# Glasnost Mafia **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [February 17, 2011, 11:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/glasnost-mafia/571757 "2011-02-17T23:58:11Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 51
**Author:** ![Manwich](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e480ec/32.png) [@Manwich](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Manwich)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2011, 12:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/glasnost-mafia/571757/1001 "2011-03-08T12:44:57Z")
> [@One\_And\_Only\_Wanderers](#): > > Why is sach in the hole if it turns out there was no recruit so therefore no doc?Shouldn’t whoever is the second most likely lynch target fill that role? Sure, I meant the idea in general. Any claimed vanilla town can fill the shoes, I think. ---
**Author:** ![special\_ed](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5ac83/32.png) [@special\_ed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/special_ed)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2011, 12:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/glasnost-mafia/571757/1002 "2011-03-08T12:45:04Z")
> [@One\_And\_Only\_Wanderers](#): > > Why is sach in the hole if it turns out there was no recruit so therefore no doc?Shouldn’t whoever is the second most likely lynch target fill that role? The Vig needs to shoot at someone who isn’t a power role. ---
**Author:** ![Manwich](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e480ec/32.png) [@Manwich](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Manwich)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2011, 12:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/glasnost-mafia/571757/1003 "2011-03-08T12:46:25Z")
Not ETA: Or anyone we feel is more lynch-worthy. ---
**Author:** ![sachertorte](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sachertorte/32/3727_2.png) [@sachertorte](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sachertorte)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2011, 12:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/glasnost-mafia/571757/1004 "2011-03-08T12:48:27Z")
> [@special\_ed](#): > > You are asking everyone to claim their actual role except for the Vigilante. The Vigilante is to claim Vanilla in order to remain hidden. NO Everyone claims “Vanilla” or “Not Vanilla” Except for the Vigilante who will also claim “Vanilla” ---
**Author:** ![sachertorte](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sachertorte/32/3727_2.png) [@sachertorte](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sachertorte)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2011, 12:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/glasnost-mafia/571757/1005 "2011-03-08T12:51:11Z")
> [@special\_ed](#): > > Of course, I do find it very strange that a mass claim now seems so plausible when you, I don’t know, DIDN’T MENTION SOMETHING?!@!!! > > 😃 Yeah yeah yeah. Whatever. Technically it isn’t a mass claim though. We are only dividing into Vanilla and non-vanilla groups. Power roles should not reveal what powers they have. Also the Vigilante is lying. This isn’t a typical mass claim. ---
**Author:** ![Manwich](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e480ec/32.png) [@Manwich](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Manwich)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2011, 12:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/glasnost-mafia/571757/1006 "2011-03-08T12:52:48Z")
Damn simulposts: Now I see that not any lynch candidate is ideal: we DO need a claimed vanilla to avoid hitting power roles. ---
**Author:** ![sachertorte](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sachertorte/32/3727_2.png) [@sachertorte](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sachertorte)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2011, 12:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/glasnost-mafia/571757/1007 "2011-03-08T12:54:10Z")
> [@Zeriel](#): > > I was under the impression that masons were also to claim vanilla to deepen the pool? Since we have mahaloth alive and in the open, any masons who do claim have an instant check. Handy Chart for claims: Vanilla Town claim Vanilla Town Vigilante claims Vanilla Town Mason claims Not Vanilla Town Jailer claims Not Vanilla Town Doc claims Not Vanilla Town Cop already claimed but would have claimed Not Vanilla Town Godfather claims Scum Scum claim Scum Simple right?! ---
**Author:** ![sachertorte](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sachertorte/32/3727_2.png) [@sachertorte](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sachertorte)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2011, 1:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/glasnost-mafia/571757/1008 "2011-03-08T13:04:02Z")
The post in response was meant to be fun, but I forgot the smile faces. In response to Septimus, It is true that divide and conquer can not guarantee a win (if it could I would ask for the game to be called right now) but it puts scum in a terrible position. We still play the game, but in a much more powerful position where we isolate the scum into sub-groups. We still have to rely on playing the game to flesh out scum (which is the point of the game right?). The hope is that our lynch and the Vig kills won’t be ‘random,’ but guided by the vote record and behavior to find scum. Divide and conquer maximizes the power of the Vig to do so without hurting the Town by hitting a Town Power role. Scum have a tricky decision to make. Claiming Vanilla puts them at risk of getting Vigged. Claiming Power Role puts them at risk of getting lynched. ---
