**Author:** ![Manwich](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e480ec/32.png) [@Manwich](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Manwich)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2011, 2:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/glasnost-mafia/571757/856 "2011-03-06T02:44:39Z")
I agree my explanation for my vote was lazy, and my play in general has been pretty lazy. Sorry, I have been busier than I thought I would be and people tend to be most active when I am asleep or at work. I also haven’t been very clear in some statements. Saying Mahaloth “jump[ed] on a lot of what were (to me) innocent statements” was a poor choice of words and an exaggeration. I meant in a few cases, he was suspicious of statements that did not sound remotely suspicious to me, not that the statements have been verified as innocent. He could be correct in his suspicions but it just seemed like he was trying a little too hard to see scuminess sometimes. I think he has a good point about Idle and scum shouldn’t get away with lurking, so I am not voting for him for that reason. Of course, if Idle is town, focusing attention on him could be a scum strategy too. I am not that suspicious of his not responding to me in particular to me because he had been defending himself in other posts anyway, and when he did respond, he pretty much said what he already had. Not particularly suspicious about him wanting to hammer and end the day – I can see how he thought that not much was being said at that stage. But I still think the way he reacted to votes and questions was a weird mix of defensiveness and caution. He said “The buildup around me(and frankly, Pleo) is lazy, easy, and reeks of people just being happy it isn’t them that are up for the lynch.” but explains his own vote with “Dude, it’s an early Day One vote. It’s not the strongest in the world, but it wasn’t a “me too” either.” His responses just seemed a little over-the-top, and it is suspicious when combined with the fact that he didn’t fully explain his Wolverine vote until the 4th post. It just seemed like it took him a while to think of an explanation. And I find it a little suspicious that he doesn’t acknowledge that he at least could appear to have been creating an explanation after voting. I am not saying it is a great case, but I can’t understand why he says there is no case at all. After saying all that, the more I re-read his posts, the more I think it I am just overreacting to his style of play. I also admit I haven’t been paying enough attention to Astral, so I will re-read his posts and think some more. ---
**Author:** ![Mahaloth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mahaloth/32/1079_2.png) [@Mahaloth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mahaloth)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2011, 2:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/glasnost-mafia/571757/857 "2011-03-06T02:49:45Z")
> [@Manwich](#): > > His responses just seemed a little over-the-top, and it is suspicious when combined with the fact that he didn’t fully explain his Wolverine vote until the 4th post. It just seemed like it took him a while to think of an explanation. And I find it a little suspicious that he doesn’t acknowledge that he at least could appear to have been creating an explanation after voting. I am not saying it is a great case, but I can’t understand why he says there is no case at all. > > After saying all that, the more I re-read his posts, the more I think it I am just overreacting to his style of play. I also admit I haven’t been paying enough attention to Astral, so I will re-read his posts and think some more. 1. I disagree(again) that I did not explain the vote until the 4th post. 2. “a little” “seemed like…” “a little suspicious” “not saying it is a great case” - These phrases do not make me feel your vote on me is very legitimate. I’ve played a very solid, pro-Town game and there is no reason to vote for me. ---
**Author:** ![Manwich](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e480ec/32.png) [@Manwich](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Manwich)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2011, 3:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/glasnost-mafia/571757/858 "2011-03-06T03:11:23Z")
> [@Mahaloth](#): > > 1. I disagree(again) that I did not explain the vote until the 4th post. > > 2. “a little” “seemed like…” “a little suspicious” “not saying it is a great case” > > - These phrases do not make me feel your vote on me is very legitimate. I’ve played a very solid, pro-Town game and there is no reason to vote for me. 1. I have been saying you didn’t \*\*fully \*\*explain the vote until then. I agree you offered an explanation from the start. 2. I have to stop using weasel words. Somebody is almost certainly going to get lynched today and so far you are the most suspicious to me. Like I said, I am re-reading and will consider changing my vote. - I still don’t understand the whole “there is no reason” attitude. There are reasons to vote for a lot of players, including me. Even some of things you have said or done that aren’t suspicious to me could be another players reasons for voting. ---
**Author:** ![Trepa\_Mayfield](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/edb3f5/32.png) [@Trepa\_Mayfield](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trepa_Mayfield)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2011, 3:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/glasnost-mafia/571757/859 "2011-03-06T03:30:30Z")
> [@Suburban\_Plankton](#): > > From Zeriel, near the end of the Day > He seems quite certain of \*\*MentalGuy’s \*\*Town status here, which seems rather qurprising given his ( **MentalGuy’s** ) behavior up to that point. Then he lists \*\*Pleonast \*\*and \*\*Astral \*\*as the two scummiest people in the game, but ends the post by saying he will switch his vote to \*\*\*MentalGuy \*\*\*if needed to break the tie. If he’s so sure that \*\*MentalGuy \*\*is Town that people NEED to switch off him, and he thinks \*\*Astral \*\*is “most suspicious”, then why wouldn’t he switch his vote to \*\*Astral \*\*if he was going to switch? I don’t think you even read the post you quoted. Zeriel said nothing about being sure that Mental was town. He said that someone needed to break the tie because ties are inherently anti-town in this game. Further, he lists Pleo and Astral as suspicious because they _created_ the tie. That case is nothing but slander and that’s good enough for a vote in my book. [color] **Vote SubPlank** [/color] ---
**Author:** ![Trepa\_Mayfield](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/edb3f5/32.png) [@Trepa\_Mayfield](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trepa_Mayfield)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2011, 3:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/glasnost-mafia/571757/860 "2011-03-06T03:32:58Z")
**Vote SubPlank** [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/glasnost-mafia/571757.md?page=42) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/glasnost-mafia/571757.md?page=44)