# GMC Acadia designer/engineer roast in hell! **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [November 25, 2015, 7:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gmc-acadia-designer-engineer-roast-in-hell/738571 "2015-11-25T19:20:17Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 12\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Nefario](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/59ef9b/32.png) [@Nefario](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nefario)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2015, 5:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gmc-acadia-designer-engineer-roast-in-hell/738571/81 "2015-12-10T17:54:19Z")
> [@jz78817](#): > > Here’s a hint- the styling/design takes priority because people won’t buy a car if they don’t like how it looks. Engineering has to work within the constraints of the approved design, so oftentimes an inconvenient service task is the difference between being able to manufacture the car and not being able to. Yep. I have considerable experience in consumer and office electronics and medical products. This IS exactly how MOST mass produced products are created. Industrial designers lead most of what consumers regard as “design”, that being the external appearance; service and cost of manufacture really don’t matter to the art boys (and girls). You haven’t lived until your new Lead Stylist with their six months of intern experience insists that you must move a parting line and increase mold cost from $10K to $50K “…or nobody will buy the product!!” :rolleyes: And that’s what you do. ---
**Author:** ![Philster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/13edae/32.png) [@Philster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Philster)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2015, 6:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gmc-acadia-designer-engineer-roast-in-hell/738571/82 "2015-12-10T18:00:08Z")
I have old cars in my collection. Some have sealed-beam headlights. Yes, they are easier to change, but they aren’t bright by any means. Also, they don’t integrate well into an aero front end. They limit styling, too. Some companies, such as BMW, make their cars so complex and make maintenance so ridiculously unattainable for the common man that they just said, "Fuck it. If a bulb goes out, we replace it as part of all-included maintenance.’’ \*\* But let’s put all this _'‘I want to fix this shit myself’_ nonsense into perspective:\*\* Auto mfgrs know people just don’t work on their cars anymore. It’s unprecedented. **“Wait!”,** you say, it’s because of the COMPLEXITY of the cars that people don’t work on them anymore. **NO**! A resounding NO. Grown, healthy, adult men… in their 20’s and 30’s… they buy a Ford Fusion or a BMW 3-series… they drive off with their temporary tags… and then… a week later, they schedule an appointment, or simply show up at the dealership, and they want the dealer or service department to SCREW ON THEIR NEW LICENSE PLATES. I have family with dealerships; I have friends who run dealership service desks. Adult men cannot change a flat; they cannot screw their license plates in; they can barely drive. FORGET IT. I wouldn’t worry about giving anyone access to a frigging bulb. It AIN’T worth the engineering and project management effort. People are now helpless. Healthy people are useless. I wouldn’t spend a frigging dime giving easy bulb access to chumps that can’t even hang a license plate on their cars. . ---
**Author:** ![jz78817](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jz78817/32/1028_2.png) [@jz78817](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jz78817)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2015, 6:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gmc-acadia-designer-engineer-roast-in-hell/738571/83 "2015-12-10T18:25:10Z")
> [@](#): > > Auto mfgrs know people just don’t work on their cars anymore. It’s unprecedented. “Wait!”, you say, it’s because of the COMPLEXITY of the cars that people don’t work on them anymore. > > NO! A resounding NO. Grown, healthy, adult men… in their 20’s and 30’s… they buy a Ford Fusion or a BMW 3-series… they drive off with their temporary tags… and then… a week later, they schedule an appointment, or simply show up at the dealership, and they want the dealer or service department to SCREW ON THEIR NEW LICENSE PLATES. also, cars typically _don’t_ need to be worked on much if at all anymore. Spark plugs last 100,000 miles, oil changes are at 7,500-10,000 miles, timing belts typically last 100,000 miles, etc. Old cars were thankfully easy to work on because you _had to._ Points needed regular adjustment/replacement, spark plugs lasted 15,000 miles, the choke on the carb wasn’t working right today, the valve cover gaskets would start leaking every 20,000 miles, the rear main seal has been dribbling oil ever since the car was new, etc. You likely needed a valve job at 60,000 miles, and if you made it to 100,000 on the original engine w/o a rebuild you’d throw a party. Old cars were pieces of _shit_ compared to what we have today. ---