**Author:** ![One\_And\_Only\_Wanderers](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/838e76/32.png) [@One\_And\_Only\_Wanderers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/One_And_Only_Wanderers)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2011, 1:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/glasnost-mafia/571757/1009 "2011-03-08T13:08:07Z")
> [@sachertorte](#): > > The post in response was meant to be fun, but I forgot the smile faces. > > In response to Septimus, It is true that divide and conquer can not guarantee a win (if it could I would ask for the game to be called right now) but it puts scum in a terrible position. We still play the game, but in a much more powerful position where we isolate the scum into sub-groups. We still have to rely on playing the game to flesh out scum (which is the point of the game right?). The hope is that our lynch and the Vig kills won’t be ‘random,’ but guided by the vote record and behavior to find scum. Divide and conquer maximizes the power of the Vig to do so without hurting the Town by hitting a Town Power role. Scum have a tricky decision to make. Claiming Vanilla puts them at risk of getting Vigged. Claiming Power Role puts them at risk of getting lynched. Additionally, once we know how many scum are hiding in which pool, would it be worth considerign the masons claiming as they can confirm each other, thus cutting down the power role pool even more? ---
**Author:** ![Mahaloth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mahaloth/32/1079_2.png) [@Mahaloth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mahaloth)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2011, 1:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/glasnost-mafia/571757/1010 "2011-03-08T13:13:12Z")
> [@Manwich](#): > > Or anyone we feel is more lynch-worthy. And apparently, you think this is me still? Unless I missed your unvote. ---
**Author:** ![sachertorte](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sachertorte/32/3727_2.png) [@sachertorte](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sachertorte)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2011, 1:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/glasnost-mafia/571757/1011 "2011-03-08T13:14:23Z")
> [@septimus](#): > > Anyway, please check my arithmetic. Assuming both sleepers have been awakened (a dangerous assumption), we have 4 scum, 7 vanilla, 1 vig and 6 other power roles (3 Masons, Jailer, Doc, Cop). If the scum and vig claim Vanilla, we have 6 powers and 12 others. Each Day we Lynch an “other”; each Night a Power and another die. (We need not worry about Lynching the Vig, if each Day an “other” steps forth and says “I am not the Vig.”) The counts go from 6-12 to 5-10 to 4-8 … finally to 1-2. The three last players will be Mason, Vig and Fake Vig; in that ending Town may have only a 50% chance. (This is identical to sachertorte’s analysis, I think, but he seems to assume Mason will know which Vig is the fake at the ending. I’ve probably overlooked something.) No one needs to claim Not-Vig. I’m not sure why you are thinking that. the “others” are all obviously not the Vig since they didn’t claim Vanilla. No Vanillas need to claim Not Vig either since the Vig already knows that information. Also if any Town powers trigger (Doc protect, Jail Protect, or Cop Investigation) we can out power scum that way too. ---
**Author:** ![Manwich](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e480ec/32.png) [@Manwich](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Manwich)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2011, 1:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/glasnost-mafia/571757/1012 "2011-03-08T13:15:12Z")
> [@Mahaloth](#): > > And apparently, you think this is me still? Unless I missed your unvote. Yep, I unvoted. And I corrected that statement. Things have changed! One last thought before bed, that I asked before: does scum targeting the Vig in the vanilla pool mess things up? ---
**Author:** ![sachertorte](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sachertorte/32/3727_2.png) [@sachertorte](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sachertorte)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2011, 1:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/glasnost-mafia/571757/1013 "2011-03-08T13:15:45Z")
> [@One\_And\_Only\_Wanderers](#): > > Additionally, once we know how many scum are hiding in which pool, would it be worth considerign the masons claiming as they can confirm each other, thus cutting down the power role pool even more? We can jump off that bridge when we get to it. My inclination is no, but we should re-evaluate when we have a feel for the number of scum in the power role set. ---
**Author:** ![sachertorte](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sachertorte/32/3727_2.png) [@sachertorte](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sachertorte)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2011, 1:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/glasnost-mafia/571757/1014 "2011-03-08T13:18:52Z")
> [@Manwich](#): > > Yep, I unvoted. And I corrected that statement. Things have changed! > > One last thought before bed, that I asked before: does scum targeting the Vig in the vanilla pool mess things up? They are certainly welcome to try! It will suck if they hit the Vig, but that should be a long shot at least at first. Eventually they will have better odds, but by then we should be in control of the game. Its a risk for them too. If they hit Vanilla instead of the Vig then they are helping us in our task of creating a confirmed Town pool and reducing the unconfirmed. ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2011, 1:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/glasnost-mafia/571757/1015 "2011-03-08T13:30:41Z")
