I don’t like bdgr’s plan. Nor do I like how it was offered. I think that if you are going to inject a proposal into a discussion that already contains arguments against it you should have the decency to address them. As ** MGibson** has pointed out we, some of us anyways, have learned the follies of drug war. How is Drug War Later any better than Drug War Now?
I also think that if some other do-gooder doesn’t show up in the Advertising Tobacco thread by tomorrow I’m going to have to actually back up my own assertion. Sheesh!
I wish people would shut the hell up with slippery slope arguments about twinkies and McDonalds being next to be banned. The addictive nature of tobacco puts the allure of a 1/4 pounder with cheese to shame. When you say that Little Debbie is next to be axed you sound like you have no other argument.
Also next in line is the Prohibition analogy. That gets thrown around way too much since alcohol is readily made from a variety of products, and cigarettes would be harder to make. This would lead to vast fields of tobacco in foreign countries, similar to coca and poppy fields. What I’m not sure about is the ability to farm tobacco in countries besides America. I know the US grows a lot of tobacco due to climate, and much of it is shipped to countries where smoking is still cool. I wonder if millions of smokers outside of the US would be saved from yellow teeth and cancer if America stopped producing coffin nails, or if some other country would pick up the slack.
And what’s this advertising nonsense? Kids these days smoke in order to look grown up. Like always. And forevermore. Hollywood is better equipped to show smoking as uncool, and I think they’ve done a better job of that recently than they did in the 1940’s frintense.
Um, all this while Canadian federal gov’t is throwing around a bill to decriminalize an amount of marijuana in a person’s possession that would amount to 20 joints.
I can just see it…tobacco illegal in USA, and marijauna possession legal in Canada…:eek: :dubious:
Hmm, you all can come to Canada to smoke yourselves silly, and I’m gonna move to the states!
Tobacco wasn’t initially targetted because it was addictive it was targetted because of the detrimental health effects it had on the population. Obesity is linked to a large number of ailments in the United States such as diabetes, heart disease, back and joint pain, etc. Obesity and a poor diet in general has an impact on health care in the United States. Why can’t we add a fat tax on fast food items, snack type food at the supermarket, soda pop, or that buttery topping they use at the movies? If we can have a sin tax on alcohol and tobacco we ought to have one on fatty foods as well.
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A lot of cigars are produced offshore so I’m sure they’ll be able to grow it in one form or another. Also, there’s big money to be made in tobacco in the nations that wouldn’t ban it so someone out there would pick up the slack.
I think most kids smoke because of their peers or because of their parents. I’m sure a fraction of them smoke because of what they’ve seen on television or the movies just like a small fraction of them imitate Jackass on the MTV.
Fat tax would be tough…just on ‘junk’ food? All pops, chips, candy, etc. What about ice cream and those treats…or cheese…all milk products?
But what about hamburger in the store vs burgers at the restaurants? Will only fast food restaurants be charged?
It’s hard to draw a line there. Then there’s cheese dips and such at service restaurants. But if cheese is already taxed…that should take care of the taxes the restaurant pays to purchase the cheese, and the cost passed onto customers with raised prices.
All that said, education is the key to putting a stop to all this unhealthy living. Also, parents need to start using their brains and make good examples of themselves!! The big say no to drugs and anti-smoking campaigns in the 80’s kept me from being at all tempted after hearing what happens to your body when you start using those things. Cigarettes actual change the brain permanently, that’s why it is so hard to quit! And it makes you look older and grayer, and smell, etc.
Don’t make it illegal, start telling your kids how gross it is from an early age. It does help at least.
It’s hard to tax everything with fat, fat is in most everything…even vegetables where we get vegetable oil.
What about white bread…eating that instead of whole wheat is harmful because it lacks essential nutrition, like magnesium for the brain!
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A lot of differances. You get something other than cancer for your drug dollar. Cigs don’t do that much for you, so people would be less willing to go to jail for it. Also, a lot of people stopped smoking just because they cant at work or in public anymore…many more would stop if they had to buy from a dealer.
