# Glenn Becks targets Frances Fox Piven (of "Cloward-Piven"); "targets" fitting word **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [January 21, 2011, 7:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/glenn-becks-targets-frances-fox-piven-of-cloward-piven-targets-fitting-word/568430 "2011-01-21T07:55:09Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2011, 9:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/glenn-becks-targets-frances-fox-piven-of-cloward-piven-targets-fitting-word/568430/81 "2011-01-24T21:22:23Z")
> [@Lightnin](#): > > Right! You! Up against the wall! > > [SUB]Uh, guys? What do we do when we’ve got 'em up against the wall? Nobody ever said.[/SUB] I think we draw a chalk outline, but I forget why. ---
**Author:** ![Kokopilau](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/5f8ce5/32.png) [@Kokopilau](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kokopilau)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2011, 9:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/glenn-becks-targets-frances-fox-piven-of-cloward-piven-targets-fitting-word/568430/82 "2011-01-24T21:27:57Z")
> [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > She specifically said ‘strikes and riots’. This wasn’t an offhand comment where she might have chosen her words poorly - this was in an article in _The Nation_. Except that Beck and Company aren’t simply complaining that she wants strikes and riots like those in Greece and England (with the goal, she says, of stronger safety nets for the unemployed and job-creating initiatives). They accuse her of [calling for violent revolution that will “overthrow the capitalist system.”](http://www.theblaze.com/stories/frances-fox-piven-rings-in-the-new-year-by-calling-for-violent-revolution/) And as extreme as some of the protests in Greece got, they didn’t come _anywhere close_ to being the 1917-style New Bolshevik Revolution that they’re heavily implying that Piven is working towards. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2011, 9:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/glenn-becks-targets-frances-fox-piven-of-cloward-piven-targets-fitting-word/568430/83 "2011-01-24T21:30:38Z")
> [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > She specifically said ‘strikes and riots’. This wasn’t an offhand comment where she might have chosen her words poorly - this was in an article in _The Nation_. So your claim is that she directed and/or incited readers to commit violent acts in that article? Do you have a cite for that, or is this another time that you make a claim about something that is not supported by facts? I mean, you do have a bad habit of doing just that. ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2011, 10:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/glenn-becks-targets-frances-fox-piven-of-cloward-piven-targets-fitting-word/568430/84 "2011-01-24T22:00:24Z")
Here’s her article in [The Nation](http://www.thenation.com/article/157292/mobilizing-jobless). Read it yourself. I won’t expect a retraction of your suggestion that I’m lying. I know you better than that. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2011, 10:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/glenn-becks-targets-frances-fox-piven-of-cloward-piven-targets-fitting-word/568430/85 "2011-01-24T22:45:09Z")
> [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > Here’s her article in [The Nation](http://www.thenation.com/article/157292/mobilizing-jobless). Read it yourself. I won’t expect a retraction of your suggestion that I’m lying. I know you better than that. No, you really don’t know me at all. Caught you in another baseless assertion not supported by facts right there. But my real point stands: you made a claim about what was said in the article, and when challenged you resorted to your usual MO of claiming an article you provided a link to said something that, in fact, is not said in the text. You do this so often it’s almost comical. And yes, I will continue to point it out every time I see you do it. ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2011, 10:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/glenn-becks-targets-frances-fox-piven-of-cloward-piven-targets-fitting-word/568430/86 "2011-01-24T22:48:52Z")
