# Glasnost Mafia **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [February 17, 2011, 11:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/glasnost-mafia/571757 "2011-02-17T23:58:11Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 58
**Author:** ![One\_And\_Only\_Wanderers](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/838e76/32.png) [@One\_And\_Only\_Wanderers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/One_And_Only_Wanderers)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2011, 6:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/glasnost-mafia/571757/1141 "2011-03-12T06:30:39Z")
> [@MentalGuy](#): > > I agree with Cookies. On Night 2 the scum apparently targeted me to be killed. With Suburban’s slip, they would likely target him for awakening. That way, no matter which of us the jailer chose, they would either get rid of the cop or gain a teammate. > > **Vote Suburban Plankton** > Of the claim plans, I think I favor the Mason claim since it should keep the power roles hidden a bit better. I will admit I haven’t really studied the numbers yet, but I think either plan is preferable to doing nothing. What slip did Suburban make? Was it an apparent vanilla claim? ---
**Author:** ![ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e9bcb4/32.png) [@ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2011, 6:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/glasnost-mafia/571757/1142 "2011-03-12T06:52:15Z")
From Day 1: > [@Suburban\_Plankton](#): > > OK…what’s your point? > > If \*\*Pleonast \*\*does flip Scum, then I look great. > > But for all I know, \*\*Pleonast \*\*is Scum, I’m going to get him lynched today, and then Tonight I’ll find out I’m a Sleeper and get recruited. Wouldn’t \*that \*be awkward! > > I’m not particularly worried about how I might look in the future should certain people wind up with certain alignments. I’m trying to lynch the person who I feel is most likely to be Scum. ---
**Author:** ![Zeriel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/58956e/32.png) [@Zeriel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zeriel)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2011, 7:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/glasnost-mafia/571757/1143 "2011-03-12T07:29:54Z")
In other words, a goddamn joke about the recruiting mechanism, not even qualifiable as a vanilla claim. ---
**Author:** ![One\_And\_Only\_Wanderers](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/838e76/32.png) [@One\_And\_Only\_Wanderers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/One_And_Only_Wanderers)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2011, 8:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/glasnost-mafia/571757/1144 "2011-03-12T08:24:59Z")
> [@Zeriel](#): > > In other words, a goddamn joke about the recruiting mechanism, not even qualifiable as a vanilla claim. also sleepers do not start the game knowing they are sleepers, so you can’t slip on that. Off to Brum to watch FA cup 1/4 final will try to find a home for my vote later or tomorrow. ---
**Author:** ![Manwich](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e480ec/32.png) [@Manwich](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Manwich)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2011, 10:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/glasnost-mafia/571757/1145 "2011-03-12T10:30:59Z")
Not voting, not sure if I can contribute over the next few days, due to HUGE FUCKING EARTHQUAKE here in northern Japan. But we have electricity back for now, so I will see what I can do. ---
**Author:** ![ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e9bcb4/32.png) [@ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2011, 11:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/glasnost-mafia/571757/1146 "2011-03-12T11:00:30Z")
I didn’t know you were located there. Stay safe. ---
**Author:** ![GuiriEnEspana](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/bc79bd/32.png) [@GuiriEnEspana](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GuiriEnEspana)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2011, 11:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/glasnost-mafia/571757/1147 "2011-03-12T11:04:22Z")
Manwich, I hope you, your family and friends are well. Keep safe. ---
**Author:** ![peekercpa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/8baadc/32.png) [@peekercpa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/peekercpa)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2011, 1:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/glasnost-mafia/571757/1148 "2011-03-12T13:52:06Z")
> [@One\_And\_Only\_Wanderers](#): > > also sleepers do not start the game knowing they are sleepers, so you can’t slip on that. \ thank og that someone else made this comment. i was beginning to wonder if i was the only one that was thinking this. the only way this remotely makes sense as a slip is if he got recruited N1 and **idle** is lying scum, right? but then our doc would know that and **idle** is fracking toast. i mean a doc for a scum is a pretty durn good trade. of course i am not sure how that would play out in the calculations you folks are involved with. and while i understand mechanically what is trying to be accomplished to some extent what you folks are doing is what i do for a living and to a great extent i play this game to get away from that shit not to extend it into my home life. ---
**Author:** ![MentalGuy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/439d5e/32.png) [@MentalGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MentalGuy)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2011, 1:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/glasnost-mafia/571757/1149 "2011-03-12T13:54:18Z")
> [@One\_And\_Only\_Wanderers](#): > > What slip did Suburban make? Was it an apparent vanilla claim? Yes, it was an apparent vanilla claim. But I also realize that I made a mistake when I wrote that post. I made it sound like the scum were certain to gain a teammate if they targeted him for awakening and he was not jailed while obviously that is not the case. I still believe he was the most likely target, though, and the fact no one claimed to receive an “arise” message on Day 3 (along with other behavior Cookies listed) makes me think a recruitment took place. ---
