# GMC Acadia designer/engineer roast in hell! **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [November 25, 2015, 7:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gmc-acadia-designer-engineer-roast-in-hell/738571 "2015-11-25T19:20:17Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![russian\_heel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f05b48/32.png) [@russian\_heel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/russian_heel)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2015, 8:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gmc-acadia-designer-engineer-roast-in-hell/738571/21 "2015-11-26T08:22:32Z")
Interesting. 2015 Acadia was highly rated in Consumer Reports, if that makes you feel better. I bought an Explorer instead, with one overheating issue and a front bumper that kept popping out, btw. You want to have fun? Try getting to the spare tire on a F-150 at 8pm at night on a limited access highway in Maryland with 18 wheelers buzzing by your ass at 80 mph. The crank that lowers the tire is 2 feet in front of the back bumper; the only way to access it is to insert the end of three interconnected rods into a 2’ long tube that requires telepathy to locate. Then after finding the opening to the tube, and properly aiming the rod, you keep cranking, and the tire comes down. ---
**Author:** ![Bill\_Door](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/50afbb/32.png) [@Bill\_Door](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bill_Door)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2015, 1:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gmc-acadia-designer-engineer-roast-in-hell/738571/22 "2015-11-26T13:42:41Z")
> [@jz78817](#): > > As an automotive engineer, I invite you to tell me what you do for a living so I can tell you how much you suck at it. > > Here’s a hint- the styling/design takes priority because people won’t buy a car if they don’t like how it looks. Engineering has to work within the constraints of the approved design, so oftentimes an inconvenient service task is the difference between being able to manufacture the car and not being able to. > > In short, if you can come up with a better way to do it, then do so. Otherwise STFU. It ain’t 'cos engineers are stupid or incompetent. You don’t have to be a chicken to know when an egg is rotton. ---
**Author:** ![wolfpup](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolfpup/32/10618_2.png) [@wolfpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfpup)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2015, 1:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gmc-acadia-designer-engineer-roast-in-hell/738571/23 "2015-11-26T13:54:25Z")
> [@PlainJain](#): > > But if it’s just hodgepodged together it really isn’t “engineered” well, is it? > 😉 Exactly right. It may not be fair to blame one specific engineer or even his whole department if it’s not in their control, but bad design is bad design, and someone at some organizational level is responsible. And the automotive industry seems to specialize in it, in part because the multipliers of scale make every nickel and dime a critical part of the cost equation. > [@yellowjacketcoder](#): > > Um, they’re a business. No shit their priorities are skewed towards profit. So your theory is that all products made by commercial enterprises are crap? And that well-designed quality products can only be made by badly run companies or communists? 😉 > [@russian\_heel](#): > > You want to have fun? Try getting to the spare tire on a F-150 at 8pm at night on a limited access highway in Maryland with 18 wheelers buzzing by your ass at 80 mph. > > The crank that lowers the tire is 2 feet in front of the back bumper; the only way to access it is to insert the end of three interconnected rods into a 2’ long tube that requires telepathy to locate. > > Then after finding the opening to the tube, and properly aiming the rod, you keep cranking, and the tire comes down. It gets better. I don’t know about the F-150 specifically, but on some vehicles with that type of spare tire assembly, you keep cranking and the tire does _ **not** _ come down. In fact, you keep cranking and absolutely nothing happens, because after a few years of driving in rain and winter slush the entire spare tire assembly has been rusted into one monolithic mass of inoperative useless junk. Another triumph of automotive engineering! ---
**Author:** ![kiz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/7feea3/32.png) [@kiz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kiz)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2015, 1:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gmc-acadia-designer-engineer-roast-in-hell/738571/24 "2015-11-26T13:58:31Z")
Overall I think it’s more of a design issue than an engineering one. When my old Jeep was rear ended a couple of years ago it was in the shop for almost a month because the entire panel where the driver’s side taillight was had to be replaces as well as whatever was underneath it. It wasn’t a simple “order off Amazon and DIY” process from what I understood. The panel itself had to be reshaped to fit snugly against the adjoining panels. Whatever happened underneath that had to be replaced. The shop had to send out for the light and the light was shipped broken twice. Our local Jeep parts dealer didn’t have anything in stock because of the year/model – they had to send out for everything. Engineering is how the design fits together. The design itself? That’s the issue. A taillight which wraps around may look cooler and sleek but it’s harder to replace the bulb because of thaat wrap around. Whereas my husband only has to pop the cover of his '90-something Avalon taillight, unplug the bulb, and plug in a new one. ---