> [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#): > > No, you really don’t know me at all. Caught you in another baseless assertion not supported by facts right there. Uh huh. You go on believing that. > [@](#): > > But my real point stands: you made a claim about what was said in the article, and when challenged you resorted to your usual MO of claiming anarticle you provided a link to said something that, in fact, is not said in the text. You do this so often it’s almost comical. Be specific. What did I say the article contains that it does not, in fact, contain? Surely you can do that, right? I mean, you wouldn’t toss around accusations of mendacity lightly, would you? > [@](#): > > And yes, I will continue to point it out every time I see you do it. And every time I refute you and provide a cite like I just did, you’ll vanish, then you’ll pull the same trick next time. You’re a one-trick pony. ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2011, 10:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/glenn-becks-targets-frances-fox-piven-of-cloward-piven-targets-fitting-word/568430/87 "2011-01-24T22:52:08Z")
Well, well. The thread seems to have turned from what horrible words Beck _supposedly_\* said to the degree to which Piven’s _actual_ words call for violence. \*Such nice cricket music… ---
**Author:** ![Harborwolf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/c89c15/32.png) [@Harborwolf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Harborwolf)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2011, 11:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/glenn-becks-targets-frances-fox-piven-of-cloward-piven-targets-fitting-word/568430/88 "2011-01-24T23:12:32Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > Well, well. The thread seems to have turned from what horrible words Beck _supposedly_\* said to the degree to which Piven’s _actual_ words call for violence. > > \*Such nice cricket music… So again. Do we have Glenn Becks words? Anyone? If I’m wrong, I’d like to know it. Not that I wouldn’t take someones word for it. Happens so often that I’m able to tell that I’m wrong by the tired looks on peoples faces. This being the internet though, I can’t quite make the expressions out. I’ll simply have to settle for the words of Mr. Beck to know for sure. ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2011, 11:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/glenn-becks-targets-frances-fox-piven-of-cloward-piven-targets-fitting-word/568430/89 "2011-01-24T23:23:34Z")
> [@Harborwolf](#): > > So again. Do we have Glenn Becks words? Anyone? If I’m wrong, I’d like to know it. Not that I wouldn’t take someones word for it. Happens so often that I’m able to tell that I’m wrong by the tired looks on peoples faces. This being the internet though, I can’t quite make the expressions out. I’ll simply have to settle for the words of Mr. Beck to know for sure. [Get used to this.](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A9peZ5WOtL0&feature=related) ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2011, 11:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/glenn-becks-targets-frances-fox-piven-of-cloward-piven-targets-fitting-word/568430/90 "2011-01-24T23:37:17Z")
> [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > Here’s her article in [The Nation](http://www.thenation.com/article/157292/mobilizing-jobless). Read it yourself. I won’t expect a retraction of your suggestion that I’m lying. I know you better than that. I’ll call you a liar if you want, you sickening piece of shit. Look, I know why you do this. You believe hard that your side is correct, and that means sometimes you have to be like this in order to blindly defend them. I’m not saying that your responses are okay, I’m saying that given how utterly and mindlessly ideological you are I can see how you are forced to act like this. She doesn’t call for riots. That is a lie, and since you say that it makes you a liar. This isn’t the first time you’ve bent the truth. What she called for, liar, is _protests_. She said they will have to look like the recent unrest in Europe, not be like, as in similar levels of energy. Nowhere does she call for violence, at least in that article. If you weren’t a delusional liar who had a compulsive need to whitewash the right’s bullshit you would see that. So get off your high horse and swallow your faux indignation, you lying scumbag. ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2011, 11:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/glenn-becks-targets-frances-fox-piven-of-cloward-piven-targets-fitting-word/568430/91 "2011-01-24T23:41:04Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > Well, well. The thread seems to have turned from what horrible words Beck _supposedly_\* said to the degree to which Piven’s _actual_ words call for violence. > > \*Such nice cricket music… Hey, stupid. You’re not supposed to declare victory when you’re loosing the fight. 😃 Also there is a link to Beck’s video in this thread. ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2011, 11:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/glenn-becks-targets-frances-fox-piven-of-cloward-piven-targets-fitting-word/568430/92 "2011-01-24T23:47:17Z")