**Author:** ![MentalGuy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/439d5e/32.png) [@MentalGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MentalGuy)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2011, 2:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/glasnost-mafia/571757/1150 "2011-03-12T14:29:59Z")
> [@peekercpa](#): > > \ > > thank og that someone else made this comment. i was beginning to wonder if i was the only one that was thinking this. > > the only way this remotely makes sense as a slip is if he got recruited N1 and **idle** is lying scum, right? but then our doc would know that and **idle** is fracking toast. i mean a doc for a scum is a pretty durn good trade. > > of course i am not sure how that would play out in the calculations you folks are involved with. > > and while i understand mechanically what is trying to be accomplished to some extent what you folks are doing is what i do for a living and to a great extent i play this game to get away from that shit not to extend it into my home life. No, I and I believe most people are reading it as a slip that he was vanilla, not that he knew he was a sleeper. So, peeker are you opposed to us doing anything to shrink the unknown pool? If not, what do you suggest we do? I am starting to suspect it was your idea to get rid of Tom Scud since you were “worrying” him. ---
**Author:** ![Mahaloth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mahaloth/32/1079_2.png) [@Mahaloth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mahaloth)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2011, 2:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/glasnost-mafia/571757/1151 "2011-03-12T14:42:00Z")
> [@Manwich](#): > > Not voting, not sure if I can contribute over the next few days, due to HUGE FUCKING EARTHQUAKE here in northern Japan. But we have electricity back for now, so I will see what I can do. Do you need to be subbed out? I think this might serve as a reasonable excuse for subbing out. ---
**Author:** ![Suburban\_Plankton](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/suburban_plankton/32/219_2.png) [@Suburban\_Plankton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Suburban_Plankton)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2011, 4:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/glasnost-mafia/571757/1152 "2011-03-12T16:06:22Z")
Finally getting a chance to post, but I haven’t read any of the Day yet; going to try to catch up now. ---
**Author:** ![peekercpa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/8baadc/32.png) [@peekercpa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/peekercpa)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2011, 4:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/glasnost-mafia/571757/1153 "2011-03-12T16:32:12Z")
> [@MentalGuy](#): > > No, I and I believe most people are reading it as a slip that he was vanilla, not that he knew he was a sleeper. > > So, peeker are you opposed to us doing anything to shrink the unknown pool? If not, what do you suggest we do? > > I am starting to suspect it was your idea to get rid of Tom Scud since you were “worrying” him. otie dotie. i just thought i saw some vote(s) for him based on his “slip”. now could or would scum use his potential vanillaness to target him. certainly. but the odds still don’t favor them. i mean for all i know he could be a town power role that is merely playing with scum. kind of like our jailer apparantly did. so in the absence of any additional evidence a vote on him merely because of his “slip” seems to be betting on an inside straight draw. i absolutely think that shrinking the unknown pool is a good thing. preferably by killing scum. and i am not averse to using mechanics or game setup to accomplish this (wink wink nod nod **sach** ). i was merely trying to intimate that, for me personally, D2 seems a tad early and to some extent takes away a bit of the “fun” factor. and while i certainly can not begrudge others for the way they approach this endeavor it doesn’t make the mechanical aspect any less so for me. and yes i was “worried” about **tom**. i mean he commented on the way i was playing this game and that it was concerning him. i certainly didn’t want to disappoint my public. ---
**Author:** ![Suburban\_Plankton](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/suburban_plankton/32/219_2.png) [@Suburban\_Plankton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Suburban_Plankton)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2011, 5:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/glasnost-mafia/571757/1154 "2011-03-12T17:23:11Z")
It was a joke, I say, a joke son! It was not intended as a ‘claim’. I have been known to make jokes around here in the past (and I have been known to get lynched because of said jokes…but that only proves that I’m a slow learner). If you want to vote for me because you think I was Scum all along, that’s one thing. Make your case, and I’ll be more than happy to tear it apart for you. If you are voting because you think I was a sleeper who was awakened, then I’m afraid I can’t put up much of a defense there…but I can point out that the Scum would probably have figured out just like everyone else that I was the ‘most likely candidate’. So would they then want to recruit someone that would fall under immediate suspicion as soon as it became clear that recruitment had taken place? Or would they rather recruit ‘someone else’, and then let the Town lynch me for being ‘the player most likely to become Scum’? And as to the question of “do we have a Doctor?”: with nobody claiming to have received an “Arise, Chicken” message for 2 Days now, I can’t imagine a scenario where the Sleeper and the Doc haven’t been awakened. I find anyone who is not at least 96.838% certain of this to be very suspicious. All