# Glucosamine supplements- I smell a rat **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [June 18, 2015, 2:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/glucosamine-supplements-i-smell-a-rat/722853 "2015-06-18T14:48:31Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 18\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Lumpy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lumpy/32/446_2.png) [@Lumpy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lumpy)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2015, 2:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/glucosamine-supplements-i-smell-a-rat/722853/1 "2015-06-18T14:48:31Z")
In another post I mentioned my knee pain and a respondent recommended glucosamine. It sounded worth a try, but most brands are very expensive. After searching around a bit I found a bottle of Sun Valley Glucosamine Sulfate 1000mg for ~$12.00; affordable. However now that I’ve checked the back label more carefully it says “Glucosamine Sulfate Potassium Chloride 1000 mg”. IOW, are the tablets mostly salt with vanishingly little actual glucosamine? Does anyone know where I could look up the glucosamine content? Maybe I could market Gold Ingots with the small print saying “Contains: gold dirt gravel 1 kilogram”. ---
**Author:** ![Amateur\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/59ef9b/32.png) [@Amateur\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Amateur_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2015, 3:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/glucosamine-supplements-i-smell-a-rat/722853/2 "2015-06-18T15:10:04Z")
First of all, most supplements are either wholly unregulated or only regulated in the sense that they can’t contain controlled substances or known toxins. So yes, you could market Glucosamine Tablets that contained no more than a sprinkle of gluc. I’m not even sure you would have to disclose that in the labeling as long as you met the ingredients listing requirement. Second, there are two kinds of Glucosamine, one that is ‘dietarily useful’ and one that is not (and essentially passes right through to Mr. Toidy.) Guess which one is more expensive. Third… well, if you think it helps, I won’t argue, but the tide is running against the usefulness of glucosamine and chondritin for human joint issues. Oddly enough, it does seem to work for dogs. ---
**Author:** ![Sigene](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/df788c/32.png) [@Sigene](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sigene)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2015, 4:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/glucosamine-supplements-i-smell-a-rat/722853/3 "2015-06-18T16:21:43Z")
I’m a pretty vigorous scientist and am an unapologetic skeptic on many things including supplements. My purely anecdotal experience is that taking Glucosamine chondroitin is positively correlated with my wrist pain being eased. I’ve had two doctors and one pharmacist specifically tell me (when I asked if it was bunk) that it does indeed seem to work. I know of another pretty serious scientist who concurs. I’m willing to have my mind changed when presented new information, but this is currently the only supplement that I do believe has some positive affect. ---
**Author:** ![purplehorseshoe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/purplehorseshoe/32/2996_2.png) [@purplehorseshoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/purplehorseshoe)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2015, 4:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/glucosamine-supplements-i-smell-a-rat/722853/4 "2015-06-18T16:27:15Z")
OP, I think the cheapie supplement you found is very worthy of your concerns about the actual content of the desired ingredient, as reflected in the much lower price. Like **Sigene** , I have wrist problems (not carpal tunnel issues – it’s compression damage to the cartilage) and the painful grindy-clicking and overall achiness both seem to dissipate when I’m good about taking gluc/chondr. supplements that aren’t sold at bottom-barrel prices. Maybe it’s a placebo effect in my case, but since it works for me – literally works, as in my perception of pain is diminished, no matter what the mechanism – I’ll go on taking them. ---
**Author:** ![usedtobe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ec9cab/32.png) [@usedtobe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/usedtobe)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2015, 6:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/glucosamine-supplements-i-smell-a-rat/722853/5 "2015-06-19T06:02:55Z")
“Glucosamine Sulfate Potassium Chloride” is one of the chemical names for the supplement. See: [http://www.webmd.com/vitamins-supplements/ingredientmono-807-glucosamine%20sulfate.aspx?activeingredientid=807&activeingredientname=glucosamine%20sulfate](http://www.webmd.com/vitamins-supplements/ingredientmono-807-glucosamine%20sulfate.aspx?activeingredientid=807&activeingredientname=glucosamine%20sulfate) Click on “see all names” ---
