# Glee: 2.18 "Born This Way" (open spoilers) **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [April 26, 2011, 11:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/glee-2-18-born-this-way-open-spoilers/579835 "2011-04-26T23:23:44Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Sampiro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/2acd7d/32.png) [@Sampiro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sampiro)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2011, 6:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/glee-2-18-born-this-way-open-spoilers/579835/21 "2011-04-27T18:25:41Z")
I’ve watched about half of this one so far. Is it completely Sue-less? > [@](#): > > Santana: I caught you checking out Sam’s ass. > > Karofsky: I… I was trying to see what brand of jeans he was wearing. > > Santana: Even if that were true it’s no less gay. Speaking of Sam’s ass, Chord [dropped trou to show his briefs](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2HfPoyKHTt8) on the Ellen Degeneres show (app. 2:00). ---
**Author:** ![Uncle\_Jocko](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/uncle_jocko/32/2932_2.png) [@Uncle\_Jocko](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Uncle_Jocko)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2011, 8:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/glee-2-18-born-this-way-open-spoilers/579835/22 "2011-04-27T20:07:44Z")
“I’m both repulsed and impressed by her Lady Macbethian actions. A Latina Eve Harrington.” _(Blank look from Karofsky)_ “Look, if you’re going to be gay, you’re going to have to get these references.” ---
**Author:** ![Minnie\_Luna](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4bbf92/32.png) [@Minnie\_Luna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Minnie_Luna)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2011, 8:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/glee-2-18-born-this-way-open-spoilers/579835/23 "2011-04-27T20:27:49Z")
> [@Kylede](#): > > As a gay man who is a fan of GLEE and knows plenty of other guys like me who are, I was disappointed that more wasn’t done about the “Lebanese” joke!!! Any good gay man knows that joke is from an old “Golden Girls” episode… Now wouldn’t it have been even funnier and a sly wink to anyone who knows that fact if Brittany said to Santana, “Well thats how my friend Blanche told me how to spell it”… Interesting. The first time I heard the lebanese joke was from Ellen DeGeneres when she did her coming out episode on her sitcom in 1996. She went on Rosie O’Donnell and when Rosie asks her about what’s coming up on her show, Ellen says that it is revealed that she is lebanese. Interesting thing also here is that Rosie essentially comes out as well, saying that she must be lebanese also. I always wondered why no one bothered at that time to call Rosie on it (NTTAWWT), but once her show was canceled, it was all she talked about for a period of time. [Rosie O’Donnell Clip](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tk9K25iE0To) ---
**Author:** ![That\_Don\_Guy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/that_don_guy/32/538_2.png) [@That\_Don\_Guy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/That_Don_Guy)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2011, 8:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/glee-2-18-born-this-way-open-spoilers/579835/24 "2011-04-27T20:41:09Z")
Did anybody else notice (I think it was after the final song), when then panned out of the room, there was a red flyer on the wall with blurred letters? I tried to freeze-frame it, but even in HD, it was almost impossible to make out, but I’m fairly certain the phrase “High School Musical” was in there. ---
**Author:** ![Sampiro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/2acd7d/32.png) [@Sampiro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sampiro)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2011, 9:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/glee-2-18-born-this-way-open-spoilers/579835/25 "2011-04-27T21:06:37Z")
So, what would your shirt say? Let’s disallow “too heavy” shirts since that’s near universal (at least in America) and do something more challenging. Since I got over any “likes boys” embarrassment decades ago I’d probably go with **LAZY AS A $2 DOG** ---
**Author:** ![gonzoron](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a6a055/32.png) [@gonzoron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzoron)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2011, 9:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/glee-2-18-born-this-way-open-spoilers/579835/26 "2011-04-27T21:14:33Z")
Not much to say other than I liked this episode much better than last weeks despite the mostly awful music. I was baffled by the been-there-done that mall scene, and Kurt’s song seemed to go one forever. Agree that Quinn’s backstory was out of nowhere, (and how did Lauren make a poster with “Lucy Caboosey” on it before she knew the name?) though it was kinda fun to see a Lauren story that didn’t suck so much. Born this way and Unpretty were the musical highlights. Lebanese and I’m with stoopid were the laugh highlights. Getting Kurt back without Karofsky coming out was some fancy writing footwork, and Santana seems to be getting hotter in every episode. she may explode before the end of the season. ---
