# GMO Foods: No one can seriously dispute what? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cecil's Columns/Staff Reports\ **Created:** [August 1, 2014, 11:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gmo-foods-no-one-can-seriously-dispute-what/694571 "2014-08-01T11:43:39Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 8
**Author:** ![rsat3acr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/a3d4f5/32.png) [@rsat3acr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rsat3acr)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2014, 2:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gmo-foods-no-one-can-seriously-dispute-what/694571/141 "2014-08-09T02:47:04Z")
> [@Cindyanneby](#): > > The result of gmos has been increased use of pesticides – present AND FUTURE pesticides. And you know the future how? ---
**Author:** ![Cindyanneby](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/4bbf92/32.png) [@Cindyanneby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cindyanneby)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2014, 2:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gmo-foods-no-one-can-seriously-dispute-what/694571/142 "2014-08-09T02:55:02Z")
Companies clearly DO NOT want to label, because they fear that a more informed public AND a more misinformed public will not buy their products. They are caught in a double bind, you might say. I incontrovertably think that gmos should be labeled. And I understand that food safety research shows no harm. AND, I get that a lot of people on my side in this conversation are sometimes not scientific, sometimes not specific, and too many times just plain wacky. Natural News, really? I’m on the same side as them??? I want GMO labeling more as an environmental notation than a food notation. The result of gmos has been increased use of pesticides – present AND FUTURE pesticides. The studies that have been done on the active ingredients in Roundup studied them at a lower level than they are actually being used. The incredible effectiveness of application after application has ballooned Roundup use far above what even the doomsday cassandras thought it would be. With the growing resistance of weeds, we are now moving on to another pesticide which will no doubt go through the same life cycle. We will then move on to another one, and another one. Farmers who put up the money for gmo seeds, chemicals, and fuel are certainly not going to watch their expensive crop go without water. So they pour it on. I want to avoid gmo foods because I like to make good environmental choices when I purchase food. Agriculture, done the way we are doing it, is going to kill us. I know that is hard for a lot of people to swallow, because we love cheap food and big portions. GMOs are a part of that whole cheap food industry. A big part. The whole factory farm industry relies on gmos and subsidies. I do my best to grow my own and buy local but there are some things I have to go the the grocery store for, and it is impossible for me to tell sometimes what I am buying. I really want to keep my money out of the Big Ag stream because if I support them I pay for the destruction of ground water, surface water, soil and air quality. ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2014, 2:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gmo-foods-no-one-can-seriously-dispute-what/694571/143 "2014-08-09T02:59:24Z")
Once again, Round-up is a herbicide. it kills weeds, not insects. One of the aims of GMO crops is developing plants that are resistant to insects thus _reducing_ the need for insecticides. [Example.](http://grist.org/food/in-the-insecticide-wars-gmos-have-so-far-been-a-force-for-good/) ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2014, 3:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gmo-foods-no-one-can-seriously-dispute-what/694571/144 "2014-08-09T03:11:32Z")
> [@Cindyanneby](#): > > . GMOs are a part of that whole cheap food industry. A big part. Better yields and better transport qualities also help feed a large portion of the world’s population by making foods available and cheap enough. Are you aware how severe a problem hunger is in much of the world? Are you ready to starve millions to satisfy your ideological paranoia? [Golden rice.](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Golden_rice) > [@](#): > > Golden rice is a variety of Oryza sativa rice produced through genetic engineering to biosynthesize beta-carotene, a precursor of vitamin A, in the edible parts of rice. The research was conducted with the goal of producing a fortified food to be grown and consumed in areas with **a shortage of dietary vitamin A,a deficiency which is estimated to kill 670,000 children under the age of 5 each year**. ---
**Author:** ![Try2B\_Comprehensive](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/try2b_comprehensive/32/65_2.png) [@Try2B\_Comprehensive](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Try2B_Comprehensive)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2014, 8:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gmo-foods-no-one-can-seriously-dispute-what/694571/145 "2014-08-09T08:53:50Z")
> [@running\_coach](#): > > Are you ready to starve millions to satisfy your ideological paranoia? There is putting the two letters, “GM”, in front of an ingredient on a label, and then there is the responsibility for starving millions. If ever there were a false dilemma, this is it. In a world where money is speech, corporations are manipulating the law such that citizens are incapable of exercising their 1st Amendment rights of speaking with their dollars, being rendered incapable of choosing what they do or don’t purchase. The law ought not mandate that everyone buy some corporation’s products through misinformation (this is food, not insurance). This is un-American, possibly un-Constitutional, and it has to stop. Label GM products and allow people to speak with their own dollars. They are theirs to spend after all, not Congress’, and not Monsanto’s. ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2014, 10:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gmo-foods-no-one-can-seriously-dispute-what/694571/146 "2014-08-09T10:50:06Z")