The thing is, I’m not really against people smoking tabacco if they want. I’m just against a company making a fortune of selling a dangerous product that they should have pulled from the market as soon as they found out how dangerous it is. If you wanna grow tobacco in your back yard, fine…have at it. If you sell it to someone else your liable just like if you sold them any other dangerous product.
People have been smoking tobacco for centuries before they foudn out the health risks. It isn’t as if some company invented tobacco. Should liquor companies also stop selling their obviously dangerous products?
Everybody who lights up these days is fully aware of the harmful effects tobacco has. Hell, the tobacco products themselves contain warnings. Tobacco companies shouldn’t be held liable when people are fully aware of what the product is. Can I sue Coors for messing up my liver? Can I sue McDonalds for making me fat? Can I sue Ford for building a car that took off my leg?
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Everything has a risk associated with it, just that tobacco is exceedingly dangerous, and addictive.
Well, many people were not aware of the risks when they started, and are now to addicted to quit. Many were too young to understand the risks. Take the addictive nature of it out of the picture and maybe there is an argument to be made…But still, if I was selling something, and found out it was killing people…I would stop selling it, and they should have.
Since when do we have the right to buy…anything? I want a pet squirrel, but the state government won’t let me buy one, is that an infringement of any of my rights? I can’t find anything in the constitution or bill of rights that suggests so, unfortunately. The government has always decided what is and isn’t ok to sell in this country.
Not really… The constitution quite specifically reserves the rights not enumerated in the constitution for the “states and the people.” The arguement that we should not have the right to do something just because it is not specifically given to us in the constitution is a red herring.
So, the argument is not “Can the government take away my right to buy tobacco”, the argument is “Can the U.S. Federal government (as opposed to a U.S. State government) take away my right to buy tobacco.”
And there, we get into the God-awful morass that is the Interstate Commerce Clause of the U.S. Constitution.
IIRC, the nicotine levels in modern cigarettes are lower than what our ancestors would have experienced, however, it’s been processed in such a manner that it gets into one’s bloodstream faster.
Well, yes and no. Had the Supreme Court allowed the FDA to assert jurisdiction over tobacco a couple of years ago, there’d have been no Commerce Clause issues. But they didn’t. A bill giving the FDA jurisdiction over tobacco might be trickier, but SCOTUS would probably let it go–especially since they basically begged Congress to do just that in their FDA decision.
Although I prefer a Mikadoesque solution since we don’t live in Singapore that is not possible. Then why not call smoking a sickness? It’s an addiction so call it a sickness. Then you can incarcerate people indefinitely in smoke free environments. That is a simple cure. The solution I really favor is expedited death for anyone growing tobacco or selling it. Indefinite incarceration till cured for addicts. The prevalence of smoking is like the use of opium in China long ago. The Brits were laughing all the way to the bank. Nobody paid for those crimes and no-one will make the tobacco billionaires pay either. So much for justice in this life.
Not hard at all. I have a friend who rolls his own cigarettes with rolling papers. All you need is the tobaccy.
I doubt that tobacco will thrive in a basement, even if you have grow lights. It is easier to detect than marijuana I would say, but I’ve never grown tobacco. However, I imagine that states like Kentucky and North Carolina will not invest a helluva lot of resources in cracking down and you can grow tobacco out in fields, maybe screening it with corn or other plants.
Some people out in rural areas could grow it in fields. All they have to worry about is helicopters. Hell, I could grow a bunch in the field behind my house if I got my landlord’s permission and wanted to invest time in it.
People in other countries will be happy to sell us tobacco, just like they do marijuana and cocaine. I think it would be easier to regulate in the sense that a feild of tobacco will be easier to spot from the air than a few marijuana plants. On the other hand, there will be a lot of resistance to making tobacco illegal and I suspect the authorities in some places will simply turn their heads.
It seems to me that the people who want to make it illegal tend to be liberals.
IMO, this is a stupid proposal. The War on Drugs has worked so well that only an idiot would extend it to a plant that’s been legal for centuries.
