# Go ahead, be mean to the nice black man **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [December 31, 2008, 4:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/go-ahead-be-mean-to-the-nice-black-man/479362 "2008-12-31T16:10:50Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![cards](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ecd19e/32.png) [@cards](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cards)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2008, 4:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/go-ahead-be-mean-to-the-nice-black-man/479362/1 "2008-12-31T16:10:50Z")
Just when I think I’ve seen it all, Rottney Blags plays the race card: [http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/28444828/](http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/28444828/) So Gov. Blags basically says to the Democratic senators, “I fuckin’ double dare you to try to not seat Mr. Burris. Suck it, bitches”. Under different circumstances, Roland would be a good choice on several levels. Nice gentleman, been a decent politician (for Illinois anyway), had a good career. A little long in the tooth, but hey, there have been many senators that are older. But to do it this way, Blags is defiantly waving both middle fingers at everyone, the senate, the state, the people. By picking this good black gentleman, Rottney is introducing yet another twist, throwing race into the equation just to make things even harder. So to my ass pimple of a governor, nice move you fucking dickhead. Let’s make things as hard as we can for everyone, placing a huge distraction in Obama’s path, making the people of Illinois a laughing stock, clouding a fine man’s reputation (Burris, because I’m already hearing whispers about what “deal” he had to cut with Rottney…which I don’t believe, but the aspersion is there) and telling the US senate to kiss his ass. When the US attorney finally gets you locked up, I hope you end up in the worst prison the feds have, you complete fucktard. ---
**Author:** ![Ethilrist](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ethilrist/32/4604_2.png) [@Ethilrist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ethilrist)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2008, 4:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/go-ahead-be-mean-to-the-nice-black-man/479362/2 "2008-12-31T16:20:02Z")
um… they asked him to come up with a good replacement for Obama, and he did. crucify him! ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2008, 4:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/go-ahead-be-mean-to-the-nice-black-man/479362/3 "2008-12-31T16:22:11Z")
Um, no … “they” asked him to resign and disappear, so somebody else with a shred of credibility could appoint the replacement. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Carrot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f0a364/32.png) [@Captain\_Carrot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Carrot)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2008, 4:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/go-ahead-be-mean-to-the-nice-black-man/479362/4 "2008-12-31T16:23:53Z")
> [@cards](#): > > (Burris, because I’m already hearing whispers about what “deal” he had to cut with Rottney…which I don’t believe, but the aspersion is there) Burris has given money to Blago’s campaign account, so there is some evidence. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2008, 4:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/go-ahead-be-mean-to-the-nice-black-man/479362/5 "2008-12-31T16:26:00Z")
“Rottney”? I thought his full name was Milorad, not Rodney. ---
**Author:** ![dropzone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dropzone/32/7515_2.png) [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2008, 4:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/go-ahead-be-mean-to-the-nice-black-man/479362/6 "2008-12-31T16:27:01Z")
I happily and proudly voted for him in the 1994 governor primary. I think I can live with him as my senator. That’s been some of the fun of having Blago as governor. On the one hand, he’s a sleaze. On the other hand, my kids have health insurance. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2008, 4:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/go-ahead-be-mean-to-the-nice-black-man/479362/7 "2008-12-31T16:31:35Z")
I think they should just go ahead and seat him. The best evidence is that Blago is a slime, but he hasn’t been convicted of anything, so da rules say we have to pretend he’s innocent until someone proves otherwise. (Which doesn’t seem to be much of a problem, but still.) There is a very, very good reason we have that rule about innocent until proven guilty. Sometimes it bites us in the ass, but that doesn’t mean we dump it at our discretion. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2008, 4:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/go-ahead-be-mean-to-the-nice-black-man/479362/8 "2008-12-31T16:38:35Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > I think they should just go ahead and seat him. The best evidence is that Blago is a slime, but he hasn’t been convicted of anything, so da rules say we have to pretend he’s innocent until someone proves otherwise. (Which doesn’t seem to be much of a problem, but still.) “Innocent until proven guilty” applies to the legal system, not the Senate. The Senate can choose to act based on the appearance of impropriety if it wants to, rather than waiting for proof of a crime. An extra middle finger to Bobby Rush, by the way. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2008, 4:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/go-ahead-be-mean-to-the-nice-black-man/479362/9 "2008-12-31T16:44:21Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > he hasn’t been convicted of anything, so da rules say we have to pretend he’s innocent until someone proves otherwise. The rules of criminal law do say that, but not the rules of _politics_. Which realm do you think this is? He can certainly have his technical presumption of legal not-guiltiness, but he is not entitled to anything at all regarding his tenure in office beyond having “his side” heard - and he hasn’t offered that. The evidence appropriate to the Court of Public Opinion, namely the transcripts, is already entered into the record there without rebuttal. ---
**Author:** ![Ethilrist](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ethilrist/32/4604_2.png) [@Ethilrist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ethilrist)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2008, 4:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/go-ahead-be-mean-to-the-nice-black-man/479362/10 "2008-12-31T16:55:02Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > Um, no … “they” asked him to resign and disappear, so somebody else with a shred of credibility could appoint the replacement. They asked him to do a bunch of things, and this is the one he did. I find it hilarious. Then again, I don’t live in Illinois, so I’m not directly influenced by it. You may all feel free to point and laugh at the Minnesota Senate race, and Michelle Bachmann. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2008, 4:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/go-ahead-be-mean-to-the-nice-black-man/479362/11 "2008-12-31T16:58:20Z")
Well, sure, if there is some “impropriety” in the selection, yeah. But if Burris is as clean as he has been presented (about which I know squat…) then the faults of his selector are not quite relevant. I’m picking up hints that one reason the Dems don’t want to seat this guy is that he has a habit of losing elections. a perpetual nice guy who finishes second. Which would mean, if the pattern holds, that he will lose a bid for an elected term to a Republican. The rules say that the Gov’s choice is legal and legitimate until such time as he is removed from office. We must be very careful if we are going to go about bending the rules to circumstances. My main problem with Burris is his willingness to accept such a gift from such tainted hands. Rather poor judgment, in my estimation. But not enough to disqualify. I would be pleased to see him change his mind, and refuse the appointment. But if we start in saying the rules don’t count when we are right, then the rules don’t count when we are wrong, either. ---
**Author:** ![TVeblen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/4bbf92/32.png) [@TVeblen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TVeblen)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2008, 5:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/go-ahead-be-mean-to-the-nice-black-man/479362/12 "2008-12-31T17:42:49Z")
[QUOTE=elucidator] My main problem with Burris is his willingness to accept such a gift from such tainted hands. Rather poor judgment, in my estimation. But not enough to disqualify. I would be pleased to see him change his mind, and refuse the appointment. [/QUOTE] Bingo. Burris has a pretty clean reputation, especially for Illinois politics. Seemingly he’s a genuinely nice guy, too. (I think I voted for him, actually.) Unfortunately, he also let his ambition override good judgment. The Senate went on record quite a ways back that they would not seat anyone Blago would appoint. And they had damned good reason for that, not the least was the Guv’s artless taped statements about the seat being to valuable too give away, what he’d expect in return for the “gift”, etc. What the hell else _could_ they do? Cheney/Shrub are hated but Congress doesn’t have a great approval rating right now either. Just about all they can do is clasp their hands protectively over their posteriors and back away, fast, from Blago and all his works. They haven’t had “improprieties” like this to avoid since Congress fled en masse from public toilet stalls. Too bad for Burris but he deserves to be booted. He knew the “gift” appointment came dripping with slime. He diminished himself into nothing more than a handy race card for Blago to play in his cynical game of keep-out-of-jail. (Rather funny, actually, how thoroughly Blago hates Obama; the youthful, dynamic guy who stole the national spotlight that shoulda been _his_.) Burris played along. He knew better. What the hell did he expect to happen? Please, please, let the gears of justice grind on. They’re slow so I hope they’re grinding exceedingly fine, enough to send Blago away to do hard time, for a long, long time. ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2008, 5:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/go-ahead-be-mean-to-the-nice-black-man/479362/13 "2008-12-31T17:50:02Z")