> [@Try2B\_Comprehensive](#): > > There is putting the two letters, “GM”, in front of an ingredient on a label, and then there is the responsibility for starving millions. If ever there were a false dilemma, this is it. > > In a world where money is speech, corporations are manipulating the law such that citizens are incapable of exercising their 1st Amendment rights of speaking with their dollars, being rendered incapable of choosing what they do or don’t purchase.\*\* The law ought not mandate that everyone buy some corporation’s products through misinformation\*\* (this is food, not insurance). This is un-American, possibly un-Constitutional, and it has to stop. > > Label GM products and allow people to speak with their own dollars. They are theirs to spend after all, not Congress’, and not Monsanto’s. Fine. Show some fucking proof of the harm that the consumption of these products do and stop spreading the same misinformation you condemn. ---
**Author:** ![Dunkelheit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dunkelheit/32/248_2.png) [@Dunkelheit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dunkelheit)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2014, 11:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gmo-foods-no-one-can-seriously-dispute-what/694571/147 "2014-08-09T11:49:40Z")
> [@running\_coach](#): > > Round-Up is a herbicide, not a pesticide. > > If you’re going to object to something, learn about it first. > [@running\_coach](#): > > Once again, Round-up is a herbicide. it kills weeds, not insects. Pesticide is an umbrella term, it doesn’t refer only to things that kill insects. Weeds are a type of pest, just as insects, fungi, rodents, nematodes, molluscs (slugs and snails), bacteria, etc. are, and there are pesticides for each of them. > **[Herbicide](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Herbicide)** > > Herbicides (.mw-parser-output .IPA-label-small{font-size:85%}.mw-parser-output .references .IPA-label-small,.mw-parser-output .infobox .IPA-label-small,.mw-parser-output .navbox .IPA-label-small{font-size:100%}US: /ˈɜːrbɪsaɪdz/, UK: /ˈhɜːr-/), also commonly known as weed killers, are substances used to control undesired plants, also known as weeds. Selective herbicides control specific weed species while leaving the desired crop relatively unharmed, while non-selective herbicides (sometimes ca In... “Herbicides, also commonly known as weedkillers, are pesticides used to kill unwanted plants.” > **[Pesticide](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pesticide)** > > Pesticides are substances that are used to control pests. They include herbicides, insecticides, nematicides, fungicides, and many others (see table). The most common of these are herbicides, which account for approximately 50% of all pesticide use globally. Most pesticides are used as plant protection products (also known as crop protection products), which in general protect plants from weeds, fungi, or insects. In general, a pesticide is a chemical or biological agent (such as a virus The... “The term pesticide includes all of the following: herbicide, insecticide, insect growth regulator, nematicide, termiticide, molluscicide, piscicide, avicide, rodenticide, predacide, bactericide, insect repellent, animal repellent, antimicrobial, fungicide, disinfectant (antimicrobial), and sanitizer.” If you’re going to correct someone, it’s best to make sure your correction is correct first. ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2014, 12:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gmo-foods-no-one-can-seriously-dispute-what/694571/148 "2014-08-09T12:03:07Z")
> [@Dunkelheit](#): > > Pesticide is an umbrella term, it doesn’t refer only to things that kill insects. Weeds are a type of pest, just as insects, fungi, rodents, nematodes, molluscs (slugs and snails), bacteria, etc. are, and there are pesticides for each of them. You got me there. I’ve never heard anyone use pesticide to mean anything other than bug killer. ---
**Author:** ![Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/budget_player_cadet/32/205_2.png) [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Budget_Player_Cadet)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2014, 12:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gmo-foods-no-one-can-seriously-dispute-what/694571/149 "2014-08-09T12:47:24Z")
> [@Try2B\_Comprehensive](#): > > There is putting the two letters, “GM”, in front of an ingredient on a label, and then there is the responsibility for starving millions. If ever there were a false dilemma, this is it. “There is accurately labeling the possible side-effects of vaccines, and then there is the responsibility for people dying of vaccine-preventable diseases. If ever there were a false dilemma, this is it.” :rolleyes: If labeling GM foods leads to a loss of market power for GM foods with no discernible benefit, then it’s hurting people for no discernible benefit. And once again I ask, with all the other issues of equivalent (ha!) value, why single out genetic engineering? Why not require labeling for hybridization? Why not require