# GMC Acadia designer/engineer roast in hell! **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [November 25, 2015, 7:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gmc-acadia-designer-engineer-roast-in-hell/738571 "2015-11-25T19:20:17Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![botsgotme](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/91b2a8/32.png) [@botsgotme](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/botsgotme)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2015, 2:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gmc-acadia-designer-engineer-roast-in-hell/738571/61 "2015-12-01T14:09:05Z")
Part of the problem is designer’s aversion to exposed screw heads-they have to conceal them everywhere. that is why pulling out the dashboard ( fix instrument panel or radio) is such a big job. I like the steam punk look-I find exposed rivets and bolt heads attractive-why hasn’t “steam punk” influenced auto designers?🙂 ---
**Author:** ![jz78817](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jz78817/32/1028_2.png) [@jz78817](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jz78817)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2015, 2:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gmc-acadia-designer-engineer-roast-in-hell/738571/62 "2015-12-01T14:20:03Z")
> [@botsgotme](#): > > Part of the problem is designer’s aversion to exposed screw heads-they have to conceal them everywhere. that is why pulling out the dashboard ( fix instrument panel or radio) is such a big job. I like the steam punk look-I find exposed rivets and bolt heads attractive-why hasn’t “steam punk” influenced auto designers?🙂 _Consumer Reports_ used to count exposed screws as a negative mark against a car. ---
**Author:** ![Sparky812](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/eb9ed0/32.png) [@Sparky812](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sparky812)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2015, 3:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gmc-acadia-designer-engineer-roast-in-hell/738571/63 "2015-12-01T15:24:58Z")
> [@jz78817](#): > > look, I’ve been doing this kind of work for over 15 years. When you get into an inconvenient service item like the Acadia’s headlamp, then the simplest explanation is that _that was the “least bad” option for all involved parties."_ Looking at underhood photos of the Acadia, the radiator core support wraps all the way around from the front of the car halfway back to the doors. The core support is a major structural part, and the headlamps mount to it. Conveniently, the design studio (the ones who dictate how the car will look) wanted the headlamp lenses to sit right where the core support joins the upper structural beams. That’s an important part of the crumple zone, and has huge implications in crash safety. You aren’t going to just cut access holes in the structure of the car. > > if that makes me a “clueless asshole,” so be it. Have a nice day. Wrong, you’re a clueless asshole because you came into the Pit thread to shit on the OP and tell him to STFU, when… get this …you actually agree with him! > [@jz78817](#): > > _Consumer Reports_ used to count exposed screws as a negative mark against a car. Cite? I call Bullshit though … in fact… Consumer Reports would have favored easily accessible headlights (maybe with a recessed stainless steel screw) than a method that (deliberately) rips the consumer off. ---
**Author:** ![wolfpup](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolfpup/32/10618_2.png) [@wolfpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfpup)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2015, 6:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gmc-acadia-designer-engineer-roast-in-hell/738571/64 "2015-12-01T18:37:49Z")
> [@BubbaDog](#): > > That’s good information to know. When in the future the “least bad option” for me to enter the car is through the window I’ll be comforted by the fact that that guys like you have used your many years of experience to design something for all involved parties. > What’s next, a windshield wiper that can only be accessed via the oil pan? Do not insult the automotive engineer. You’ve seen what they can do already – imagine what they would do if they started actively hating consumers! You couldn’t have windshield wiper access via the oil pan because that’s where the steering wheel would be. ---
**Author:** ![GargoyleWB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gargoylewb/32/199_2.png) [@GargoyleWB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GargoyleWB)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2015, 7:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gmc-acadia-designer-engineer-roast-in-hell/738571/65 "2015-12-01T19:41:13Z")
My Saab headlight lamp was easily accessible…an engineering triumph one might think. Except for the multiple brittle plastic custom-snowflake clips to hold the things. _snap_ _ping_ _rattle rattle_. I secured my new lamp with an Office Depot binder clip which worked great at 1/100 the price of replacement “designs”. Thanks engineers! ---
**Author:** ![BubbaDog](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bubbadog/32/333_2.png) [@BubbaDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BubbaDog)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2015, 7:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gmc-acadia-designer-engineer-roast-in-hell/738571/66 "2015-12-01T19:47:21Z")
> [@wolfpup](#): > > Do not insult the automotive engineer. You’ve seen what they can do already – imagine what they would do if they started actively hating consumers! You couldn’t have windshield wiper access via the oil pan because that’s where the steering wheel would be. Actually, I have a lot of respect for automotive engineering. Those guys have done some amazing things. My beef with him was not that he sucked at engineering but that he defended a really bad concept. Just because somebody came up with a brilliant plan on how to move the mountain doesn’t mean it wasn’t a stupid idea to move it. ---
