# Gluing your self down for protest **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [October 21, 2022, 4:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gluing-your-self-down-for-protest/973598 "2022-10-21T16:30:36Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Wolf333](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolf333/32/3460_2.png) [@Wolf333](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wolf333)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2022, 6:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gluing-your-self-down-for-protest/973598/41 "2022-10-23T18:25:08Z")
Does that include lunch counters? ---
**Author:** ![Mighty\_Mouse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mighty_mouse/32/7776_2.png) [@Mighty\_Mouse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mighty_Mouse)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2022, 6:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gluing-your-self-down-for-protest/973598/42 "2022-10-23T18:28:26Z")
It include PEOPLE legally owned by other people. They needed to petition lawfully, not start a civil war to deprive people of their property. Sarcasm, I’m case it’s not obvious. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2022, 6:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gluing-your-self-down-for-protest/973598/43 "2022-10-23T18:32:57Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > No, That’s patently wrong. There’s not a “push” to drill every ounce of fossil fuel. Well, actually, there is. But the point is, it’s not Volkswagen that’s pushing it. And just because Volkswagen supports the right to protest doesn’t mean that they’re obligated to support every idiotic thing every idiot does, just because the idiot calls it a protest. ---
**Author:** ![Ulfreida](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ulfreida/32/8014_2.png) [@Ulfreida](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ulfreida)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2022, 6:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gluing-your-self-down-for-protest/973598/44 "2022-10-23T18:39:41Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > No, That’s patently wrong. There’s not a “push” to drill every ounce of fossil fuel. There is, however, the NEED to survive the transition to a fossil free world. And that need includes a need to shift where the fossil fuels are purchased from. Giving money to Russia, Iran, and Saudi Arabia is not in the free world’s best interest. By producing the oil we need at home we create taxes and wealth that accelerates the transition to EV’s. I don’t see this wrong you find so patent. The need to find more domestic sources of fossil fuels is a political one. It is not a global human need, and it is the _diametric opposite_ of what the planet needs. By pouring money into sustainable fuels and into conservations of the most imperative order, I would posit that such political “needs” could be obviated. along with the continuing destruction of the ecosphere they entail. Now, remember I am certain that the human race is so absolutely short sighted and greedy that we have already damned ourselves. If we suddenly by a miracle all woke up and realized the magnitude of what is coming for us if we don’t change course NOW, not in a smooth slow peaceful painless transition but NOW, no matter the cost to our comfort, I will revise my opinion. Your complacent “needs” mean nothing to the apocalypse we have built. ---
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2022, 7:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gluing-your-self-down-for-protest/973598/45 "2022-10-23T19:09:24Z")
> [@Wolf333](#): > > Does that include lunch counters? I can’t speak strongly to the private property aspect of this, but I’d note that that particular protest did have a clearly articulated goal. ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2022, 7:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gluing-your-self-down-for-protest/973598/46 "2022-10-23T19:12:47Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > If I understand your position correctly you approve of protest. Fine and dandy. Do you support people occupying your property for protest because of (pick an infinite number reasons)? > > Volkswagen’s approval of people protesting is not an open ended statement. It doesn’t mean they can take over and occupy their property. That’s against the law. I don’t know enough about the protest under discussion to approve or disapprove of it. But i know enough about Volkswagen to know they were caught cheating on emissions tests in a really significant way. > [@CaveMike](#): > > VW says they support their right to protest, but they clearly don’t. They’re not obligated to support them, obviously, so why not shut up about it? Seems like VW wants to have it both ways. And that they are lying now, too. So I’m certainly not going to blindly side with VW because they are making some EVs. ---
**Author:** ![Ulfreida](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ulfreida/32/8014_2.png) [@Ulfreida](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ulfreida)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2022, 7:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gluing-your-self-down-for-protest/973598/47 "2022-10-23T19:45:42Z")
Public protests are almost always intended to draw public attention to a perceived wrong being perpetrated. No matter how “moronic” they are, if they create public awareness of that wrong they are successful. They are only unsuccessful when either no one notices, or the majority of the public does not agree that the wrong is significant. ---