**Author:** ![Sampiro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/2acd7d/32.png) [@Sampiro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sampiro)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2011, 9:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/glee-2-18-born-this-way-open-spoilers/579835/27 "2011-04-27T21:17:14Z")
> [@gonzoron](#): > > Kurt’s song seemed to go one forever. Major problem with that (imo otherwise beautiful) song. It’s one of several ALW songs that inspired [The Song That Goes Like This](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F-fG8c-CMoU). ---
**Author:** ![Andy\_L](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c67d28/32.png) [@Andy\_L](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Andy_L)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2011, 9:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/glee-2-18-born-this-way-open-spoilers/579835/28 "2011-04-27T21:20:25Z")
I figured out who played the shrink (she was Mrs. Lovell in Apollo 13), but who was the fellow that played the plastic surgeon - he looked familiar. ---
**Author:** ![drastic\_quench](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e36b37/32.png) [@drastic\_quench](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drastic_quench)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2011, 9:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/glee-2-18-born-this-way-open-spoilers/579835/29 "2011-04-27T21:29:22Z")
> [@gonzoron](#): > > (and how did Lauren make a poster with “Lucy Caboosey” on it before she knew the name?) She was just playing dumb/along when she guessed “Juicy Lucy”. It amped up the reveal. ---
**Author:** ![Sampiro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/2acd7d/32.png) [@Sampiro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sampiro)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2011, 10:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/glee-2-18-born-this-way-open-spoilers/579835/30 "2011-04-27T22:29:15Z")
> [@Andy\_L](#): > > I figured out who played the shrink (she was Mrs. Lovell in Apollo 13), but who was the fellow that played the plastic surgeon - he looked familiar. [George Wyner](http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0943927/)- one of the big “That’s what’s his name” actors. Any idea what the sound was when Quinn found the Lucy Caboosey poster? It sounded like a blend of fire alarms and crazed old women keening and I was wondering if it was an excerpt from a song or a soundtrack. ---
**Author:** ![notfrommensa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/f14d63/32.png) [@notfrommensa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/notfrommensa)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2011, 10:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/glee-2-18-born-this-way-open-spoilers/579835/31 "2011-04-27T22:46:28Z")
The “Lebanese” joke goes at least back to the 80’s with “The Golden Girls” Dorothy has a college friend who is attracted to Rose, tells Blanche that “Pat” is a lesbian and Blanche says (paraphrasing) “Thats OK, Isn’t Danny Thomas Lebanese?” I clicked “hated it”. I thought there was extraordinary amount of commercials. No Sue Sylvester. No Coach Beiste, and (not their fault) the audio was out for half the episode because of ongoing Tornado warnings etc. ---
**Author:** ![Andy\_L](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c67d28/32.png) [@Andy\_L](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Andy_L)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2011, 10:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/glee-2-18-born-this-way-open-spoilers/579835/32 "2011-04-27T22:49:51Z")
> [@Sampiro](#): > > [George Wyner](http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0943927/)- one of the big “That’s what’s his name” actors. Thanks! ---
**Author:** ![TBG](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c89c15/32.png) [@TBG](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TBG)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2011, 11:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/glee-2-18-born-this-way-open-spoilers/579835/33 "2011-04-27T23:30:51Z")
> [@Sampiro](#): > > I’ve watched about half of this one so far. Is it completely Sue-less? Yep. 90mins, and they couldn’t fit ANY Sue in. :rolleyes: > [@Sampiro](#): > > So, what would your shirt say? **WATCHES GLEE** :p:D;) ---
**Author:** ![bouv](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/bc8723/32.png) [@bouv](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bouv)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2011, 11:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/glee-2-18-born-this-way-open-spoilers/579835/34 "2011-04-27T23:37:21Z")
> [@notfrommensa](#): > > I thought there was extraordinary amount of commercials. GOD yes! It came back from a commercial right after Kurt came back, he did is song, and BAM, another commercial. Less than four minutes of show. Look, Fox, you’re making money hand over fist off of iTunes and DVD sales, so can you at least cut the crap with so many commercials? ---
