# Glenn Becks targets Frances Fox Piven (of "Cloward-Piven"); "targets" fitting word **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [January 21, 2011, 7:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/glenn-becks-targets-frances-fox-piven-of-cloward-piven-targets-fitting-word/568430 "2011-01-21T07:55:09Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2011, 10:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/glenn-becks-targets-frances-fox-piven-of-cloward-piven-targets-fitting-word/568430/61 "2011-01-23T22:19:31Z")
Really? Can you give me an example of something that ‘looks like’ a riot but isn’t violent? Note that she didn’t leave ‘riots’ out of her call to action. If she really wasn’t advocating violence she should have said something along the lines of, “I don’t condone the violence of the activities in Greece, but America’s unemployed need to employ the same amount of urgency and activity, without resorting to actual violence.” Or, she could have simply left out ‘riots’ and said “America needs something like the labor strikes in Europe.” But she didn’t, did she? And since she has a history of calls to violence, why are you so willing to give her the benefit of the doubt, while immediately pouncing on Beck’s response, which doesn’t actually suggest violence at all? And besides, I thought the new rule was that you can’t say anything that even suggests violence. After all, saying that you’re ‘targeting’ a congressional district is a lot farther removed from actual violence than saying that America needs ‘something like’ actual violent, deadly riots and strikes that are currently going on elsewhere in the world. ---
**Author:** ![Robot\_Arm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robot_arm/32/18280_2.png) [@Robot\_Arm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robot_Arm)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2011, 10:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/glenn-becks-targets-frances-fox-piven-of-cloward-piven-targets-fitting-word/568430/62 "2011-01-23T22:50:49Z")
> [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > But she didn’t, did she? No, and neither did she say “death to the capitalist oppressors,” so don’t pretend that she did. > [@](#): > > And since she has a history of calls to violence, why are you so willing to give her the benefit of the doubt, while immediately pouncing on Beck’s response,… I pounced on Beck’s response? Where? ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2011, 5:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/glenn-becks-targets-frances-fox-piven-of-cloward-piven-targets-fitting-word/568430/63 "2011-01-24T05:45:17Z")
> [@Robot\_Arm](#): > > No, and neither did she say “death to the capitalist oppressors,” so don’t pretend that she did. Jesus. Try not to put words in my mouth, okay? So tell me - if Glenn Beck pointed to violent anti-government riots in some country and said, “We need something like that here”, you’d give him the same benefit of the doubt? You’d assume that he wasn’t advocating violence because he only said ‘something like’ riots? What a joke. > [@](#): > > I pounced on Beck’s response? Where? I wasn’t aiming that at you specifically. I was talking about the general response. ---
**Author:** ![Robot\_Arm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robot_arm/32/18280_2.png) [@Robot\_Arm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robot_Arm)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2011, 6:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/glenn-becks-targets-frances-fox-piven-of-cloward-piven-targets-fitting-word/568430/64 "2011-01-24T06:12:35Z")
> [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > …why are you so willing to give her the benefit of the doubt, while immediately pouncing on Beck’s response,… > [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > …You’d assume that he wasn’t advocating violence because he only said ‘something like’ riots? What a joke. > [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > Jesus. Try not to put words in my mouth, okay? You’re joking, right? You tell me that I pounced on Beck’s response, which I didn’t. You tell me what my response would be if Beck said something else, which he hasn’t. And then you ask me not to put words in your mouth. I mean, you’ve just got to be kidding. Ooh, try this; I wasn’t aiming that at you specifically. ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2011, 9:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/glenn-becks-targets-frances-fox-piven-of-cloward-piven-targets-fitting-word/568430/65 "2011-01-24T09:24:28Z")
Now you’re just dancing because you’ve realized that your position is untenable. ---
**Author:** ![Robot\_Arm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robot_arm/32/18280_2.png) [@Robot\_Arm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robot_Arm)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2011, 9:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/glenn-becks-targets-frances-fox-piven-of-cloward-piven-targets-fitting-word/568430/66 "2011-01-24T09:36:00Z")
Okay, now I know you’re kidding. But getting you method actors to break character is such a chore. > [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > And since she has a history of calls to violence, why are you so willing to give her the benefit of the doubt, while immediately pouncing on Beck’s response,… > [@Robot\_Arm](#): > > I pounced on Beck’s response? Where? > [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > I wasn’t aiming that at you specifically. I was talking about the general response. I think that’s my favorite part. Bravo. ---
