# GM/L.A. piece **URL:** \ **Category:** Cecil's Columns/Staff Reports\ **Created:** [July 23, 2005, 1:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gm-l-a-piece/313739 "2005-07-23T01:15:26Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 5\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Crandolph](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/7cd45c/32.png) [@Crandolph](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crandolph)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2005, 1:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gm-l-a-piece/313739/1 "2005-07-23T01:15:26Z")
The [1986 Cecil piece](http://www.straightdope.com/classics/a2_335.html) on GM and streetcars could’ve at least mentioned that GM, Firestone, and Standard Oil of California bought the trolley lines in over 100 American cities under the guise of a holding company called National City Lines. One wonders why these particular businesses would go to that trouble to invest in an industry Cecil suggested was on its way out… The US government wondered too, and in 1949 the partners were convicted of criminal conspiracy in U.S. federal district court and fined the comparativey small sum of $5,000. Two other anti-trust cases involving GM & the trolley lines were settled out of court. It seems to me that this all merited some mention in the answer to the question at the very least, if not actually leading Cecil to a much different conclusion. It would also be interesting to compare the 13 MPH avg speed of the streetcars to some of the “speeds” attained today in rush hour traffic by the combination of car-per-person culture and its attendant sprawl. ---
**Author:** ![jasg](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f0a364/32.png) [@jasg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jasg)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2005, 1:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gm-l-a-piece/313739/2 "2005-07-23T01:53:32Z")
I haven’t checked all of the links in this [site](http://www.1134.org/stan/ul/GM-et-al.html) but it agrees with Cecil. ---
**Author:** ![Crandolph](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/7cd45c/32.png) [@Crandolph](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crandolph)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2005, 6:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gm-l-a-piece/313739/3 "2005-07-23T18:56:47Z")
> [@jasg](#): > > I haven’t checked all of the links in this [site](http://www.1134.org/stan/ul/GM-et-al.html) but it agrees with Cecil. It should agree with Cecil; it cites him as a source. Anyone have more input on the court cases? ---
**Author:** ![samclem](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a9a28c/32.png) [@samclem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/samclem)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2005, 3:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gm-l-a-piece/313739/4 "2005-07-25T03:48:54Z")
> [@Crandolph](#): > > The [1986 Cecil piece](http://www.straightdope.com/classics/a2_335.html) on GM and streetcars could’ve at least mentioned that GM, Firestone, and Standard Oil of California bought the trolley lines in over 100 American cities under the guise of a holding company called National City Lines. > > One wonders why these particular businesses would go to that trouble to invest in an industry Cecil suggested was on its way out… > > The US government wondered too, and in 1949 the partners were convicted of criminal conspiracy in U.S. federal district court and fined the comparativey small sum of $5,000. Two other anti-trust cases involving GM & the trolley lines were settled out of court. You left out your cites. ---
**Author:** ![Crandolph](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/7cd45c/32.png) [@Crandolph](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crandolph)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2005, 6:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gm-l-a-piece/313739/5 "2005-07-25T18:25:23Z")
A lot of links to basic materials on the contraversy live on the [Wikipedia article](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_Motors_streetcar_conspiracy), although I read about it in the book [The Dark Ages: Life in the United States 1945-1960](http://www.bookcounter.com/big/0-89608-128-1). The first sentence of “The Case Against the Conspiracy” is directly contradicted by the last sentence in “The Case for the Conspiracy.” So we need to get the factual basis of the 1949 decision straightened out first. I’d also be interested in knowing what the other 2 cases settled out of court involved. One does have to wonder what a tire manufacter, bus manufacturer and oil company were doing investing in electric trolleys together. I’m wondering what the non-conspiratorial rationale for that is. I mean, there might be, but what is it…?