**Author:** ![Balthisar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/balthisar/32/2825_2.png) [@Balthisar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Balthisar)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2015, 7:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/glucosamine-supplements-i-smell-a-rat/722853/6 "2015-06-19T07:59:25Z")
> [@Sigene](#): > > My purely anecdotal experience is that taking Glucosamine chondroitin is positively correlated with my wrist pain being eased. I’ve had two doctors and one pharmacist specifically tell me (when I asked if it was bunk) that it does indeed seem to work. I know of another pretty serious scientist who concurs. In the spirit of lots of anecdotes makes lots of datas (this is irony), I have a subject with a similar experience that’s immune to placebo effects: my dog. Upon the recommendation of our vet, I started giving her (the dog, not the vet) glucosamine supplements for her joint symptoms, and they seems to improve her willingness and ability to move significantly. I suppose one could argue that the placebo affected my perception of her, though. :smack: ---
**Author:** ![Crazier\_Catlady](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Crazier\_Catlady](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crazier_Catlady)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2015, 11:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/glucosamine-supplements-i-smell-a-rat/722853/7 "2015-06-19T11:27:54Z")
I once used glucosamine supplements for my aching knees. They did improve considerably. But only to a point and after that the glucosamine didn’t do anything anymore. Never mind, the pain stayed gone even when I stopped taking the supplements. ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2015, 12:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/glucosamine-supplements-i-smell-a-rat/722853/8 "2015-06-19T12:02:15Z")
> [@Sigene](#): > > I’m a pretty vigorous scientist and am an unapologetic skeptic on many things including supplementsbut this is currently the only supplement that I do believe has some positive affect. I just wish you hadn’t prefaced your remarks with the equivalent of I’m-a-skeptic-but (familiar from too many ads).\* I’ve tried a glucosamine-chondroitin supplement without demonstrable effect, and saw the same outcome with our arthritic Labrador (who improved markedly on an NSAID). Some people report positive effects - but you also have to consider that arthritic conditions often go through good and bad spells by natural history. If you take a pill during a bad stretch, symptoms often will ease for a time on their own and the pill wrongly gets credit. No big problem with trying it though (except for expense). If possible I’d look for an independent report on content, seeing as how supplements often vary markedly as to whether what’s printed on the label matches what’s actually in the pill/capsule. \*my favorite is the young woman on TV who reported being skeptical about psychic hotlines, but the Hollywood Psychics Hotline (or whatever the hell they call it) was the Real Deal. ---
**Author:** ![Amateur\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/59ef9b/32.png) [@Amateur\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Amateur_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2015, 2:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/glucosamine-supplements-i-smell-a-rat/722853/9 "2015-06-19T14:05:39Z")
I think the effectiveness is a side issue for this question. Given that there are two tiers of pricing, one uniformly pretty high and one suspiciously low, I’d bet strongly that the low-cost stuff is either weakly compounded or uses cheaper forms of the supplement that are not as dietarily available, limiting whatever good the stuff might do. If you think the stuff works, buy the stuff that has the highest chance of actually working. To buy cheap stuff that almost certainly can’t do anything because your body can’t use it is just acknowledging it’s useless or a placebo effect. ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2015, 2:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/glucosamine-supplements-i-smell-a-rat/722853/10 "2015-06-19T14:16:26Z")
More [here](http://www.consumerreports.org/cro/magazine/2013/10/facts-about-joint-supplements/index.htm) about the dubious evidence for glucosamine/chondroitin supplements, and variable quality of products. ---