**Author:** ![Harborwolf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/c89c15/32.png) [@Harborwolf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Harborwolf)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2011, 12:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/glenn-becks-targets-frances-fox-piven-of-cloward-piven-targets-fitting-word/568430/67 "2011-01-24T12:11:10Z")
> [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > As far as I know, what Beck actually did was to call attention to Piven’s piece in the Nation, which _actually calls for violence_: > > This sudden counter-attack on Beck strikes me as a strategic attempt to call attention away from Piven’s latest call to violence. > > For those not aware, people have actually been killed in the Greece riots. Rioters have actually firebombed police and government buildings. The student riots in England have also been violent. Piven thinks bringing this kind of protest to America would be a good idea. But then, she’s been calling for violent revolution since the 1960’s. > > But it’s Beck who’s the real worry here, for having the audacity to call this out. After all, people who listen to him might have a violent response to… Piven’s direct request for her own side to engage in violence. Is there something for the rest of us to read along with here? I’d like to see this “direct request.” I’d also like for you to explain how even a direct request for violence should be met with death threats if that is in fact the case you are making here. ---
**Author:** ![Normal\_Phase](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Normal\_Phase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Normal_Phase)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2011, 2:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/glenn-becks-targets-frances-fox-piven-of-cloward-piven-targets-fitting-word/568430/68 "2011-01-24T14:19:47Z")
> [@Gyrate](#): > > Sorry. I’ll summarize in words of two syllables or fewer. > > “Glenn Beck spent many many shows claiming that these people are evil left-wing monsters who did many bad things. Many of the readers of Beck’s website have said that those people should be killed. Killed a lot. Killed now. And they use Beck’s words to support this view.” > > Still too many words? How about “Beck say her much bad. Beck friends say 'kill now.”? > > Nice try on the false equivalence thing though. Given that even that blatantly partisan website suggests that the worst thing the protesters did was walk on the guy’s lawn, I’m not seeing a parallel with directly inspiring at least one person to arm themselves to go commit mass murder, and then continuing to use the same rhetoric with regard to other people. I think it’s two. Didn’t the guy who shot up the UU church in Tennessee because he was out to get all the “liberals” have copies of Beck’s (and O’Reilly’s, IIRC) books lying around? ---
**Author:** ![C3](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/c3/32/3108_2.png) [@C3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/C3)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2011, 2:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/glenn-becks-targets-frances-fox-piven-of-cloward-piven-targets-fitting-word/568430/69 "2011-01-24T14:25:36Z")
> [@Normal\_Phase](#): > > I think it’s two. Didn’t the guy who shot up the UU church in Tennessee because he was out to get all the “liberals” have copies of Beck’s (and O’Reilly’s, IIRC) books lying around? He had books by O’Reilly, Hannity, and Mike Savage, but not Glenn Beck. ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2011, 2:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/glenn-becks-targets-frances-fox-piven-of-cloward-piven-targets-fitting-word/568430/70 "2011-01-24T14:27:13Z")
> [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > As far as I know, what Beck actually did was to call attention to Piven’s piece in the Nation, which _actually calls for violence_: > > This sudden counter-attack on Beck strikes me as a strategic attempt to call attention away from Piven’s latest call to violence. > > For those not aware, people have actually been killed in the Greece riots. Rioters have actually firebombed police and government buildings. The student riots in England have also been violent. Piven thinks bringing this kind of protest to America would be a good idea. But then, she’s been calling for violent revolution since the 1960’s. > > But it’s Beck who’s the real worry here, for having the audacity to call this out. After all, people who listen to him might have a violent response to… Piven’s direct request for her own side to engage in violence. In that case, I have no damn use for her either. ---
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2011, 2:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/glenn-becks-targets-frances-fox-piven-of-cloward-piven-targets-fitting-word/568430/71 "2011-01-24T14:40:30Z")
> [@SteveG1](#): > > In that case, I have no damn use for her either. I hadn’t heard of Piven before this thread. Which makes her a pretty poor excuse for a _tu quoque_. ---
**Author:** ![Lightnin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lightnin/32/180_2.png) [@Lightnin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lightnin)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2011, 2:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/glenn-becks-targets-frances-fox-piven-of-cloward-piven-targets-fitting-word/568430/72 "2011-01-24T14:49:09Z")
> [@Ludovic](#): > > I hadn’t heard of Piven before this thread. Which makes her a pretty poor excuse for a _tu quoque_. Yeah, same here. If it wasn’t for the Right bringing her up, I would never have heard of her. ---