**Author:** ![control-z](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/eada6e/32.png) [@control-z](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/control-z)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2015, 9:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gmc-acadia-designer-engineer-roast-in-hell/738571/67 "2015-12-01T21:37:02Z")
I too would like to commend auto designers (in The Pit no less!) We have faster, more reliable, more efficient, safer cars than ever before. But they sure are very difficult to work on in some cases. There is nothing wrong with exposed screws, use them. Headlights, dashboard, door panels, make everyone’s life much easier. Damn the reviewers, let the customers vote with their wallets. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2015, 10:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gmc-acadia-designer-engineer-roast-in-hell/738571/68 "2015-12-01T22:42:33Z")
> [@jz78817](#): > > Here’s a hint- the styling/design takes priority because people won’t buy a car if they don’t like how it looks. Engineering has to work within the constraints of the approved design, so oftentimes an inconvenient service task is the difference between being able to manufacture the car and not being able to. You cannot possibly be claiming that “engineering compromises” were required to build something that looks like [this](http://images.thecarconnection.com/med/2016-gmc-acadia-fwd-4-door-slt-w-slt-1-angular-front-exterior-view_100514061_m.jpg). I’m afraid to imagine what it might have looked like if the designers hadn’t gotten their way. I mean, it’s not _ugly_, but if it was a human everyone would be talking about what a great personality it has. That said, modern automobiles are generally a marvel of engineering and I am constantly impressed by how reliable they are. ---
**Author:** ![Derleth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Derleth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Derleth)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2015, 12:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gmc-acadia-designer-engineer-roast-in-hell/738571/69 "2015-12-02T00:31:12Z")
> [@jz78817](#): > > I’ve been doing this kind of work for over 15 years. So you might not be responsible for the serpentine belt on the ninth generation Chevrolet Suburban. Not that I necessarily expect you to know what that is (the Suburban or the belt) because it utterly discredits your profession, but here’s a hint: If something is required for the basic operation of a vehicle, make it _less_ likely to fail at random, not _more_ likely. At least _attempt_ to get the MTBF up to, I dunno, five years, give or take. A month would have been better than we experienced, however, so that may well be beyond you. I look forwards to your self-justification, perhaps after you add unintended acceleration to yet another vehicle which is kinematically more stable on its roof. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2015, 12:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gmc-acadia-designer-engineer-roast-in-hell/738571/70 "2015-12-02T00:51:36Z")
You deserve whatever you got for buying a Suburban in the first place. ---
**Author:** ![Derleth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Derleth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Derleth)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2015, 4:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gmc-acadia-designer-engineer-roast-in-hell/738571/71 "2015-12-02T04:01:10Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > You deserve whatever you got for buying a Suburban in the first place. It was my family’s car so my parents bought it. They had three boys, a varying number of dogs, and we lived in a hilly back-country outside of town, so at least the thing went off-road in its existence. (Deliberately, in some cases, and very often when the engine _wasn’t_ on fire.) ---
**Author:** ![Mama\_Zappa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/71e660/32.png) [@Mama\_Zappa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mama_Zappa)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2015, 5:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gmc-acadia-designer-engineer-roast-in-hell/738571/72 "2015-12-08T17:03:43Z")
> [@Fir\_na\_tine](#): > > My son has an Acadia. Left headlight burned out. To replace headlight you must remove front tire, the wheelwell liner and the front bumper trim. Then and only then can you reach the bulb and replace it! We spent 2 hours trying to do this and ended up bringing it to an auto shop. Full hour of skilled trained labor on their part. > > Stupid assed engineering design! A friend of mine says this is deliberate - so you have to give the dealerships or auto shops business, instead of making a 5 dollar fix on your own. I had a Dodge Omni (quit laughing: it was an improvement over the Fiat my parents stuck me with), and its headlight needed replacing. I didn’t have to remove hte tire, but I did have to remove part of the front bumper. I now have a Honda CRV - and the headlights burn out multiple times a year and always have. I’ve never had a car that bad on headlights. I tried following the owner’s manual and the instructions didn’t work. You don’t have to remove tires, but it would be a lot easier if you were an octopus, as normal human hands with bones in 'em simply will not fit or undergo the contortions needed. I took it to the dealer for a bunch of maintenance this weekend - and asked them to show ME how to change it - because I’ve had it changed twice in the past year and both times it went out again within two weeks. They did - and even THEY had trouble with it. ---
**Author:** ![Mama\_Zappa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/71e660/32.png) [@Mama\_Zappa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mama_Zappa)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2015, 5:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gmc-acadia-designer-engineer-roast-in-hell/738571/73 "2015-12-08T17:12:22Z")
Oooh - and then there are the fuses. Located behind an easily-removed door around my right shin - you lay down on the car floor and can see the row of fuses - but again, unless you’re an octopus, you CANNOT REACH THEM. Fuse-pulling tools are useless - we wound up resorting to a pair of needlenose pliers (and the manual had them labeled wrong - we had to figure out the 9-volt plug’s fuse by trial and error). This is less of a complaint than the headlight, as honestly I’ve never had a car’s fuse burn out before this CRV, and it _can_ be done with the correct tool. Now, I do grant, newer cars are generally very user-friendly when it comes to driving, storage bins, seat comfort and so on. But stupid-ass design decisions like headlights (the OP’s one has me thinking my crappy Omni was a walk in the park by comparison) are, well, just stupid-ass. There is no excuse on this planet for something that bad on something that can reasonably be expected to be done every year or so. ---