**Author:** ![Sampiro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/2acd7d/32.png) [@Sampiro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sampiro)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2011, 11:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/glee-2-18-born-this-way-open-spoilers/579835/35 "2011-04-27T23:40:41Z")
[QUOTE=TBG] **WATCHES GLEE** :p:D;) [/QUOTE] That would be a great marketing tie-in. Really cheap and easy to make as well. ---
**Author:** ![jackdavinci](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackdavinci/32/3259_2.png) [@jackdavinci](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jackdavinci)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2011, 11:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/glee-2-18-born-this-way-open-spoilers/579835/36 "2011-04-27T23:45:21Z")
> [@notfrommensa](#): > > I thought there was extraordinary amount of commercials. This seems to be a common complaint about certain shows. But I was under the impression that broadcast shows were regulated/standardized with regards to program length / commercial time. Do broadcast shows really have widely varying amount of commercial time? Or is this just an illusion by having say, more breaks but less commercials per break? ---
**Author:** ![Lamia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/8e7dd6/32.png) [@Lamia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lamia)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2011, 11:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/glee-2-18-born-this-way-open-spoilers/579835/37 "2011-04-27T23:57:30Z")
> [@Sir\_Prize](#): > > I was disappointed that came up with brand new past for Quinn to excuse her behavior. I got the impression that the writers just couldn’t figure out how to write a character that grew up physically beautiful. Also, it doesn’t seem to match what we have known about her until now Yeah, it seems like the writers periodically make something up that is very important for one episode but has nothing to do with previous episodes and will probably never be mentioned again. This felt like one of those times. > [@Sampiro](#): > > I wonder if his voice will ever deepen. Actually can’t think why it would; he’s grown 3 inches in height since the first episode (late teen growth spurt) but the voice has stayed the same. I was looking at some old _Glee_ clips on YouTube recently and was amazed by how much taller/older Chris Colfer looks now. I’d forgotten how young he looked early in season one. Anyway, he can apparently sing lower than he normally does on the show – check out this [interview](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u3G9ifpK578), where he talks about singing the “tear the roof off” bit in “[Give Up the Funk](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KW0FTYpao2Q)” – so I would guess that his voice already changed as much as it’s going to change. > [@bouv](#): > > Huh? Ok, I know weaves are like hair extensions, and are more popular with black women (I think?), but I didn’t think that not having one would be a source of embarrassment as her shirt would seem to indicate. I didn’t get that either. It would have made more sense to have her embarrassed to admit that she _does_ have a weave, although even that would be odd since IIRC there was a line in “Hell to the No” about her weave. The business about Tina’s eye color was also pretty stupid, although it was nice to have an episode where Tina had actual lines. > [@randwill](#): > > But that “Barbra Streisand” thing (just a rhythm track and somebody saying ‘Barbra Streisand’, really? that’s a song?) was a real waste of the money spent to rent that mall and pay those extras. My reaction to this song was also basically “WTF?” but [Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barbra_Streisand_%28song%29) tells me this song hit #1 on the US Dance Club chart, a Top Ten single in a number of foreign countries. So it may be that many viewers had/will have (when the episode airs overseas) a more positive “Hey, it’s that ‘Barbra Streisand’ song!” reaction. I think another weak point was that “Born This Way” has, IMHO, terrible lyrics. Given the message of the song, and the fact that it’s by Lady Gaga and a recent hit single, it was probably inevitable that it would be featured on _Glee_, but I felt like the characters could have come up with better lyrics themselves in study hall. Despite my complaints I think this was a good episode and I give the show a LOT of credit for not giving Karofsky easy redemption…or Santana for that matter. I’d heard rumors that Karofsky would be joining the glee club for the “Born This Way” number, but I think it worked a lot better to have both of them in the audience. I expect there will be hugs all around by the end of the season, but for now both characters have shown some growth while still being basically terrible people. ---