**Author:** ![El\_Kabong](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/el_kabong/32/496_2.png) [@El\_Kabong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/El_Kabong)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2011, 3:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/glenn-becks-targets-frances-fox-piven-of-cloward-piven-targets-fitting-word/568430/73 "2011-01-24T15:46:22Z")
[Quote=Sam Stone] This sudden counter-attack on Beck strikes me as a strategic attempt to call attention away from Piven’s latest call to violence. [/Quote] [Quote=Ludovic] I hadn’t heard of Piven before this thread. Which makes her a pretty poor excuse for a _tu quoque_. [/Quote] > [@Lightnin](#): > > Yeah, same here. If it wasn’t for the Right bringing her up, I would never have heard of her. Jeez, here you guys are orchestrating a smear campaign against Good Glenn Beck, and you don’t even know on who’s behalf you’re doing it? I bet next you’ll deny George Soros has anything to do with this, am I right? Gah, what a pathetic bunch of revolutionaries you are. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2011, 3:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/glenn-becks-targets-frances-fox-piven-of-cloward-piven-targets-fitting-word/568430/74 "2011-01-24T15:51:35Z")
Sorry, the dog ate my talking points memo. ---
**Author:** ![Lightnin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lightnin/32/180_2.png) [@Lightnin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lightnin)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2011, 4:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/glenn-becks-targets-frances-fox-piven-of-cloward-piven-targets-fitting-word/568430/75 "2011-01-24T16:04:10Z")
> [@El\_Kabong](#): > > Jeez, here you guys are orchestrating a smear campaign against Good Glenn Beck, and you don’t even know on who’s behalf you’re doing it? I bet next you’ll deny George Soros has anything to do with this, am I right? > > Gah, what a pathetic bunch of revolutionaries you are. Right! You! Up against the wall! [SUB]Uh, guys? What do we do when we’ve got 'em up against the wall? Nobody ever said.[/SUB] ---
**Author:** ![joebuck20](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/74df32/32.png) [@joebuck20](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/joebuck20)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2011, 4:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/glenn-becks-targets-frances-fox-piven-of-cloward-piven-targets-fitting-word/568430/76 "2011-01-24T16:20:49Z")
> [@Lightnin](#): > > Yeah, same here. If it wasn’t for the Right bringing her up, I would never have heard of her. The right does this a lot. They’ll bring up some obscure figure or organization who most liberals have never heard of, let alone had an association with, and try to cast them as leading the left’s charge against America. ACORN is a perfect example of this. Honestly, how many people here had ever heard of them before the right started obsessing over them in 2008 or even before O’Keefe pulled his stunt on them in 2009. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2011, 4:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/glenn-becks-targets-frances-fox-piven-of-cloward-piven-targets-fitting-word/568430/77 "2011-01-24T16:31:45Z")
> [@Lightnin](#): > > Right! You! Up against the wall! > > [SUB]Uh, guys? What do we do when we’ve got 'em up against the wall? Nobody ever said.[/SUB] Dodgeball, obviously. With those red rubber playground balls that really _sting_. That’ll show them! ---
**Author:** ![George\_Kaplin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/3e96dc/32.png) [@George\_Kaplin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/George_Kaplin)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2011, 8:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/glenn-becks-targets-frances-fox-piven-of-cloward-piven-targets-fitting-word/568430/78 "2011-01-24T20:40:27Z")
> [@Sam Stone](#): > > For those not aware, people have actually been killed in the Greece riots. Rioters have actually firebombed police and government buildings. The student riots in England have also been violent. They have indeed. But violence wasn’t the _point_ of the protests. If it _had_ been, we would have seen an awful lot more violence than we actually did. Advocating mass protests is emphatically _not_ the same as advocating mass violence. You can wish for one but not the other. ---
**Author:** ![Capitaine\_Zombie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e95f7d/32.png) [@Capitaine\_Zombie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Capitaine_Zombie)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2011, 8:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/glenn-becks-targets-frances-fox-piven-of-cloward-piven-targets-fitting-word/568430/79 "2011-01-24T20:45:51Z")
More Frances’ bashing: [![](https://img.youtube.com/vi/5_5bmkWhL3o/hqdefault.jpg "Glenn Beck On Racism / Glenn Beck Freak Out") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5_5bmkWhL3o) ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2011, 8:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/glenn-becks-targets-frances-fox-piven-of-cloward-piven-targets-fitting-word/568430/80 "2011-01-24T20:53:39Z")
> [@George\_Kaplin](#): > > They have indeed. But violence wasn’t the _point_ of the protests. If it _had_ been, we would have seen an awful lot more violence than we actually did. Advocating mass protests is emphatically _not_ the same as advocating mass violence. You can wish for one but not the other. She specifically said ‘strikes and riots’. This wasn’t an offhand comment where she might have chosen her words poorly - this was in an article in _The Nation_. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/glenn-becks-targets-frances-fox-piven-of-cloward-piven-targets-fitting-word/568430.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/glenn-becks-targets-frances-fox-piven-of-cloward-piven-targets-fitting-word/568430.md?page=5)