**Author:** ![usedtobe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ec9cab/32.png) [@usedtobe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/usedtobe)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2015, 1:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gmc-acadia-designer-engineer-roast-in-hell/738571/74 "2015-12-09T01:20:08Z")
Does anyone, when looking for a new car (or light truck), actually look at the engine compartment, the trunk/bed and look for access to common fix-its? Ever look under the dash? Try to located the data port for the ‘Check Engine’ diagnoses? I wouldn’t go as far as to ask the dealer to put in on the lift and allow me to examine its undercarriage, but I am going to find the battery, light bulbs (maybe not the instrument panel lights, but the exterior ones - hell yes), spare tire, jack, lug wrench. If I can’t reach these, I am going to move on down the line. If none of my top 5 picks have user-friendly access, I am going to find another 'top 5 ---
**Author:** ![jz78817](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jz78817/32/1028_2.png) [@jz78817](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jz78817)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2015, 1:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gmc-acadia-designer-engineer-roast-in-hell/738571/75 "2015-12-09T01:36:43Z")
> [@usedtobe](#): > > Ever look under the dash? Try to located the data port for the ‘Check Engine’ diagnoses? the OBD-II regulations mandate where the diagnostic connector is located. It has to be on the driver’s side bottom edge of the instrument panel. if you can’t find it, you’re not looking very hard. ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2015, 2:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gmc-acadia-designer-engineer-roast-in-hell/738571/76 "2015-12-09T02:11:00Z")
> [@Sparky812](#): > > Cite? > > I call Bullshit though … in fact… Consumer Reports would have favored easily accessible headlights (maybe with a recessed stainless steel screw) than a method that (deliberately) rips the consumer off. To be fair he was responding to a reference to dashboard disassembly, and CR did use to frown upon exposed mounting hardware _in the passenger compartment._ I’m pretty sure however they did not mind them under the hood or under the carpeting, or beneath removable cover panels. And were very much in favor of easily-accessible user-serviceable engine compartments and individual components. The people at the design studio and accounting should be required to own, operate and self-service the cars they greenlight just so they can know what it’s like. I mean the engineer will come up with a way to provide what they want if s/he has to, what is needed is to make the design “artiste” and the beancounters stop wanting it. ---
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2015, 2:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gmc-acadia-designer-engineer-roast-in-hell/738571/77 "2015-12-09T02:31:15Z")
> [@jz78817](#): > > look, I’ve been doing this kind of work for over 15 years. When you get into an inconvenient service item like the Acadia’s headlamp, then the simplest explanation is that _that was the “least bad” option for all involved parties"_ let me finish that sentence for you. > [@](#): > > ignoring the needs of the consumer that actually has to drive/service the car. ---
**Author:** ![usedtobe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ec9cab/32.png) [@usedtobe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/usedtobe)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2015, 3:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gmc-acadia-designer-engineer-roast-in-hell/738571/78 "2015-12-09T03:55:41Z")
> [@jz78817](#): > > the OBD-II regulations mandate where the diagnostic connector is located. It has to be on the driver’s side bottom edge of the instrument panel. if you can’t find it, you’re not looking very hard. I have heard of (and received a first-person report of) the OBD-II (thank you, I had forgotten the name) connector behind the ashtray. Most are below the dash on the left, but a few got creative. :smack: ---
**Author:** ![IDtenT\_Error](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@IDtenT\_Error](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IDtenT_Error)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2015, 5:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gmc-acadia-designer-engineer-roast-in-hell/738571/79 "2015-12-09T05:58:18Z")
> [@Mama\_Zappa](#): > > I had a Dodge Omni (quit laughing: it was an improvement over the Fiat my parents stuck me with), and its headlight needed replacing. I didn’t have to remove hte tire, but I did have to remove part of the front bumper. :dubious: What year? I had an '88 and 2 '89s (couldn’t find another used one after the second '89, since it was '06 when it died and they stopped making them in '90) and I replaced several headlights over the 18 years I drove those without once having to do anything but unscrew the plastic housing and swap the bulb. No bumper parts at all had to be removed. ---
**Author:** ![Mama\_Zappa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/71e660/32.png) [@Mama\_Zappa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mama_Zappa)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2015, 4:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gmc-acadia-designer-engineer-roast-in-hell/738571/80 "2015-12-10T16:59:54Z")
> [@IDtenT\_Error](#): > > :dubious: What year? I had an '88 and 2 '89s (couldn’t find another used one after the second '89, since it was '06 when it died and they stopped making them in '90) and I replaced several headlights over the 18 years I drove those without once having to do anything but unscrew the plastic housing and swap the bulb. No bumper parts at all had to be removed. 82 or perhaps 83, I bought it in the fall of 1982. It may not truly have been the bumper - I got rid of the car in 1985 so I don’t exactly remember - but it was a significant part of the front trim one way or the other. I do recall that it took a ratchet wrench to finally get things opened easily. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gmc-acadia-designer-engineer-roast-in-hell/738571.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gmc-acadia-designer-engineer-roast-in-hell/738571.md?page=5)