# Global warming question(s) **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [January 5, 2009, 10:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/global-warming-question-s/480003 "2009-01-05T22:18:22Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2009, 10:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/global-warming-question-s/480003/1 "2009-01-05T22:18:22Z")
Though I know that any question about Global Warming generally sparks a debate I’m hoping for GQ style answers here. My question has to do with retreating ice at the poles, especially the North Pole, and in Greenland. I was reading an article earlier and they were taking about the Arctic region being ice free sometime in my lifetime. What I’d like to see is a chart or graph showing the recession of ice there for as long as we have been recording such things (if such a chart or graph exists). Also, I have a question about Greenland wrt Global Warming. Greenland’s ice sheet is melting as well of course, so my question has to do with the early Viking settlements on Greenland. How different are conditions today on Greenland to how they were at the height of the Viking settlements? Is there more open land (i.e. less covered in ice) today and is it more habitable today than it was then? Are temperatures higher today on Greenland than they were then? -XT ---
**Author:** ![Squink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@Squink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squink)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2009, 10:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/global-warming-question-s/480003/2 "2009-01-05T22:51:28Z")
[The Cryosphere Today](http://arctic.atmos.uiuc.edu/cryosphere/) [Northern hemisphere sea ice area](http://arctic.atmos.uiuc.edu/cryosphere/IMAGES/current.area.jpg), 1978 to present. ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2009, 11:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/global-warming-question-s/480003/3 "2009-01-05T23:05:34Z")
Thanks…exactly what I was looking for wrt the sea ice question. -XT ---
**Author:** ![Polycarp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/82dd89/32.png) [@Polycarp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polycarp)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2009, 3:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/global-warming-question-s/480003/4 "2009-01-06T03:56:46Z")
Between the first settlements in Greenland in 986 and the early 1200s, the climate seems to have been _relatively_ warm, conducive to boreal farming, along parts of both coasts, there being settlements along the southern parts of both east and west coasts. Climate began getting worse in the 1200s, and Greenland Eskimos moved south, displacing the Western Settlement by 1340. By 1250 sea ice made reaching the Eastern Settlement hazardous, and worsening climate and advancing ice appears to have done it in, though it seems to have kept a toehold until nearly 1500. (Source:Gwyn Jones, _A History of the Vikings_, Oxford U. Press, pp. 292-311). ---
**Author:** ![spike404](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@spike404](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/spike404)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2009, 4:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/global-warming-question-s/480003/5 "2009-01-06T04:23:52Z")
Where are the stats from ~1498 to 1978? ---
**Author:** ![Baffle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/dec6dc/32.png) [@Baffle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baffle)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2009, 4:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/global-warming-question-s/480003/6 "2009-01-06T16:36:17Z")
> [@Squink](#): > > [The Cryosphere Today](http://arctic.atmos.uiuc.edu/cryosphere/) On this link there appears to be a circular melt spot directly above the North Pole. Why is this there? ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2009, 4:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/global-warming-question-s/480003/7 "2009-01-06T16:37:13Z")
I think it’s just an overlay to show where the pole is, not an actual melt spot. -XT ---
**Author:** ![puppygod](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ce7236/32.png) [@puppygod](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puppygod)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2009, 5:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/global-warming-question-s/480003/8 "2009-01-06T17:55:40Z")
> [@spike404](#): > > Where are the stats from ~1498 to 1978? Most data collected by medieval satellite imaging and network of arctic stations was lost during Thirty Years’ War. Seriously though, you can download data for years 1870 - 2008 from Cryosphere Today site. [Here parsed](http://arctic.atmos.uiuc.edu/SEAICE/) for your convenience. ---
**Author:** ![spike404](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@spike404](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/spike404)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2009, 7:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/global-warming-question-s/480003/9 "2009-01-06T19:04:47Z")
From 1870? Since the north pole was not even attained until 1909, how was the supposed data gathered? Eskimos on dog sleds? ---
**Author:** ![mlees](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba8739/32.png) [@mlees](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mlees)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2009, 7:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/global-warming-question-s/480003/10 "2009-01-06T19:29:33Z")
> [@spike404](#): > > From 1870? > > Since the north pole was not even attained until 1909, how was the supposed data gathered? Eskimos on dog sleds? Speculation: By digging up deep layers of Ice or hard packed snow (that was thought to have been layed down at that time) and chemically examining them. ---
**Author:** ![mlees](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba8739/32.png) [@mlees](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mlees)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2009, 7:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/global-warming-question-s/480003/11 "2009-01-06T19:39:32Z")
> [@mlees](#): > > Speculation: By digging up deep layers of Ice or hard packed snow (that was thought to have been layed down at that time) and chemically examining them. Further explanation of specualtion: For example, they can measure ice movement inside a glacier, and speculate that the ice at the “x” foot layer was formed in 1870. Bore it out, and chemically examine the sample to see the environmental conditions in which it formed. You can examine scratch marks on rocks to see the movement of ice in the past. (Like tide lines. Heh.) ---
**Author:** ![spike404](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@spike404](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/spike404)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2009, 7:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/global-warming-question-s/480003/12 "2009-01-06T19:55:00Z")
Out of curiosity, I looked up the antonyms of speculation—fact, information, reality, truth. ---