**Author:** ![Kropotkin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kropotkin/32/18045_2.png) [@Kropotkin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kropotkin)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2022, 9:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gluing-your-self-down-for-protest/973598/48 "2022-10-23T21:32:21Z")
I agree, though would add presumably many protestors seek to bring more people onside, and some tactics may work better than others at that; it’s pretty silly to expect everyone to “get it right” first time out, so a little forbearance regarding a particular protest is not amiss; and rabid thrashing against a particular protest often indicates the thrasher is actually opposed to the cause ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2022, 11:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gluing-your-self-down-for-protest/973598/49 "2022-10-23T23:41:36Z")
> [@Ulfreida](#): > > The need to find more domestic sources of fossil fuels is a political one. It is not a global human need, and it is the _diametric opposite_ of what the planet needs. I don’t see how you can say this in the face of what Russia, Iran, and Saudi Arabia are doing. It’s as if you’re completely unaware of the massive shift in global energy that is taking place. We can’t crap out zero emission production and consumption overnight. > [@Ulfreida](#): > > Now, remember I am certain that the human race is so absolutely short sighted and greedy that we have already damned ourselves. If you believe this then find a bush to hide under and wait for the sweet release of death. But the rest of us plan on making a go of it. In the real world we can’t build EV’s fast enough for demand. And when we do get to 100% EV’s in the near future we’re still stuck with Lithium batteries which are resource intensive. It takes a lot of energy to build an EV. To break even with Co2 emissions against a purely gasoline car you have to drive an EV anywhere from 13,000 miles to 75,000. This is something the elite hand-gluing scientists could be working on in their spare time. They could volunteer their time at a university that is working on battery technology. We’re in the middle of a chip shortage and a lot of the chips come from Taiwan. There’s a significant chance China will invade Taiwan in the near future. We’re a couple of years away from chip independence. It wasn’t long ago that Tesla was the only game in town and now every major car manufacturer is devoting billions and billions of dollars to a complete conversion to EV’s. ---
**Author:** ![Ulfreida](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ulfreida/32/8014_2.png) [@Ulfreida](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ulfreida)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2022, 12:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gluing-your-self-down-for-protest/973598/50 "2022-10-24T00:28:41Z")
I’m typing this from under a bush in an undisclosed location. I am not unaware of the geopolitical realities you speak of. I will probably live long enough to see for myself if you are right, and we’re going to pull out of this. In which case, you will see me bowing my apologies from between the branches. ---
**Author:** ![Kropotkin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kropotkin/32/18045_2.png) [@Kropotkin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kropotkin)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2022, 1:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gluing-your-self-down-for-protest/973598/51 "2022-10-24T01:29:36Z")
True, developed as part of a mass movement over many years that trained organizers, designed campaigns, enlisted support, and tried many tactics before working out ones that would work best. They also had the “aid” of more militant movements that used different tactics that made the non-violent protestors seem easier to deal with. The point is, good tactics don’t come out of thin air but from practice, theory, mistakes, and repetition. We shouldn’t expect people to “get it right” at first, and may wonder just who gets to decide what “getting it right” looks like. Andreas Malm’s How to Blow Up a Pipeline may be of interest to those who complain about glue-ins and soup-ins if they really want to have a melt down! Anyone remember The Monkeywrench Gang? ---
**Author:** ![blondebear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/blondebear/32/1022_2.png) [@blondebear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/blondebear)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2022, 1:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gluing-your-self-down-for-protest/973598/52 "2022-10-24T01:36:41Z")
> [@Kropotkin](#): > > Anyone remember The Monkeywrench Gang? Right on! Hayduke Lives! 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Kropotkin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kropotkin/32/18045_2.png) [@Kropotkin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kropotkin)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2022, 1:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gluing-your-self-down-for-protest/973598/53 "2022-10-24T01:40:44Z")
IIRC Edward Abbey commented that he wouldn’t blow up a dam but he might hold the flashlight. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2022, 3:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gluing-your-self-down-for-protest/973598/54 "2022-10-24T03:10:56Z")