**Author:** ![74westy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/74westy/32/3950_2.png) [@74westy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/74westy)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2015, 2:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gmc-acadia-designer-engineer-roast-in-hell/738571/25 "2015-11-26T14:41:54Z")
> [@scabpicker](#): > > How about a fucking access door or panel in the wheel well to change the headlight? Hinge the lens at the front, or goddamn something. Anything would be fucking better than just shitting your pants and pretending it’s an insurmountable problem that can only be solved by disassembling the bodywork. That might cost $1 per car times 1,000,000 cars = $1,000,000. Too expensive. Won’t get past management. Back to the drawing board. ---
**Author:** ![2gigch1](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/2gigch1/32/3313_2.png) [@2gigch1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/2gigch1)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2015, 3:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gmc-acadia-designer-engineer-roast-in-hell/738571/26 "2015-11-26T15:24:41Z")
These days almost every vehicle has a fan message board on the internet. If I were to purchase another vehicle I would likely study these message boards before I purchased the car in question. For example, I have a 2004 Ford F350 6.0 diesel. Anyone aware of these trucks know of their terrible reputation, something I wasn’t aware of when I purchased it. However, after some trouble, I got to studying the message boards and was able to make a few hundred dollars worth of modifications _that I installed myself_ which have rendered the truck remarkably reliable. No vehicle out there is going to be perfect. I do think with today’s internet the era of the do it yourself mechanic has been resurrected and there is a lot I will attempt now, between boards and YouTube instruction videos. ---
**Author:** ![Tully\_Mars](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7ab992/32.png) [@Tully\_Mars](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tully_Mars)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2015, 3:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gmc-acadia-designer-engineer-roast-in-hell/738571/27 "2015-11-26T15:48:39Z")
> [@Folacin](#): > > I > > As an IT guy, I shudder to mention ‘agile design’, but this seems like a good place for it. The only good place for ‘agile design’ is in a swirling toilet bowl. It’s the exact example of the ‘flavor of the month’ that is forced upon good engineers that cause the problems that the OP is complaining about. ---
**Author:** ![yellowjacketcoder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/4bbf92/32.png) [@yellowjacketcoder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yellowjacketcoder)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2015, 6:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gmc-acadia-designer-engineer-roast-in-hell/738571/28 "2015-11-26T18:11:55Z")
> [@wolfpup](#): > > So your theory is that all products made by commercial enterprises are crap? And that well-designed quality products can only be made by badly run companies or communists? 😉 Obviously not. If ease of access to the headlight increased profitablity, it would be easy to get to. It doesn’t increase profitability, so no shits are given. ---
**Author:** ![Sparky812](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/eb9ed0/32.png) [@Sparky812](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sparky812)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2015, 6:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gmc-acadia-designer-engineer-roast-in-hell/738571/29 "2015-11-26T18:12:27Z")
> [@jz78817](#): > > As an automotive engineer, I invite you to tell me what you do for a living so I can tell you how much you suck at it. Why, I don’t design a consumer product for mass production to be used on thousands (if not millions) of cars. You’re not engineering the space shuttle, it’s a fucking headlight assembly with a replaceable bulb. Dimwit. They’ve been putting them on vehicles for over 100 years yet every eginerd thinks they should make it more complicated than it needs to be. > [@jz78817](#): > > Here’s a hint- the styling/design takes priority because people won’t buy a car if they don’t like how it looks. Engineering has to work within the constraints of the approved design, so oftentimes an inconvenient service task is the difference between being able to manufacture the car and not being able to… …yeah right…\ …bullshit…\… also replace the word “design” with “budget” > [@jz78817](#): > > In short, if you can come up with a better way to do it, then do so. Otherwise STFU. It ain’t 'cos engineers are stupid or incompetent. Exactly, it’s because some engineers are stubborn and arrogant. We call it the engineering equation: X = KY (where K is anything it takes to make X = Y) There’s no better description of the reluctance of engineers to realize the flaws or futility of their designs. They will resist all suggestions to abandon them or to go back to the drawing board to make the necessary alterations. Instead, they plow forward re-engineering all obstacles to see their original design succeed. Of course, there’s also the reference to personal lubricant for those that need a mental picture 😃 BTW, only an engineer would be so near-sighted as to suggest that if we don’t like something, come up with a better way. You don’t re-invent the wheel, you look at other makes, models, years, designs, etc… then find the one that works the best then adapt it for you usage. ---
**Author:** ![Daylate](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/9dc877/32.png) [@Daylate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Daylate)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2015, 6:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gmc-acadia-designer-engineer-roast-in-hell/738571/30 "2015-11-26T18:16:00Z")
> [@](#): > > You want to have fun? Try getting to the spare tire on a F-150 at 8pm at night on a limited access highway in Maryland with 18 wheelers buzzing by your ass at 80 mph. > > The crank that lowers the tire is 2 feet in front of the back bumper; the only way to access it is to insert the end of three interconnected rods into a 2’ long tube that requires telepathy to locate. > > Then after finding the opening to the tube, and properly aiming the rod, you keep cranking, and the tire comes down. Things like this I have absolutely no problem with. I just call my roadside service (USAA in my case, but AAA is also good) and they come right out and take care of the problem. Piece of cake. ---