> [@sachertorte](#): > > In response to Septimus, It is true that divide and conquer can not guarantee a win (if it could I would ask for the game to be called right now) but it puts scum in a terrible position. I’m beginning to think everyone except sachertorte saw “Septimus” at the top of a post and automatically ignored what followed. 😃 Two Vanilla claimants are all we need to get through the coming Day-Night cycle, and we already have them. I would ask what difference can it make to wait until Tomorrow to do the mass claim? The one difference I see is that claiming now it is very likely a Town power will be killed toNight. If we delay the claim until Tomorrow then, perhaps with Mahaloth Jailed and Mental Doc’ed, Scum may kill Vanilla or miskill altogether. Answering my own question, the mass claim protects the Vig from accidental NK if we assume Scum will direct their NK at the Powers. But I’m not sure they will: if they agree that **sachertorte** ’s plan leads to likely Town victory, they may deviate and try to guess who Vig is as their best chance. They don’t even need to do that toNight: as the pool of True Vanillas dwindles, Scum may be able to guess Vig’s identity long before the final rounds. In summary, I see much to be feared and little to be gained by giving four identities (2 Masons, Jailer, Doc) to Scum toDay, rather than waiting until Tomorrow. ---
**Author:** ![sachertorte](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sachertorte/32/3727_2.png) [@sachertorte](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sachertorte)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2011, 2:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/glasnost-mafia/571757/1016 "2011-03-08T14:15:54Z")
> [@septimus](#): > > In summary, I see much to be feared and little to be gained by giving four identities (2 Masons, Jailer, Doc) to Scum toDay, rather than waiting until Tomorrow. I agree to the extent that we’ve run out of time to enact the claim, and push for a lynch based on it that _will likely net scum_. That’s the advantage. If we have our separate pools then we lynch from the power one with powers able to claim to avoid lynch. A counter-claim stand-off is likely to happen, but we will know that one of them is scum. Thats the advantage of acting now. If we don’t lynch based on the vanilla claims, then the benefits are diminished. That’s my long way of saying I agree with septimus’s reservations. ---
**Author:** ![sachertorte](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sachertorte/32/3727_2.png) [@sachertorte](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sachertorte)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2011, 3:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/glasnost-mafia/571757/1017 "2011-03-08T15:23:36Z")
Since the mass Vanilla Claim seems to be out for Today. Let’s drop it for now and pick it up in the morning. I think we should try and determine the existence of a Doc. We need consensus on this point before nightfall. The proposal: **Jailer** jails **MentalGuy** (or not if he wants to play mind games with scum) **Mahaloth** chooses a Vanilla Target from the set { **sachertorte** , **Suburban Plankton** , **pedescribe** } **Vigilante** kills Vanilla Target chosen by Mahaloth **Doc** protects Vanilla Target chosen by Mahaloth Then tomorrow we will know whether or not we have a Doc. We need consensus so I call for an up and down vote on this proposal. With 18 players 9 is a split, 10 is a majority. **I vote Yes**. ---
**Author:** ![sachertorte](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sachertorte/32/3727_2.png) [@sachertorte](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sachertorte)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2011, 3:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/glasnost-mafia/571757/1018 "2011-03-08T15:25:11Z")
Or am I being overly paranoid about scum? What do we feel about the sleepers? I originally felt that the sleepers were activated, but I’ve drifted in my thinking. Am I being too paranoid? ---
**Author:** ![Mahaloth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mahaloth/32/1079_2.png) [@Mahaloth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mahaloth)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2011, 3:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/glasnost-mafia/571757/1019 "2011-03-08T15:41:51Z")
> [@sachertorte](#): > > Then tomorrow we will know whether or not we have a Doc. I’m probably going to embarass myself by revealing my ignorance here, but I thought we knew the roles. Aren’t they as below? \*\*Role Distribution 1 scum roleblocker 1 scum godfather 2 scum vanilla 2 sleepers 1 deranged bomber 1 town cop 1 town jailer 1 town vigilante 3 town masons 8 vanilla town \*\* ---
**Author:** ![Astral\_Rejection](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/258eb7/32.png) [@Astral\_Rejection](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Astral_Rejection)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2011, 3:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/glasnost-mafia/571757/1020 "2011-03-08T15:44:05Z")
If the scum activate a sleeper, the other sleeper becomes a town doc. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/glasnost-mafia/571757.md?page=50) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/glasnost-mafia/571757.md?page=52)