# Glasnost Mafia **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [February 17, 2011, 11:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/glasnost-mafia/571757 "2011-02-17T23:58:11Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![GuiriEnEspana](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/bc79bd/32.png) [@GuiriEnEspana](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GuiriEnEspana)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2011, 10:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/glasnost-mafia/571757/101 "2011-02-21T22:11:09Z")
> [@Drain\_Bead](#): > > So I’d imagine if an attempt is successful, we’ll hear about it from the new Town sleeper that morning. If the scum manage to wake up a sleeper, the other sleeper becomes the Town doc. It looks like they may be able to self-protect but I doubt they’d be rushing to declare their conversion. ---
**Author:** ![GuiriEnEspana](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/bc79bd/32.png) [@GuiriEnEspana](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GuiriEnEspana)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2011, 10:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/glasnost-mafia/571757/102 "2011-02-21T22:30:30Z")
A possibly intentional side-effect of the sleeper role is that we shouldn’t have any unforced VT claims or, at least, it would now be anti-town to do so. An honest VT claim would increase the scum’s chances of waking a sleeper. ---
**Author:** ![Gadarene](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47c2d/32.png) [@Gadarene](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gadarene)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2011, 11:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/glasnost-mafia/571757/103 "2011-02-21T23:21:39Z")
> [@GuiriEnEspana](#): > > An honest VT claim would increase the scum’s chances of waking a sleeper. Why? I thought that sleepers don’t know they’re sleepers until they’re awakened. Wouldn’t they, for all intents and purposes, believe themselves to be honest vanilla townsfolk until that point? This also means that someone who claims to have received a recruitment message during the night is either (a) lying or (b) essentially a confirmed townsperson, unless I’m missing something. Seems like valuable information for town to have. ---
**Author:** ![Gadarene](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47c2d/32.png) [@Gadarene](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gadarene)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2011, 11:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/glasnost-mafia/571757/104 "2011-02-21T23:22:41Z")
NETA: Whoops, I am missing something. I guess they could be the mad bomber as well. ---
**Author:** ![Mahaloth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mahaloth/32/1079_2.png) [@Mahaloth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mahaloth)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2011, 11:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/glasnost-mafia/571757/105 "2011-02-21T23:33:03Z")
**Can the Town Jailer jail himself/herself?** ---
**Author:** ![Drain\_Bead](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e47774/32.png) [@Drain\_Bead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Drain_Bead)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2011, 12:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/glasnost-mafia/571757/106 "2011-02-22T00:03:51Z")
I missed the Doc thing. That changes my idea somewhat. I agree that in this game, unprovoked claims are all sorts of bad. Can we all agree to no claims unless we’re on the block? ---
**Author:** ![Tom\_Scud](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/f08c70/32.png) [@Tom\_Scud](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tom_Scud)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2011, 12:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/glasnost-mafia/571757/107 "2011-02-22T00:13:47Z")
> [@Mahaloth](#): > > **Can the Town Jailer jail himself/herself?** You have to pm your questions to Red. ---
**Author:** ![Tom\_Scud](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/f08c70/32.png) [@Tom\_Scud](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tom_Scud)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2011, 12:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/glasnost-mafia/571757/108 "2011-02-22T00:17:16Z")
> [@Tom\_Scud](#): > > One possible way the jailer could play it would be to openly claim and then jail him/herself every round; as far as I can see they will be a totally unkillable (both by scum and mad bomber) confirmed Town at the cost of not being able to use their ability on others (well they could if they were willing to risk the scum/bomber taking a shot at them on that particular day but anyway). Thinking about it a bit more, this seems like a bad idea on Day 1; later, perhaps. Note that the town Vigilante can test the claim of a self-jailing jailer. ---
**Author:** ![Tom\_Scud](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/f08c70/32.png) [@Tom\_Scud](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tom_Scud)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2011, 12:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/glasnost-mafia/571757/109 "2011-02-22T00:21:58Z")
> [@Drain\_Bead](#): > > I agree that in this game, unprovoked claims are all sorts of bad. Can we all agree to no claims unless we’re on the block? The serial killer role certainly throws some doubt into the traditional rule of thumb for a detective claim (which is what 3 (living) town or 1 scum?); once the detective is out in the open, (s)he’s almost certainly dead in 2 nights (one night for the bomber to tag him/her, one night for the bomber to set off his/her bombs), unless the jailer keeps him/her locked up which kind of defeats the purpose. ---
**Author:** ![Red\_Skeezix](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/aca169/32.png) [@Red\_Skeezix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Red_Skeezix)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2011, 1:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/glasnost-mafia/571757/110 "2011-02-22T01:49:21Z")
**Since the town jailer prevents their target from performing any actions, the town jailer would of course prevent him or herself from protecting him or herself from being the target of any other actions.** ---
**Author:** ![Drain\_Bead](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e47774/32.png) [@Drain\_Bead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Drain_Bead)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2011, 2:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/glasnost-mafia/571757/111 "2011-02-22T02:11:36Z")
That sentence was like the literary version of looking into a full-length mirror with another one behind you. ---