**Author:** ![Daylate](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/9dc877/32.png) [@Daylate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Daylate)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2015, 6:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gmc-acadia-designer-engineer-roast-in-hell/738571/31 "2015-11-26T18:20:27Z")
Another thing. In the auto shop where I work, we are all very grateful for the modern car designer. Their delicate touch on the design of a car results in our making lots of money. ---
**Author:** ![scabpicker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/scabpicker/32/8268_2.png) [@scabpicker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/scabpicker)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2015, 7:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gmc-acadia-designer-engineer-roast-in-hell/738571/32 "2015-11-26T19:06:52Z")
> [@74westy](#): > > That might cost $1 per car times 1,000,000 cars = $1,000,000. Too expensive. Won’t get past management. Back to the drawing board. True enough, but I pop the hoods on cars before I buy them, and remove the engine cover if it has one. I do this to specifically to estimate what maintenance might be like on that car when the free maintenance runs out. If it looks like it might be a nightmare, I look for other cars to buy. It doesn’t always work perfectly. The Mini had design problems concealed within the head. I couldn’t see in there, but there’s not really an excuse for the problem other than the dollar per unit figure that you mention. But BMW and Peugeot both lost a future customer through that penny pinching, despite a good headlight design. ---
**Author:** ![wolfpup](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolfpup/32/10618_2.png) [@wolfpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfpup)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2015, 7:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gmc-acadia-designer-engineer-roast-in-hell/738571/33 "2015-11-26T19:52:34Z")
> [@yellowjacketcoder](#): > > Obviously not. If ease of access to the headlight increased profitablity, it would be easy to get to. It doesn’t increase profitability, so no shits are given. Now that I agree with. The point that I was making, though, is that there are companies who make quality a priority as a strategic business decision, and it can be a sound business practice associated with profitability if it leads to a reputation for quality. But such companies tend to be few and far between, and they tend to be companies dominated by engineers and engineering values rather than bean-counters and financial tricksters. As I say, I basically agree with you. Those precious extra nickels and times of incremental production cost are most often going to spent on styling elements and visible frills, not on ease of service and, far too often, not on reliability, either. ---
**Author:** ![Fir\_na\_tine](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/a587f6/32.png) [@Fir\_na\_tine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fir_na_tine)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2015, 11:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gmc-acadia-designer-engineer-roast-in-hell/738571/34 "2015-11-26T23:37:55Z")
> [@jz78817](#): > > As an automotive engineer, I invite you to tell me what you do for a living so I can tell you how much you suck at it. > > Here’s a hint- the styling/design takes priority because people won’t buy a car if they don’t like how it looks. Engineering has to work within the constraints of the approved design, so oftentimes an inconvenient service task is the difference between being able to manufacture the car and not being able to. > > In short, if you can come up with a better way to do it, then do so. Otherwise STFU. It ain’t 'cos engineers are stupid or incompetent. I humbly beg your pardon for this gross insult to your chosen profession. Let’s agree that the decision maker of record shall henceforth be known as “The big Flaming Asshole” rather than by any degreed title. ---
**Author:** ![wolfpup](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolfpup/32/10618_2.png) [@wolfpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfpup)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2015, 11:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gmc-acadia-designer-engineer-roast-in-hell/738571/35 "2015-11-26T23:56:14Z")
> [@Daylate](#): > > Things like this I have absolutely no problem with. I just call my roadside service (USAA in my case, but AAA is also good) and they come right out and take care of the problem. Piece of cake. Not necessarily. In the situation that I described, neither AAA, nor any man, superman, or God himself could separate the spare from the chassis to which it has rust-welded itself after a few years, at least, not without taking it into a shop to be attacked by some seriously heavy-duty tools. Like I said, that particular spare tire mount design is another triumph of automotive engineering! So hopefully the roadside service vehicle is a tow truck because in that situation you might just need one. > [@Daylate](#): > > Another thing. In the auto shop where I work, we are all very grateful for the modern car designer. Their delicate touch on the design of a car results in our making lots of money. Yes, I can see that. Instead of a customer popping in his own replacement headlight bulb in a few seconds, he has to take it to your shop where you take apart the car’s entire front end, replace the bulb, reassemble the front end again, and charge the customer the cost of a bulb plus $500 labor. I can see why you respect and admire the modern automotive engineer who makes this necessary! 😃 ---