> [@Ulfreida](#): > > I’m typing this from under a bush in an undisclosed location. I am not unaware of the geopolitical realities you speak of. I will probably live long enough to see for myself if you are right, and we’re going to pull out of this. In which case, you will see me bowing my apologies from between the branches. I’m sorry for the snark. But I don’t get the feeling that you see the massive investment in EV technology and what has transpired in the last 10 years. think about what has happened. Musk took a bunch of tiny batteries and connected them together to form a battery pack useful enough for modern travel. He then went on to create a serious manufacturing process for the batteries and the cars that followed. he then built a nationwide charging system. The closest thing in history to this would be Edison and the light bulb. he didn’t just perfect a long life bulb he built an electrical grid that didn’t exist. What has transpired since 2012 is nothing short of an industrial miracle. ---
**Author:** ![jadielyn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jadielyn/32/8808_2.png) [@jadielyn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jadielyn)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2022, 5:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gluing-your-self-down-for-protest/973598/55 "2022-10-24T05:11:02Z")
Weirdly, my first thought on hearing this was fire safety hazard. While unlikely that an unrelated fire would break out around the same time as the glued-in protesting, if it did happen either the protesters would leave some skin behind or become martyr to the cause - which would certainly draw support/sympathy in addition to the derision of the attempt but one suspects that’s a higher level of devotion to the movement than these protesters possessed. Edit: Of course if this had been in America and they survived a coincidental fire, their next step would’ve undoubtedly been to sue the company for allowing them to be put into such hazard at all. XD ---
**Author:** ![Ulfreida](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ulfreida/32/8014_2.png) [@Ulfreida](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ulfreida)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2022, 10:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gluing-your-self-down-for-protest/973598/56 "2022-10-24T10:25:43Z")
It isn’t enough to make EVs possible. They must also be heavily supported not just by private investors but also by governments and by consumers. Governments must be forward-thinking enough to do so, which in the West is going to be liberal democracies which have successfully muted the opposition, who are ferocious in the support of whatever is retrograde. How’s that going? Our own democracy hangs by a thread and we aren’t the only ones. Again, there is enormous pushback from consumers who love their planet-poisoning cars and trucks, for whom internal combustion engines are their very souls. There are millions and millions of these people. The above are two reasons why I remain a pessimist. ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2022, 6:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gluing-your-self-down-for-protest/973598/57 "2022-10-24T18:19:53Z")
Learning from this thread [Stock 2022 Hyundai Elantra had registration pulled by officer over noise - In My Humble Opinion (IMHO) - Straight Dope Message Board](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stock-2022-hyundai-elantra-had-registration-pulled-by-officer-over-noise/973355) that not only do some people love noisy cars, they love them so much that car manufacturers create special “even noisier” modes for enthusiasts, i see a lot of pushback against electric vehicles. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2022, 11:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gluing-your-self-down-for-protest/973598/58 "2022-10-24T23:41:38Z")
> [@puzzlegal](#): > > i see a lot of pushback against electric vehicles. I see a backlog of EV’s because they can’t make them fast enough. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2022, 12:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gluing-your-self-down-for-protest/973598/59 "2022-10-25T00:50:36Z")
> [@Ulfreida](#): > > It isn’t enough to make EVs possible. They must also be heavily supported not just by private investors but also by governments and by consumers They ARE heavily supported by private investors and by governments. What car company do you think isn’t driving hard to the hoop to develope a complete line of EV’s. There is nothing this passive aggressive behavior will gain in the way of public support. It will most likely drive people away from EV’s who would otherwise embrace them. ---
**Author:** ![Ulfreida](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ulfreida/32/8014_2.png) [@Ulfreida](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ulfreida)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2022, 10:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gluing-your-self-down-for-protest/973598/60 "2022-10-25T10:11:30Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > They ARE heavily supported by private investors and by governments. What car company do you think isn’t driving hard to the hoop to develope a complete line of EV’s. There is nothing this passive aggressive behavior will gain in the way of public support. It will most likely drive people away from EV’s who would otherwise embrace them. Are you referring to me? Passive-aggressive? I think you are misusing this concept. Mayo Clinic definition: "Passive-aggressive behavior is **a pattern of indirectly expressing negative feelings instead of openly addressing them**". I believe I am pretty damn direct about my negative feelings, thank you. Also, where do you see me even behaving, much less influencing? I’m blathering on the internet. No one cares what I think, obviously, otherwise the world would be enormously different than what it is. We’d all be at home weaving our hempen socks and growing beans, if I were queen. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gluing-your-self-down-for-protest/973598.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gluing-your-self-down-for-protest/973598.md?page=4)