**Author:** ![Sampiro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/2acd7d/32.png) [@Sampiro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sampiro)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2011, 12:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/glee-2-18-born-this-way-open-spoilers/579835/38 "2011-04-28T00:31:24Z")
[QUOTE=Lamia] I was looking at some old _Glee_ clips on YouTube recently and was amazed by how much taller/older Chris Colfer looks now. I’d forgotten how young he looked early in season one. Anyway, he can apparently sing lower than he normally does on the show – check out this [interview](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u3G9ifpK578), where he talks about singing the “tear the roof off” bit in “[Give Up the Funk](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KW0FTYpao2Q)” – so I would guess that his voice already changed as much as it’s going to change. [/QUOTE] He was ‘legal’ in his first episodes but I didn’t find him remotely attractive- he looked way too much like a 13 year old. Now there are times he’s actually kind of sexy- but not always. Depends on the lighting and angle I guess. Of course when he is he’s “pretty” rather than classically handsome (or, as Sue would say, “my sweet Porcelain…”). Gave this episode a like because I liked some of the music but the plot was ‘eh’. On the one hand I’m glad they’re showing Emma as far more than just quirky but otoh “Crazy Emma” is time consuming for a character I don’t really care about. And I’m glad the Warblers should be gone- even in the Glee-verse it’s hard to believe that any Glee club would be willing to drink the lead- the only- soloists KoolAid like they do (not just in the way they always back him vocally without complaint but the “Hey, let’s go sexually harass a college guy at GAP for Blaine even though we’ve never left the school grounds before!” way- that’s an ATF siege and mass suicide waiting to happen. Plus the episode would have benefitted from Sue and from shirtless Sam, Puck, and or Mike. ---
**Author:** ![drastic\_quench](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e36b37/32.png) [@drastic\_quench](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drastic_quench)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2011, 12:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/glee-2-18-born-this-way-open-spoilers/579835/39 "2011-04-28T00:54:46Z")
90 minutes and loads of commercials? I don’t miss my TV. I watched it on Hulu, with just seven 30 or 60 second commercial breaks. Runtime was 57 minutes without counting those commercials. ---
**Author:** ![Lamia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/8e7dd6/32.png) [@Lamia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lamia)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2011, 1:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/glee-2-18-born-this-way-open-spoilers/579835/40 "2011-04-28T01:13:08Z")
> [@Sampiro](#): > > He was ‘legal’ in his first episodes but I didn’t find him remotely attractive- he looked way too much like a 13 year old. Now there are times he’s actually kind of sexy- but not always. Depends on the lighting and angle I guess. Of course when he is he’s “pretty” rather than classically handsome (or, as Sue would say, “my sweet Porcelain…”). One of my coworkers has a 13 year old son, and I’d agree that early season one Kurt looked about that age. If he still looked the same this year then I think they would have needed to cast someone else as Blaine. Darren Criss is at 24 actually one of the younger “boys” on _Glee_, but even now he’s obviously older than Chris Colfer and a year ago the relationship between their characters would have looked like something that was about to be broken up by Chris Hanson. > [@](#): > > And I’m glad the Warblers should be gone- even in the Glee-verse it’s hard to believe that any Glee club would be willing to drink the lead- the only- soloists KoolAid like they do (not just in the way they always back him vocally without complaint but the “Hey, let’s go sexually harass a college guy at GAP for Blaine even though we’ve never left the school grounds before!” way- that’s an ATF siege and mass suicide waiting to happen. I’ve enjoyed the Warblers in the sense that their numbers have been consistently good, but you’re right that the whole thing with them has been very weird. Their depiction hasn’t even been internally consistent, as Kurt was told early on that the Warblers value uniformity and that Kurt would need to learn not to stand out so much. Dalton was also seeming more and more like a sort of _Lovely Bones_ fantasy version of high school, or a dream Kurt had when he fell asleep watching _Dead Poet’s Society_, with singing and dancing all the time and not only no faculty and no classes but no students with discernible personalities or significant dialogue aside from Kurt and Blaine. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/glee-2-18-born-this-way-open-spoilers/579835.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/glee-2-18-born-this-way-open-spoilers/579835.md?page=3)