**Author:** ![usedtobe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ec9cab/32.png) [@usedtobe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/usedtobe)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2015, 10:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/glucosamine-supplements-i-smell-a-rat/722853/11 "2015-06-19T22:40:18Z")
While we are counting: +1 for “some relief” for osteoarthritis Of course, this was about the same month the FDA’s study concluded “no effect”. ---
**Author:** ![gazpacho](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/6f9a4e/32.png) [@gazpacho](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gazpacho)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2015, 12:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/glucosamine-supplements-i-smell-a-rat/722853/12 "2015-06-20T00:19:48Z")
> [@Jackmannii](#): > > More [here](http://www.consumerreports.org/cro/magazine/2013/10/facts-about-joint-supplements/index.htm) about the dubious evidence for glucosamine/chondroitin supplements, and variable quality of products. This is a problem for supplements in general. It seems like not really including the ingredients on the label is widespread. [http://well.blogs.nytimes.com/2015/02/03/new-york-attorney-general-targets-supplements-at-major-retailers/](http://well.blogs.nytimes.com/2015/02/03/new-york-attorney-general-targets-supplements-at-major-retailers/) ---
**Author:** ![HoneyBadgerDC](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/honeybadgerdc/32/1033_2.png) [@HoneyBadgerDC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HoneyBadgerDC)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2015, 4:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/glucosamine-supplements-i-smell-a-rat/722853/13 "2015-06-20T04:16:29Z")
Glucosamine as a supplement makes no sense to me. Once you digest it the glucosamine is gone. It is in almost everything we eat. The body has to manufacture it at the sight. ---
**Author:** ![rsa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/839c29/32.png) [@rsa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rsa)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2015, 11:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/glucosamine-supplements-i-smell-a-rat/722853/14 "2015-06-21T23:23:12Z")
Many supplements come in a form that is not the pure active ingredient. For example, two forms of magnesium supplements are magnesium oxide and magnesium aspartate which are both fine to raise magnesium levels in the body. You just need to compare the supplement facts label to make a valid comparison between different brands. Note that different formulations may have different levels of bioavailability and/or intended uses, so do a bit of Googling. ---
**Author:** ![nearwildheaven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/90db22/32.png) [@nearwildheaven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nearwildheaven)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2015, 11:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/glucosamine-supplements-i-smell-a-rat/722853/15 "2015-06-21T23:34:05Z")
> [@Sigene](#): > > I’m a pretty vigorous scientist and am an unapologetic skeptic on many things including supplements. > > My purely anecdotal experience is that taking Glucosamine chondroitin is positively correlated with my wrist pain being eased. I’ve had two doctors and one pharmacist specifically tell me (when I asked if it was bunk) that it does indeed seem to work. I know of another pretty serious scientist who concurs. > > I’m willing to have my mind changed when presented new information, but this is currently the only supplement that I do believe has some positive affect. I’m a pharmacist, and it does seem to work for some people. Even if it doesn’t, it’s harmless (except maybe to one’s bank account) but the only way to find out is to try it. ---
**Author:** ![purplehorseshoe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/purplehorseshoe/32/2996_2.png) [@purplehorseshoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/purplehorseshoe)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2015, 2:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/glucosamine-supplements-i-smell-a-rat/722853/16 "2015-06-22T14:46:33Z")
> [@HoneyBadgerDC](#): > > Glucosamine as a supplement makes no sense to me. Once you digest it the glucosamine is gone.\*\* It is in almost everything we eat.