**Author:** ![BubbaDog](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bubbadog/32/333_2.png) [@BubbaDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BubbaDog)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2015, 6:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gmc-acadia-designer-engineer-roast-in-hell/738571/84 "2015-12-10T18:31:53Z")
> [@Philster](#): > > I have old cars in my collection. Some have sealed-beam headlights. Yes, they are easier to change, but they aren’t bright by any means. Also, they don’t integrate well into an aero front end. They limit styling, too. > > Some companies, such as BMW, make their cars so complex and make maintenance so ridiculously unattainable for the common man that they just said, "Fuck it. If a bulb goes out, we replace it as part of all-included maintenance.‘’ > \*\* > But let’s put all this _'‘I want to fix this shit myself’_ nonsense into perspective:\*\* > > Auto mfgrs know people just don’t work on their cars anymore. It’s unprecedented. **“Wait!”,** you say, it’s because of the COMPLEXITY of the cars that people don’t work on them anymore. > > **NO**! A resounding NO. Grown, healthy, adult men… in their 20’s and 30’s… they buy a Ford Fusion or a BMW 3-series… they drive off with their temporary tags… and then… a week later, they schedule an appointment, or simply show up at the dealership, and they want the dealer or service department to SCREW ON THEIR NEW LICENSE PLATES. > > I have family with dealerships; I have friends who run dealership service desks. Adult men cannot change a flat; they cannot screw their license plates in; they can barely drive. > > FORGET IT. I wouldn’t worry about giving anyone access to a frigging bulb. It AIN’T worth the engineering and project management effort. > > People are now helpless. Healthy people are useless. I wouldn’t spend a frigging dime giving easy bulb access to chumps that can’t even hang a license plate on their cars. > > . Keep your fuckin dime. It doesn’t matter WHO is changing the bulb. If it takes two hours of labor to get the god damned thing changed then it’s still piss poor design. Light bulbs, like tires and windshield wipers are common wear-out features on a car. Yet changing tires or wipers doesn’t require removing body sections of the car. ---
**Author:** ![Philster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/13edae/32.png) [@Philster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Philster)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2015, 7:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gmc-acadia-designer-engineer-roast-in-hell/738571/85 "2015-12-10T19:28:26Z")
You’re assuming that practically being forced to take your car to the dealer – even under warranty – is a bad thing? It isn’t. How about an oil change and new interior cabin HEPA filter while your here? Cha ching. And, it’s not as laborious for people who do these things on lifts, with proper tools, and without hesitation. Even pulling bumpers and such is nothing while waiting for the oil to drain. Again, let’s concern ourselves with making it easy for Joe Helpless Public to change a bulb he won’t change himself anyway. /sarcasm ---
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2015, 8:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gmc-acadia-designer-engineer-roast-in-hell/738571/86 "2015-12-10T20:12:22Z")
> [@BubbaDog](#): > > Keep your fuckin dime. It doesn’t matter WHO is changing the bulb. If it takes two hours of labor to get the god damned thing changed then it’s still piss poor design. Light bulbs, like tires and windshield wipers are common wear-out features on a car. Yet changing tires or wipers doesn’t require removing body sections of the car. I concur. I can bitch and moan about the inaccessability of the cylinders to change spark plugs and I can at least buy the argument that 2010+ engineering sacrifices convenience that only that only few people need BUT if I cannot take a Saturday afternoon in my driveway and be able to change my wiper blades, headlights AND oil then that is simply bad design. ---
**Author:** ![BubbaDog](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bubbadog/32/333_2.png) [@BubbaDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BubbaDog)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2015, 8:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gmc-acadia-designer-engineer-roast-in-hell/738571/87 "2015-12-10T20:18:30Z")
> [@Philster](#): > > You’re assuming that practically being forced to take your car to the dealer – even under warranty – is a bad thing? > > It isn’t. How about an oil change and new interior cabin HEPA filter while your here? > > Cha ching. > > And, it’s not as laborious for people who do these things on lifts, with proper tools, and without hesitation. Even pulling bumpers and such is nothing while waiting for the oil to drain. > > Again, let’s concern ourselves with making it easy for Joe Helpless Public to change a bulb he won’t change himself anyway. /sarcasm I been whooshed! 😃 ---