> [@Lobohan](#): > > I’ll call you a liar if you want, you sickening piece of shit. > > Look, I know why you do this. You believe hard that your side is correct, and that means sometimes you have to be like this in order to blindly defend them. I’m not saying that your responses are okay, I’m saying that given how utterly and mindlessly ideological you are I can see how you are forced to act like this. > > She doesn’t call for riots. That is a lie, and since you say that it makes you a liar. This isn’t the first time you’ve bent the truth. > > What she called for, liar, is _protests_. She said they will have to look like the recent unrest in Europe, not be like, as in similar levels of energy. Nowhere does she call for violence, at least in that article. If you weren’t a delusional liar who had a compulsive need to whitewash the right’s bullshit you would see that. > > So get off your high horse and swallow your faux indignation, you lying scumbag. Thanks for the hilarious post, Chuckle Head. Talk about irony!!! But the part that really tickled me was the way you got up on your percheron and then argued—and this was really good— that Piven merely called for “protests”. Protests that looked like those in Europe, yessiree, many much of which were riotous, but she never actually called for actual riots. Ahh, if only you weren’t so blind yourself to see how fucking weak and pathetic your defense is. But because you can’t, yet you bellow from your mighty steed with the righteousness of Mother Teresa, it’s a friggin’ knee-slapper. Your friends in clown school would be envious. ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2011, 11:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/glenn-becks-targets-frances-fox-piven-of-cloward-piven-targets-fitting-word/568430/93 "2011-01-24T23:49:28Z")
> [@Lobohan](#): > > Hey, stupid. You’re not supposed to declare victory when you’re loosing the fight. 😃 > > Also there is a link to Beck’s video in this thread. Please provide the actual words that support the OP and explain the link. ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2011, 11:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/glenn-becks-targets-frances-fox-piven-of-cloward-piven-targets-fitting-word/568430/94 "2011-01-24T23:57:10Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > Thanks for the hilarious post, Chuckle Head. Talk about irony!!! But the part that really tickled me was the way you got up on your percheron and then argued—and this was really good— that Piven merely called for “protests”. Protests that looked like those in Europe, yessiree, many much of which were riotous, but she never actually called for actual riots. > > Ahh, if only you weren’t so blind yourself to see how fucking weak and pathetic your defense is. But because you can’t, yet you bellow from your mighty steed with the righteousness of Mother Teresa, it’s a friggin’ knee-slapper. Your friends in clown school would be envious. A dildo looks like a penis. Are they the same? Also, Mother Theresa was a delusional bitch, so I’ll have you know my righteousness level is orders of magnitude higher. ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2011, 12:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/glenn-becks-targets-frances-fox-piven-of-cloward-piven-targets-fitting-word/568430/95 "2011-01-25T00:00:25Z")
> [@Lobohan](#): > > A dildo looks like a penis. Are they the same? > > Also, Mother Theresa was a delusional bitch, so I’ll have you know my righteousness level is orders of magnitude higher. You look like a penis? If you say so. ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2011, 12:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/glenn-becks-targets-frances-fox-piven-of-cloward-piven-targets-fitting-word/568430/96 "2011-01-25T00:14:32Z")
> [@Lobohan](#): > > I’ll call you a liar if you want, you sickening piece of shit. > > Look, I know why you do this. You believe hard that your side is correct, and that means sometimes you have to be like this in order to blindly defend them. I’m not saying that your responses are okay, I’m saying that given how utterly and mindlessly ideological you are I can see how you are forced to act like this. > > She doesn’t call for riots. That is a lie, and since you say that it makes you a liar. This isn’t the first time you’ve bent the truth. > > What she called for, liar, is _protests_. She said they will have to look like the recent unrest in Europe, not be like, as in similar levels of energy. Nowhere does she call for violence, at least in that article. If you weren’t a delusional liar who had a compulsive need to whitewash the right’s bullshit you would see that. > > So get off your high horse and swallow your faux indignation, you lying scumbag. You want to spin her letter as a call for non-violent protest only? Let me