\*\* The body has to manufacture it at the sight. Cite for the part I bolded? I got curious, but turned up things like this: [http://www.livestrong.com/article/203234-what-foods-have-glucosamine/](http://www.livestrong.com/article/203234-what-foods-have-glucosamine/) > [@](#): > > Although there are few natural food sources of glucosamine … Most glucosamine supplements are made from the exoskeletons, or outer shells, of crustaceans. Edible crustaceans such as shrimp, lobster, crab and crawfish can provide trace amounts of glucosamine in their shells and tails. In most Western culinary traditions, these hard exoskeletons are discarded because they are difficult to chew and digest… Glucosamine occurs naturally in all forms of healthy cartilage. A butchered animal’s ears, snout and joint tissues contain glucosamine, but these tough, low-nutrient forms of offal are rarely consumed in the United States. Traditional peasant meats and sausages, such as hog’s head cheese, may provide trace amounts of glucosamine. Cartilaginous offal might also be used in stews or soups. [http://umm.edu/health/medical/altmed/supplement/glucosamine](http://umm.edu/health/medical/altmed/supplement/glucosamine) > [@](#): > > There are no major food sources of glucosamine, so you must get it from supplements. Most supplements are made from chitin, the hard outer shells of shrimp, lobsters, and crabs. Other forms of glucosamine are available for people who are allergic to shellfish. > Source: Glucosamine | University of Maryland Medical Center [Page Is No Longer Available](http://umm.edu/health/medical/altmed/supplement/glucosamine#ixzz3dnoTCVku) > University of Maryland Medical Center ---
**Author:** ![Derleth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Derleth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Derleth)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2015, 10:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/glucosamine-supplements-i-smell-a-rat/722853/17 "2015-06-22T22:25:12Z")
[Dietary supplements: Scary substances manufactured under scary conditions](http://scienceblogs.com/insolence/2012/07/02/dietary-supplements-scary-substances-manufactured-under-scary-conditions/): > [@](#): > > ``` > The inspection reports portray an industry struggling to meet basic manufacturing standards, from verifying the identity of the ingredients that go into its products to inspecting finished batches of supplements. > > Some firms don’t even have recipes, known as master manufacturing records, for their products. > > Others make their supplements in unsanitary factories. New Jersey-based Quality Formulation Laboratories produced protein powder mixes and other supplements in a facility infested with rodents, rodent feces and urine, according to government records. FDA inspectors found a rodent apparently cut in half next to a scoop, according to a 2008 inspection report. > > “It’s downright scary,” said Daniel Fabricant, head of the FDA’s Division of Dietary Supplement Programs. “At least half of industry is failing on its face.” > > ``` > [@](#): > > So far this year, FDA inspectors have found violations of good manufacturing practices during two-thirds of the 204 inspections they have conducted in nearly 200 supplement firms’ facilities, agency officials said. Seventy of these inspections resulted in the agency’s most serious rating. Which has the usual, predictable results: > [@](#): > > ``` > In 2008 more than 200 people — including a 4-year-old — were poisoned by selenium after taking liquid multivitamin dietary supplements that were sold in health stores and by chiropractors, according to a medical paper published on the mass poisoning. The products, called Total Body Formula and Total Body Mega Formula, contained an average of 40,800 micrograms of selenium per serving instead of 200, according to the paper. > > John Adams, of Chipley, Fla., was one of the victims. His silver hair — which had earned him the nickname “Silvertop” at work — began falling out in clumps. His fingernails and toenails became discolored, peeled off, regrew and peeled off again. He had a hard time remembering how to do his job as a telephone repairman. He became so weak it was hard to get in and out of his work truck, and eventually he was forced to retire. > > Adams and his wife, who also experienced problems, sued along with dozens of others. This year, the couple received a settlement. Adams, now 65, said he is still weak on his left side, has ruined fingernails and toenails that do not grow and struggles with memory problems. > > ``` I have nothing to add, really, other than that the rules have not changed and the companies have no reason to improve their practices. ---
**Author:** ![Surreal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/eada6e/32.png) [@Surreal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Surreal)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2015, 4:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/glucosamine-supplements-i-smell-a-rat/722853/18 "2015-06-23T16:56:05Z")
[Examine.com](http://Examine.com) has tons of info on glucosamine. They rate the level of evidence that it helps for pain and symptoms of osteoarthritis grade A (robust research conducted with repeated double blind clinical trials), although the effect size is small: > **[Glucosamine Health benefits, dosage, safety, side-effects, and more |...](https://examine.com/supplements/Glucosamine/)** > > The latest research on Glucosamine supplements. Expert analysis on potential benefits, dosage, side effects, and more.