**Author:** ![SCSimmons](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e495f1/32.png) [@SCSimmons](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SCSimmons)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2009, 8:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/global-warming-question-s/480003/13 "2009-01-06T20:13:19Z")
Well, rather than hanging around dictionaries (boring!), I followed the link to the data to see if there was any information attached about where it came from … Lo and behold! > [@JE Walsh](#): > > Please note that large portions of the pre-1953, and almost all of the pre-1900 data is either climatology or interpolated data and the user is cautioned to use this data with care (see “Expert user guidance”, below) … > > There are three periods for which the sources of the data change fundamentally: > > 1972-1998: Satellite period - hemispheric coverage, state-of-the-art data accuracy > 1953-1971: Hemispheric observations - complete coverage from a variety of sources. The observational reliability varies with each source, but is generally accurate. > 1870-1952: Climatology with increasing amounts of observed data throughout the period. > > Because most of the direct observations of sea ice (1870-1971 period) are from ships at sea, they are generally the most complete near the ice edge. The conditions north of the ice edge are often assumed to be 100% covered during this period. The satellite era has shown otherwise with concentrations between 70-90% frequently occurring well north of the ice edge in the post-1972 data. For this reason, we recommend using a measure of ice extent, when doing historical comparisons of hemispheric sea ice coverage for periods which include data prior to 1972. This is done by assuming that all grid points with ice concentrations greater than some threshold (15% is commonly used) is assumed completely covered by sea ice. ---
**Author:** ![UncleBill](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/d26b3c/32.png) [@UncleBill](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UncleBill)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2009, 12:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/global-warming-question-s/480003/14 "2009-01-07T00:26:05Z")
The University of Illinois’s Arctic Climate Research Center recently released a study of global sea ice levels (on average) are the same as they were in 1979, the year global satellite data gathering was begun. This is “floating” ice, not Greenland glaciers and such, but it does include the North Pole, which saw a significant rebound in the latter half of 2008 with regards to ice coverage, according to this article This rebound was attributed (by one of the researchers) to colder temperatures, less wind, and less snow cover. [http://www.dailytech.com/Article.aspx?newsid=13834](http://www.dailytech.com/Article.aspx?newsid=13834) One data point to consider. ---
**Author:** ![brazil84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/8491ac/32.png) [@brazil84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brazil84)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2009, 2:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/global-warming-question-s/480003/15 "2009-01-07T02:00:32Z")
Here is a [graph](http://www.grisda.org/origins/images/10058-1h.gif) which may be of interest. It purports to show “Polar Ice at the Coast of Iceland” over time. It comes from [this article](http://www.grisda.org/origins/10051.htm), which may also be of interest. ---
**Author:** ![Deeg](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/deeg/32/2955_2.png) [@Deeg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Deeg)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2009, 2:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/global-warming-question-s/480003/16 "2009-01-07T02:10:29Z")
Neat, [grisda.org](http://grisda.org) also has an article on the [search for Noah’s Ark](http://www.grisda.org/origins/08077.htm). ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2009, 2:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/global-warming-question-s/480003/17 "2009-01-07T02:31:27Z")
> [@brazil84](#): > > Here is a [graph](http://www.grisda.org/origins/images/10058-1h.gif) which may be of interest. It purports to show “Polar Ice at the Coast of Iceland” over time. > > It comes from [this article](http://www.grisda.org/origins/10051.htm), which may also be of interest. Just to clarify, [grisda.org](http://grisda.org) is “a research group dedicated to integrating science and faith.” You probably don’t want to use them as a serious scientific cite. ---
**Author:** ![Rune](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e68b1a/32.png) [@Rune](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rune)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2009, 2:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/global-warming-question-s/480003/18 "2009-01-07T02:47:20Z")
They are overjoyed in Greenland, since they are already now starting to be able to farm their own vegetables, fruit and berries. It’s part of the official Greenlandic future strategy to take advantage of this in the future. ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2009, 2:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/global-warming-question-s/480003/19 "2009-01-07T02:50:56Z")
[Nasa.org](http://Nasa.org) is usually a safe and neutral site for scientific questions. A [google search](http://www.google.com/search?num=100&hl=en&safe=off&rls=com.microsoft:en-us&sa=X&oi=spell&resnum=0&ct=result&cd=1&q=Arctic+Ice+cap+site%3Anasa.gov&spell=1)of “Arctic Ice cap site:nasa.gov” will give many articles and studies to review. Or you could search Nasa itself for [Shrinking Ice Caps](http://earthobservatory.nasa.gov/Search/index.php?q=Shrinking+Ice+caps&g=4) This is an interesting article: [When it Comes to Sea Level Changing Glaciers, New NASA Technique Measures Up](http://earthobservatory.nasa.gov/Newsroom/view.php?id=35949) ---
**Author:** ![brazil84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/8491ac/32.png) [@brazil84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brazil84)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2009, 3:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/global-warming-question-s/480003/20 "2009-01-07T03:03:47Z")
> [@What\_Exit](#): > > Just to clarify, [grisda.org](http://grisda.org) is “a research group dedicated to integrating science and faith.” :shrug: I have no reason to believe that Tkachuck misrepresented anything with his graph, which is apparently adapted from a 1977 work by Hubert H. Lamb. William Connelly apparently says that Lamb was eminent in his field. If you want to debate the contents of the Tkachuck paper, feel free to open a thread in the debate forum. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/global-warming-question-s/480003.md?page=2)