quote some choice passages: > [@](#): > > So where are the angry crowds, the demonstrations, sit-ins and unruly mobs? After all, the injustice is apparent. Working people are losing their homes and their pensions while robber-baron CEOs report renewed profits and windfall bonuses. Shouldn’t the unemployed be on the march? Perhaps she’s talking about _peaceful_ unruly mobs? And describing CEOs as ‘robber barons’ isn’t inciteful at all. Oh no. > [@](#): > > …a kind of psychological transformation has to take place; the out-of-work have to stop blaming themselves for their hard times and turn their anger on the bosses, the bureaucrats or the politicians who are in fact responsible. > > Third, protesters need targets, preferably local and accessible ones capable of making some kind of response to angry demands. So… they have to turn anger and blame on others. They need _targets_. Preferably _accessible_ ones who will then cave in to ‘angry demands’. Not exactly Gandhi, is she? You know, I’m pretty sure another public figure got in hot water recently for using a ‘target’ metaphor. I can’t remember who she was. I’m pretty sure her first name starts with an ‘S’. Of course, she was talking about targeting a district in an election - a get out out the vote campaign. Piven is talking about ACTUALLY targeting individuals who are ‘accessible’ (i.e. who can be threatened). Continuing… > [@](#): > > Local protests have to accumulate and spread—and become more disruptive—to create serious pressures on national politicians. An effective movement of the unemployed will have to look something like the strikes and riots that have spread across Greece in response to the austerity measures forced on the Greek government by the European Union, or like the student protests that recently spread with lightning speed across England in response to the prospect of greatly increased school fees. Hmm… They’ll have to be more ‘disruptive’, will they? With the Greece riots held up as an example of the kind of disruption required. How could you ever assume from that her desire to see protests turn angry and violent? It’s so confusing! > [@](#): > > A loose and spontaneous movement of this sort could emerge. It is made more likely because unemployment rates are especially high among younger workers. Protests by the unemployed led by young workers and by students, who face a future of joblessness, just might become large enough and disruptive enough to have an impact in Washington. There is no science that predicts eruption of protest movements. Who expected the angry street mobs in Athens or the protests by British students? Who indeed predicted the strike movement that began in the United States in 1934, or the civil rights demonstrations that spread across the South in the early 1960s? We should hope for another American social movement from the bottom—and then join it. We’ve talked about her examples of Greece and the student protests, but here she’s specifically describing them as ‘angry street mobs’. She also mentions the 1934 protests as something to hope for. Are you familiar with them? What distinguished 1934 from previous years of strikes and protests is that in 1934 the Trucker’s unions and others turned violent. They started ‘roving pickets’, which meant trucks full of goons driving around town looking for ‘scabs’, blocking their way, then hauling them out of their trucks and dumping their loads. Beatings and threats of beatings were common. You also might want to look up “The Battle of Deputies Run”, in which thousands of protesters armed with clubs started violent conflicts with police that resulted in two deaths and 48 serious injuries, and ultimately the declaration of martial law. Here are some [eyewitness accounts](http://www.marxists.org/history/etol/document/usa/mpls01.htm) from those 1934 strikes. Let me quote from one: > [@William Kitt](#): > > The first real fight occurred Saturday morning in the market, when 500 pickets battled with their bare fists, trying to prevent 600 cops and deputies armed with clubs and blackjacks from moving two trucks. The cops succeeded in getting the trucks through, but only after bitter fighting in which the unarmed strikers gave a good account of themselves, sending many cops to the hospital. > > Sunday was comparatively quiet. The men were thinking hard and learning fast. > > Early Monday morning hundreds of pickets assembled at the market armed with clubs, rubber hose, and other improvised weapons. They were no longer a mass of strikers, they were soldiers obeying orders from their captains. Police attempted to disperse the pickets and the fight was on. The strikers rushed the cops, who went down like nine-pins. After considerable fighting the cops drew their guns and threatened to fire. The workers showed their