**Author:** ![SmellMyWort](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ea5d25/32.png) [@SmellMyWort](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SmellMyWort)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2015, 9:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gmc-acadia-designer-engineer-roast-in-hell/738571/88 "2015-12-10T21:05:54Z")
> [@BubbaDog](#): > > Keep your fuckin dime. It doesn’t matter WHO is changing the bulb. If it takes two hours of labor to get the god damned thing changed then it’s still piss poor design. Light bulbs, like tires and windshield wipers are common wear-out features on a car. Yet changing tires or wipers doesn’t require removing body sections of the car. You may eventually need to change the headlights but definitely not as often as tires and wipers. In 20 accumulated years of car ownership across 3 vehicles I’ve only had to change one set of headlights once. In that same time I’ve gone through 4 complete tire changes (not counting snow tires) and probably two dozen sets of wipers. Plus, while easy to access, new tires require at least a couple hour trip to a tire shop, no way around it. So in the grand scheme of things, a couple hours on a headlight in order to save yourself the cost of taking it in doesn’t seem like such a big deal, imo. But then, I like doing that kind of work and think the OP gave up too early 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Rick](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/9f8e36/32.png) [@Rick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rick)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2015, 10:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gmc-acadia-designer-engineer-roast-in-hell/738571/89 "2015-12-10T22:39:52Z")
> [@enipla](#): > > Step I.1.a - Remove rear tail light assembly. > > My Wife has an 02 Grand Jeep. It needed a new gas filler pipe vent hose. Took it to our local shop. To do this the rear bumper had to be removed. Ok. I know stuff is crammed in there. > > But, they couldn’t do it. Had to be done buy a Jeep dealership. > > I suspect it’s because the bumper is a piece of safety equipment so they can’t touch it. (but what about body shops??). Or maybe, it’s such a colossal pain in the ass, they didn’t want to Allow me to translate what your shop told you into English We don’t want to / don’t know how to/ don’t have the tools to do this job. It would be against federal law to force anyone to return to the dealer for work (warranty excepted). By law all service information and special tools must be available to the aftermarket. > [@Daylate](#): > > Remember in my previous post about the Audi timing belt I mentioned that I may have forgotten something? Well, I just remembered - the left front fender also had to be removed. So what year and model was this? I’m not saying I don’t believe you , but yeah I don’t believe you. > [@botsgotme](#): > > Part of the problem is designer’s aversion to exposed screw heads-they have to conceal them everywhere. that is why pulling out the dashboard ( fix instrument panel or radio) is such a big job. I like the steam punk look-I find exposed rivets and bolt heads attractive-why hasn’t “steam punk” influenced auto designers?🙂 > [@jz78817](#): > > _Consumer Reports_ used to count exposed screws as a negative mark against a car. > [@Sparky812](#): > > Cite? > > I call Bullshit though … in fact… Consumer Reports would have favored easily accessible headlights (maybe with a recessed stainless steel screw) than a method that (deliberately) rips the consumer off. Four words and one name. Unsafe at any Speed Ralph Nadar. Besides roasting the Corvair he tore GM, I think it was, for an exposed screw head on a mirror mount that scalped a guy. So for crash safety no steam punk interiors. ---
**Author:** ![BubbaDog](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bubbadog/32/333_2.png) [@BubbaDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BubbaDog)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2015, 1:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gmc-acadia-designer-engineer-roast-in-hell/738571/90 "2015-12-11T13:43:33Z")
> [@Rick](#): > > Allow me to translate what your shop told you into English > We don’t want to / don’t know how to/ don’t have the tools to do this job. > It would be against federal law to force anyone to return to the dealer for work (warranty excepted). By law all service information and special tools must be available to the aftermarket. Yep, usually with my mechanic he states that he lacks the tools. But I didn’t know that aftermarket access was required by law. Thanks for the info. ---
**Author:** ![jz78817](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jz78817/32/1028_2.png) [@jz78817](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jz78817)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2015, 2:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gmc-acadia-designer-engineer-roast-in-hell/738571/91 "2015-12-11T14:22:56Z")
> [@Rick](#): > > So what year and model was this? I’m not saying I don’t believe you , but yeah I don’t believe you. It gets even worse on their longitudinal vee engines. The timing chainset is on the _back_ (flywheel side) of the engine. And fitted them with failure-prone tensioners, which means when (not if) they fail, it’s an engine pull. ---
**Author:** ![IDtenT\_Error](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@IDtenT\_Error](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IDtenT_Error)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2015, 4:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gmc-acadia-designer-engineer-roast-in-hell/738571/92 "2015-12-11T16:15:06Z")
> [@Mama\_Zappa](#): > > 82 or perhaps 83, I bought it in the fall of 1982. > > It may not truly have been the bumper - I got rid of the car in 1985 so I don’t exactly remember - but it was a significant part of the front trim one way or the other. > > I do recall that it took a ratchet wrench to finally get things opened easily. Mine only required a crescent wrench and a phillips screwdriver and 15 minutes worth of work. I guess they improved it between yours and mine. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gmc-acadia-designer-engineer-roast-in-hell/738571.md?page=4)