labeling for “non-heirloom”? Why not require labeling for “grown with the following pesticides”? Why the singular attention to GM? It’s all meaningless fluff with no actual value to the consumer, beyond the inherent stigmatization that comes from singling out something to label - “Oh, they had to label that? Why, is it dangerous or something?” > [@](#): > > In a world where money is speech, corporations are manipulating the law such that citizens are incapable of exercising their 1st Amendment rights of speaking with their dollars, being rendered incapable of choosing what they do or don’t purchase. They’re rendered incapable of making a completely meaningless, harmful decision based on false information. I’ll call that a win. > [@](#): > > The law ought not mandate that everyone buy some corporation’s products through misinformation (this is food, not insurance). This is un-American, possibly un-Constitutional, and it has to stop. I agree! Label all non-Halal foods! :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2014, 3:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gmo-foods-no-one-can-seriously-dispute-what/694571/150 "2014-08-09T15:17:21Z")
> [@Cindyanneby](#): > > I want GMO labeling more as an environmental notation than a food notation. The result of gmos has been increased use of pesticides – present AND FUTURE pesticides. Untrue. _“Between 1996 and 2011, Bt corn reduced insecticide use in corn production by 45% worldwide (110 million pounds, or roughly the equivalent of 20,000 Olympic swimming pools).”_ Sure, Roundup use has increased considerably following introduction of Roundup-resistant crops. But this development has _decreased_ usage of far more environmentally harmful herbicides. And you should look at worldwide trends before deciding that GMOs are a threat to the environment. \*"In parts of India, farmers spray more than 60 insecticides on their eggplant—known to locals as brinjal—during the growing season, mainly to protect the purple fruit from burrowing bugs, says Ponnuswami Balasubramanian, a plant molecular biologist at Tamil Nadu Agricultural University in Coimbatore, India. To reduce the insecticide load without losing the harvest, Balasubramanian, together with public sector researchers and a private Indian seed company, developed Bt versions of four varieties of eggplant that are popular in southern states. Monsanto was not involved, but still public outcry from GMO opponents blocked the eggplants from federal approval. “It was madness to stop Bt brinjal” says Kulvinder Gill, an agricultural geneticist at Washington State University in Pullman, Washington, who grew up in India and was not involved with the project. “People should not even be eating this brinjal because it has so much insecticide on it,” Gill says, “Anything to reduce that would be extremely beneficial.”\* > **[GMOs May Feed the World Using Fewer Pesticides](https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/article/fewer-pesticides-farming-with-gmos/)** > > To feed the masses, farmers depend on chemicals. But genetic engineering could slash pesticide use. If we’ve got to label foods based on their environmental footprint, GM crops (at least in some cases) should get an award. And there should be mandatory labeling of organic produce describing toxicities of their preferred pesticides (pyrethrin for example is harmful to bees) and noting that the extra land needed to grow adequate volumes of lower-yielding organic crops deprives wild creatures of valuable habitat. ---
**Author:** ![dropzone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dropzone/32/7515_2.png) [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2014, 4:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gmo-foods-no-one-can-seriously-dispute-what/694571/151 "2014-08-09T16:08:41Z")
But. . .but. . .but DNA! ---
**Author:** ![Try2B\_Comprehensive](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/try2b_comprehensive/32/65_2.png) [@Try2B\_Comprehensive](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Try2B_Comprehensive)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2014, 5:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gmo-foods-no-one-can-seriously-dispute-what/694571/152 "2014-08-09T17:32:36Z")
> [@running\_coach](#): > > Fine. Show some fucking proof of the harm that the consumption of these products do and stop spreading the same misinformation you condemn. I’m not spreading any misinformation, and I don’t have to prove something is harmful to not want to buy it. The burden is on Monsanto to explain why everyone in the country must have no choice but to buy their products. Still, many would claim that Monsanto’s manipulation of our legal system is a harm. ---
**Author:** ![Try2B\_Comprehensive](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/try2b_comprehensive/32/65_2.png) [@Try2B\_Comprehensive](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Try2B_Comprehensive)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2014, 5:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gmo-foods-no-one-can-seriously-dispute-what/694571/153 "2014-08-09T17:35:23Z")
> [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](#): > > If labeling GM foods leads to a loss of market power for GM foods with no discernible benefit, then it’s hurting people for no discernible benefit. And once again I ask, with all the other issues of equivalent (ha!) value, why single out genetic engineering? Why not require labeling for hybridization? Why not require labeling for “non-heirloom”? Why not require labeling for “grown with the following pesticides”? Why the singular attention to GM? It’s all meaningless fluff with no actual value to the consumer, beyond the inherent stigmatization that comes from singling out something to label - “Oh, they had to label that? Why, is it dangerous or something?” Why not quit changing the subject? The thread is about GM. > [@](#): > > They’re rendered incapable of making a completely meaningless, harmful decision based on false information. I’ll call that a win. Strawman. > [@](#): > > I agree! Label all non-Halal foods! :rolleyes: Strawman. ---