of the discussion yesterday about the relative merits of one claim vs another claim, the percentage of success of the various plans, etc. is a fine exercise, but it seems to be that it did detract from the primary business at hand, which is to find and eliminate the bad guys. I know, the idea is that any of the plans discussed will eventually do just that, but frankly I’d rather be an active participant in the game, rather than just a number waiting for my turn to ‘take one for the team’. My gut feeling is that there’s Scum somewhere among the players that keep going back and forth with their competing plans, the idea being to keep the Town talking long enough to render any such plan invalid. But with events in real life having prevented me from following anywhere near as closely as I would like, I don’t have a ‘best guess’ as to who that might be; it’s more a ‘theory based on general gameplay ideas’ than ‘suspicions based on play in this game’. I’m going to go back over the discussions from the last couple Days in hopes that something will become clear (or at least clearer). **Manwich** , I hope everything is OK for you and yours, and we’ll certainly understand if Mafia isn’t your top priority for a while. ---
**Author:** ![Zeriel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/58956e/32.png) [@Zeriel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zeriel)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2011, 7:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/glasnost-mafia/571757/1155 "2011-03-12T19:38:50Z")
Note also, that “most likely candidate” or not, Plankton has by definition only a 25% chance of being recruitable regardless of his slip. ---
**Author:** ![One\_And\_Only\_Wanderers](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/838e76/32.png) [@One\_And\_Only\_Wanderers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/One_And_Only_Wanderers)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2011, 7:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/glasnost-mafia/571757/1156 "2011-03-12T19:59:11Z")
> [@MentalGuy](#): > > Yes, it was an apparent vanilla claim. But I also realize that I made a mistake when I wrote that post. I made it sound like the scum were certain to gain a teammate if they targeted him for awakening and he was not jailed while obviously that is not the case. I still believe he was the most likely target, though, and the fact no one claimed to receive an “arise” message on Day 3 (along with other behavior Cookies listed) makes me think a recruitment took place. I know. Mental - if you weren’t virtually confirmed as teh cop, I woudl be voting you over this. I wanted to make sure that I was thinking the correct facts and that you didn’t accidentally take people down the garden path. Also Wembley! Wembley! We’re going to Wembley! ---
**Author:** ![One\_And\_Only\_Wanderers](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/838e76/32.png) [@One\_And\_Only\_Wanderers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/One_And_Only_Wanderers)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2011, 8:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/glasnost-mafia/571757/1157 "2011-03-12T20:02:55Z")
> [@MentalGuy](#): > > Yes, it was an apparent vanilla claim. But I also realize that I made a mistake when I wrote that post. I made it sound like the scum were certain to gain a teammate if they targeted him for awakening and he was not jailed while obviously that is not the case. I still believe he was the most likely target, though, and the fact no one claimed to receive an “arise” message on Day 3 (along with other behavior Cookies listed) makes me think a recruitment took place. Two more points 1. I think the case on Suburban as stated is spurious. I accept that the onus is on everyone else to make a better case. I will attempt that tomorrow 2. Manwich - I did not know you were in Japan. I sincerely hope that you and yours are doing OK and that the country as a whole responds well to this disaster. My thoughts are with you. ---
**Author:** ![Zeriel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/58956e/32.png) [@Zeriel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zeriel)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2011, 8:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/glasnost-mafia/571757/1158 "2011-03-12T20:08:04Z")
I should say, assuming he’s even vanilla, which I don’t think he claimed either. ---
**Author:** ![special\_ed](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5ac83/32.png) [@special\_ed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/special_ed)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2011, 9:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/glasnost-mafia/571757/1159 "2011-03-12T21:27:45Z")
> [@Zeriel](#): > > PS anyone who didn’t read his “sleeper” statement as a joke is pinging me. It so obviously wasn’t a claim of anything that I’m skeptical anyone’s trying to hang it on him. posting as I catch up? so it was a joke and a slip? As opposed to something more diabolical. I think I alluded to my suspicion of this earlier as well as cookies and now Mental Guy ---
**Author:** ![special\_ed](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5ac83/32.png) [@special\_ed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/special_ed)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2011, 9:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/glasnost-mafia/571757/1160 "2011-03-12T21:33:58Z")
> [@ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies](#): > > I thought the vote order/moves were explicitly stated in the Day-ending vote summaries. I was interpreting them as such. As of the post before Suburban’s the vote count appears to have been: Pleo 5 Mental Guy 5 Astral 4 Mahaloth 4 His vote made it (and unvote of mahaloth) Pleo 6 Mental Guy 5 Astral 4 Mahaloth 3 Suburban did also cast a suspicious eye toward Mental Guy. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/glasnost-mafia/571757.md?page=57) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/glasnost-mafia/571757.md?page=59)