**Author:** ![Mahaloth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mahaloth/32/1079_2.png) [@Mahaloth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mahaloth)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2011, 2:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/glasnost-mafia/571757/112 "2011-02-22T02:20:11Z")
Basically, if they jail themselves, they…cancel all their powers and essentially do nothing. I think that’s right, anyway. ---
**Author:** ![Tom\_Scud](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/f08c70/32.png) [@Tom\_Scud](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tom_Scud)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2011, 2:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/glasnost-mafia/571757/113 "2011-02-22T02:21:06Z")
Basically, no invulnerable self-jailing jailer. Too bad. ---
**Author:** ![Tom\_Scud](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/f08c70/32.png) [@Tom\_Scud](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tom_Scud)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2011, 2:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/glasnost-mafia/571757/114 "2011-02-22T02:30:22Z")
> [@Gadarene](#): > > This also means that someone who claims to have received a recruitment message during the night is either (a) lying or (b) essentially a confirmed townsperson, unless I’m missing something. Seems like valuable information for town to have. > [@Gadarene](#): > > NETA: Whoops, I am missing something. I guess they could be the mad bomber as well. However, scum could either (a) choose not to send a message and lie about having received one or (b) lie about having received a message if their recruitment target is vig’d or jailed. So, you know, there might or might not be poison in the wine in front of me. ---
**Author:** ![Gadarene](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47c2d/32.png) [@Gadarene](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gadarene)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2011, 2:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/glasnost-mafia/571757/115 "2011-02-22T02:35:45Z")
> [@Tom\_Scud](#): > > However, scum could either (a) choose not to send a message and lie about having received one or (b) lie about having received a message if their recruitment target is vig’d or jailed. So, you know, there might or might not be poison in the wine in front of me. Right, but if someone claims to have received one, we _know_ that they’re either lying or not scum. It’s not dispositive by any means given the WIFOM you identify, but it’s still a helpful data point. ---
**Author:** ![Drain\_Bead](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e47774/32.png) [@Drain\_Bead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Drain_Bead)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2011, 2:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/glasnost-mafia/571757/116 "2011-02-22T02:45:52Z")
Right now, we know that pretty much everyone in the game is either lying or not scum. I still think that people should claim an attempted recruitment attempt, mind you. ---
**Author:** ![MentalGuy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/439d5e/32.png) [@MentalGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MentalGuy)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2011, 3:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/glasnost-mafia/571757/117 "2011-02-22T03:39:56Z")
> [@Gadarene](#): > > Why? I thought that sleepers don’t know they’re sleepers until they’re awakened. Wouldn’t they, for all intents and purposes, believe themselves to be honest vanilla townsfolk until that point? They would believe themselves to be honest vanilla townsfolk, but if they reveal that info, then scum would know that they are in the pool of players to try to awaken. > [@Drain\_Bead](#): > > I missed the Doc thing. That changes my idea somewhat. > > I agree that in this game, unprovoked claims are all sorts of bad. Can we all agree to no claims unless we’re on the block? I agree with this early in the game. As players gather information later in the game, it might be worth it in some cases to reveal themselves in order to provide that info to the town. > [@Tom\_Scud](#): > > The serial killer role certainly throws some doubt into the traditional rule of thumb for a detective claim (which is what 3 (living) town or 1 scum?); once the detective is out in the open, (s)he’s almost certainly dead in 2 nights (one night for the bomber to tag him/her, one night for the bomber to set off his/her bombs), unless the jailer keeps him/her locked up which kind of defeats the purpose. I think the detective usually has a pretty short shelf-life of usefulness once they claim anyway. And they would want to claim what they know before they get night-killed. So I think the rule of thumb you state is a pretty good starting point, even in this game, but they should take the overall state of the game into account. > [@Drain\_Bead](#): > > Right now, we know that pretty much everyone in the game is either lying or not scum. > > I still think that people should claim an attempted recruitment attempt, mind you. I agree that players should claim if they have been targeted for awakening. ---
**Author:** ![Manwich](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e480ec/32.png) [@Manwich](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Manwich)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2011, 7:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/glasnost-mafia/571757/118 "2011-02-22T07:18:21Z")
So it seems like the consensus is that you should claim if you are targeted for recruitment but otherwise keep quiet about any special roles for now. Does anyone disagree with that? It make sense to me - as others have mentioned recruitment claims might give information useful to the town later on, whether or not they are true. It seems dangerous and useless for scum to falsely claim a recruitment attempt anyway - wouldn’t it just be an easy way for a scum player to get caught lying? ---
**Author:** ![One\_And\_Only\_Wanderers](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/838e76/32.png) [@One\_And\_Only\_Wanderers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/One_And_Only_Wanderers)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2011, 7:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/glasnost-mafia/571757/119 "2011-02-22T07:36:26Z")
I generally dislike if this then that planning at this stage. If the scum hit a sleeper, then the newly awakened townie should _use their judgment and claim/not claim based on the situation at the time!_ ---
**Author:** ![ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e9bcb4/32.png) [@ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2011, 7:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/glasnost-mafia/571757/120 "2011-02-22T07:42:13Z")
Sure. I can’t currently think of a situation wherein I would not come forward myself, but to each their own. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/glasnost-mafia/571757.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/glasnost-mafia/571757.md?page=7)