defiance. But the cops had had enough and asked the pickets to drop their clubs, saying that they would drop theirs. The strikers were not fooled by this and stood their ground. No trucks moved that day. > > At dawn Tuesday, hundreds of cops and special deputies began to pour into the market until there were over a thousand. They were concentrated at strategic points. Later the strikers began to arrive by truckfuls. Thousands of sympathetic onlookers lined the streets. The strikers moved with military precision, maneuvering skillfully for vantage points. Their plan was to catch the cops from the rear and divide their forces. Many reserves were stationed in the Central Labor Headquarters nearby. > > As the morning wore on, there were numerous skirmishes that heralded the battle to come. Just about noon the fight started, when a deputized female attempted to club a woman picket. The plucky woman seized a club from a picket at her side and stretched her flat. With a roar that was heard for blocks, the strikers swept away the specials and cops. The specials made no effort to stem the tide but turned and fled, tossing away their clubs and badges as they ran. Many were cornered in stalls and blind alleys and laid out three deep. Clubs swung everywhere as the fighting pickets surged irresistibly through the rows of stalls smashing down all opposition. Several truckloads of deputies attempting to escape were surrounded and transferred to the mounting casualty list. In desperation the regular cops drove their cars into the ranks of the strikers in a vain effort to stop them. Ambulances worked overtime taking away the specials. > > Within half an hour the strikers had complete control of the market. The cops and deputies were completely licked. More than 50 special cops were injured, two of whom died subsequently. A few pickets were hurt. No further efforts were made to move the trucks. The bosses agreed to recognize the union. THIS is what she’s hoping for. All you need is enough ‘disruption’. ---
**Author:** ![fumster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e9c0ed/32.png) [@fumster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fumster)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2011, 12:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/glenn-becks-targets-frances-fox-piven-of-cloward-piven-targets-fitting-word/568430/97 "2011-01-25T00:14:41Z")
You are all making this too hard. Just remember that when a liberal advocates someone using their first amendment rights it is a call to violence, and when a conservative calls for second amendment remedies they are referring to fuzzy kittens. ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2011, 12:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/glenn-becks-targets-frances-fox-piven-of-cloward-piven-targets-fitting-word/568430/98 "2011-01-25T00:20:17Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > You look like a penis? That must be why your mom keeps following me around. I don’t mean a particular insult by that, I was just stating that your mom is a whore. And probably you are the result of her frantically fucking a homeless man in the gutter. PROTIP: You aren’t charming or clever enough to burn people. It sounds awkward. You should stop. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2011, 12:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/glenn-becks-targets-frances-fox-piven-of-cloward-piven-targets-fitting-word/568430/99 "2011-01-25T00:21:17Z")
1934, **Sam**? _1934_? ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2011, 12:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/glenn-becks-targets-frances-fox-piven-of-cloward-piven-targets-fitting-word/568430/100 "2011-01-25T00:47:43Z")
> [@Lobohan](#): > > That must be why your mom keeps following me around. I don’t mean a particular insult by that, I was just stating that your mom is a whore. And probably you are the result of her frantically fucking a homeless man in the gutter. > > PROTIP: You aren’t charming or clever enough to burn people. It sounds awkward. You should stop. Colossal fail. Maybe you should hang around a grade school and listen to their taunts (before you diddle them) to improve your schtick. 😃 And hey, I wasn’t the one who claimed you looked like a penis, you did, Chuckle Head. Now that you’ve shared a bit about your appearance I see “Chuckle Head” works in more ways than one. Assuming you look like a funny/malformed penis? Is that the case, or do you resemble just a run-of-the-mill penis? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/glenn-becks-targets-frances-fox-piven-of-cloward-piven-targets-fitting-word/568430.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/glenn-becks-targets-frances-fox-piven-of-cloward-piven-targets-fitting-word/568430.md?page=6)