**Author:** ![the\_diego](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7bcc69/32.png) [@the\_diego](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/the_diego)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2015, 3:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gmc-acadia-designer-engineer-roast-in-hell/738571/36 "2015-11-27T03:37:32Z")
GM, Toyota, and also some German brands I watched in their auto shows. If things are that bad, maybe it’s really time to phase out cars. ---
**Author:** ![usedtobe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ec9cab/32.png) [@usedtobe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/usedtobe)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2015, 10:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gmc-acadia-designer-engineer-roast-in-hell/738571/37 "2015-11-27T22:23:20Z")
I just spent an exhausting 30 seconds Google Image searching on ‘GMC Acadia’ and ‘GMC Acadia engine’. If anybody so much as glances under the hood, they see the engine compartment is covered. The headlights sit well behind the bumper, behind the now-popular elongated headlight lens (which will haze over due to UV exposure, so buy a spare set while they are still in production). You buy a vehicle like this, you assume the consequences. I don’t want to hear how to service the front suspension. ---
**Author:** ![enipla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/54ee81/32.png) [@enipla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/enipla)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2015, 11:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gmc-acadia-designer-engineer-roast-in-hell/738571/38 "2015-11-27T23:53:45Z")
> [@usedtobe](#): > > I don’t want to hear how to service the front suspension. Step I.1.a - Remove rear tail light assembly. My Wife has an 02 Grand Jeep. It needed a new gas filler pipe vent hose. Took it to our local shop. To do this the rear bumper had to be removed. Ok. I know stuff is crammed in there. But, they couldn’t do it. Had to be done buy a Jeep dealership. I suspect it’s because the bumper is a piece of safety equipment so they can’t touch it. (but what about body shops??). Or maybe, it’s such a colossal pain in the ass, they didn’t want to touch it. aside… Bought a small TV for a wall mount. Just a little job for the kitchen. Step one was (I kid you not) - Follow these instructions. ---
**Author:** ![crypto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/b3f665/32.png) [@crypto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crypto)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2015, 12:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gmc-acadia-designer-engineer-roast-in-hell/738571/39 "2015-11-28T00:58:49Z")
> [@jz78817](#): > > As an automotive engineer, I invite you to tell me what you do for a living so I can tell you how much you suck at it. > > Here’s a hint- the styling/design takes priority because people won’t buy a car if they don’t like how it looks. Engineering has to work within the constraints of the approved design, so oftentimes an inconvenient service task is the difference between being able to manufacture the car and not being able to. > > In short, if you can come up with a better way to do it, then do so. Otherwise STFU. It ain’t 'cos engineers are stupid or incompetent. Dude. It’s a _light bulb_. I don’t know if you are joking, but certain things have had basic, functional, maintainable designs for decades… In the case of vehicle lights, what’s it been, a century? Your “hint” (design/styling) is the issue here? Funny, I don’t remember any ugly, non-aerodynamic bulb screws popping out of my hood on ANY vehicle I have owned. I can tell you this… If I had only two choices: 1) a car with an unsightly access panel cut into my hood to get to the bulb, or 2) the exact same car sans panel which required a trip to a shop for a bulb change, I would buy the one with the panel. No way should changing a bulb require a trip to the dealership. And beyond that, why would you want to have to remove the bumper to get to the damn bulb? No car has to be THAT slick to drive sales. If I were in the market for an SUV, I would be thanking my lucky stars that I saw this thread. If someone couldn’t see that basic design flaw and raise their hand at a meeting, I question the design team. STFU? :dubious: I think I can see why shitty designs get through to production… SILENCE! I am not an automotive engineer, but I have changed my share of bulbs in my car-owning life, and THAT is a terrible design. To be honest, I would never have even thought that accessing a light bulb in my car would be an issue until just now. I have never had a problem getting to one. ---
**Author:** ![excavating\_for\_a\_mind](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e8c25b/32.png) [@excavating\_for\_a\_mind](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/excavating_for_a_mind)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2015, 1:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gmc-acadia-designer-engineer-roast-in-hell/738571/40 "2015-11-28T01:37:18Z")
I’ve got a 1999 Chrysler 300M. To replace the battery, you need to remove the right front tire. That’s right, you need a jack, jack stands, and lug wrench to remove the tire. Then you have to remove an access panel in the fender well, which takes a screwdriver to remove some screws and a pair of pliers to pull the push-rivets. Then one size socket wrench to remove the battery hold-down, and another size to remove the battery terminal screws. Seven tools to replace the battery, which will last for 3-4 years. The tail light bulbs? No tools needed, they whole assembly are held in by fasteners you can turn by hand. This car has it’s original tail light bulbs. So, to replace a maintenance item that is only going to last 3 or 4 years, you need 7 tools (that includes a jack and a lug wrench), but to replace bulbs that can conceivably last 20 years or more, all you need is opposable thumbs. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gmc-acadia-designer-engineer-roast-in-hell/738571.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gmc-acadia-designer-engineer-roast-in-hell/738571.md?page=3)