**Author:** ![tracer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tracer/32/20578_2.png) [@tracer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tracer)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2014, 6:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gmo-foods-no-one-can-seriously-dispute-what/694571/154 "2014-08-09T18:21:57Z")
Just to throw more fuel on this fire: Mark Lynas is an environmentalist. He used to be anti-GMO, but he is now pro-GMO. (And no, despite the cries of his opponents, he didn’t become a “Monsanto shill.”) He has an … interesting take on the labelling issue. He basicall wants GM food to be labelled so that the anti-GMO crowd will shut up about it – i.e. so that their main talking point can be taken away from them. Here’s an audio recording of a presentation he gave on this topic in 2013. (Be warned, it’s 42 minutes long): [![]( " - YouTube") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gz1zobl4Gi0) ---
**Author:** ![IvoryTowerDenizen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ivorytowerdenizen/32/17937_2.png) [@IvoryTowerDenizen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IvoryTowerDenizen)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2014, 6:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gmo-foods-no-one-can-seriously-dispute-what/694571/155 "2014-08-09T18:22:28Z")
> [@Try2B\_Comprehensive](#): > > I’m not spreading any misinformation, and I don’t have to prove something is harmful to not want to buy it. The burden is on Monsanto to explain \*\*why everyone in the country must have no choice but to buy their products. \*\* Talk about a strawman. ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2014, 6:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gmo-foods-no-one-can-seriously-dispute-what/694571/156 "2014-08-09T18:36:34Z")
[QUOTE=Try2B Comprehensive] The burden is on Monsanto to explain why everyone in the country must have no choice but to buy their products. [/QUOTE] Right. All those foods at the market labeled “non-GMO” and “organic”, plus all the vast amounts of food in the produce section for which there are no GMO versions must be a phantasm - an illusion created by Monsanto to delude us into thinking we already have lots of alternative choices. They don’t call it “Mon-Satan-O” for nothing. :eek: ---
**Author:** ![Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/budget_player_cadet/32/205_2.png) [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Budget_Player_Cadet)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2014, 2:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gmo-foods-no-one-can-seriously-dispute-what/694571/157 "2014-08-10T02:17:13Z")
> [@Try2B\_Comprehensive](#): > > Why not quit changing the subject? The thread is about GM. Because your justification for GM applies to _everything else_ and becomes ludicrous very quickly when seen outside of the purview of GM. I see no reason to label GM, because GM has no effect on the final product. It’s like complaining that your beer was stored in cooling tanks cooled by glycol and demanding labeling for that. You want GM labeling. Why? Give me one good reason that isn’t either completely arbitrary and doesn’t apply to whatever other random bullshit that nobody should reasonably give a shit about. That should not be difficult. ---
**Author:** ![dropzone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dropzone/32/7515_2.png) [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2014, 3:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gmo-foods-no-one-can-seriously-dispute-what/694571/158 "2014-08-10T15:31:57Z")
BBC, you do know that glycol is poisonous, right? 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Dunkelheit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dunkelheit/32/248_2.png) [@Dunkelheit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dunkelheit)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2014, 3:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gmo-foods-no-one-can-seriously-dispute-what/694571/159 "2014-08-10T15:38:23Z")
> [@running\_coach](#): > > You got me there. I’ve never heard anyone use pesticide to mean anything other than bug killer. Graciously said, thank you. The impression is probably because insects are the most common and numerous pests in various contexts, from agricultural to household, so you’re probably not the only one who thinks of it that way. ---
**Author:** ![Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/budget_player_cadet/32/205_2.png) [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Budget_Player_Cadet)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2014, 4:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gmo-foods-no-one-can-seriously-dispute-what/694571/160 "2014-08-10T16:08:41Z")
> [@dropzone](#): > > BBC, you do know that glycol is poisonous, right? 😉 Yeah, well, if the coolant for the holding tanks is ending up in the beer you’ve got bigger problems. 😃 [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gmo-foods-no-one-can-seriously-dispute-what/694571.md?page=7) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gmo-foods-no-one-can-seriously-dispute-what/694571.md?page=9)