> [@cards](#): > > Just when I think I’ve seen it all, Rottney Blags plays the race card: Just in case the actual facts matter (which you could have gotten from your own fucking link), it was [Representative Bobby Rush](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bobby_Rush), and not Governor Blagojevich, who played the race card. He likened rejecting Burris to a [hanging or lynching](http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/12/30/rep-rush-dont-hang-or-lyn_n_154290.html?page=6&show_comment_id=19237713#comment_19237713). ---
**Author:** ![TVeblen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/4bbf92/32.png) [@TVeblen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TVeblen)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2008, 6:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/go-ahead-be-mean-to-the-nice-black-man/479362/14 "2008-12-31T18:08:10Z")
[QUOTE=Liberal] Just in case the actual facts matter (which you could have gotten from your own fucking link), it was [Representative Bobby Rush](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bobby_Rush), and not Governor Blagojevich, who played the race card. He likened rejecting Burris to a [hanging or lynching](http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/12/30/rep-rush-dont-hang-or-lyn_n_154290.html?page=6&show_comment_id=19237713#comment_19237713). [/QUOTE] Can’t agree with you on this one, Lib. Blago’s appointment of Burris was entirely cynical, laying that card face up on the table in the first place. Rep. Rush obligingly belted out the chorus, right on cue, which was entirely predictable, i.e. apply triangular little rubber hammer thingy to underside of kneecap…yep, forceful spasm. I’m really disappointed in Burris for allowing himself to be involved in this. Stupid, really, because politics–maybe the lure of power?–can act weirdly on people, even the best of 'em. Party affiliation, philosophy, office: don’t matter. Burris _has_ done some genuinely good work in office, so it’s sad to see him lured into being Blago’s cat toy. ---
**Author:** ![cards](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ecd19e/32.png) [@cards](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cards)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2008, 6:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/go-ahead-be-mean-to-the-nice-black-man/479362/15 "2008-12-31T18:13:24Z")
> [@Liberal](#): > > Just in case the actual facts matter (which you could have gotten from your own fucking link), it was [Representative Bobby Rush](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bobby_Rush), and not Governor Blagojevich, who played the race card. He likened rejecting Burris to a [hanging or lynching](http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/12/30/rep-rush-dont-hang-or-lyn_n_154290.html?page=6&show_comment_id=19237713#comment_19237713). You miss the point. Blag’s history here is to make life as difficult as possible. The fact that he picked Burris is a calculated move on his part to make things as difficult as possible. Why else would he have Rush at the microphones, if not to make that very statement? It was a clear calculation by Blags, cynical and manipulative. And I see TVeblen beat me to the punch. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2008, 6:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/go-ahead-be-mean-to-the-nice-black-man/479362/16 "2008-12-31T18:20:36Z")
[Rush, believe it or not, goes further in telling the Democrats they are racists if they don’t accept Burris:](http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2008/12/31/rush-says-senate-dems-risk-following-in-bull-connors-footsteps/) > [@](#): > > “You know, the recent history of our nation has shown us that sometimes there could be individuals and there could be situations where schoolchildren — where you have officials standing in the doorway of schoolchildren,” Rush told CBS Wednesday morning. “You know, I’m talking about all of us back in 1957 in Little Rock, Ark. I’m talking about George Wallace, Bull Connor and I’m sure that the U.S. Senate don’t want to see themselves placed in the same position.” > > Rush told CNN Tuesday that the lack of African-Americans in the Senate was “a moral outrage” that “should make most fair-minded Americans very, very angry.” I happen to agree with him about the lack of African-American Senators, which is ridiculous. But that hasn’t got much to do with the price of tea in China, and the problem isn’t magically solved if there is one token black guy in the Senate. If there was even a hint the Senate might reject Burris because he’s black, he’d be spot-on. We know that’s not the case, since they promised to refuse any Blagojevich appointment weeks ago. Most of the favorites at that time were white anyway. Suggesting they seat Burris _just_ because he’s black is moronic. ---
**Author:** ![Shayna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/shayna/32/17976_2.png) [@Shayna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shayna)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2008, 6:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/go-ahead-be-mean-to-the-nice-black-man/479362/17 "2008-12-31T18:27:52Z")
> [@TVeblen](#): > > Too bad for Burris but he deserves to be booted. He knew the “gift” appointment came dripping with slime. He diminished himself into nothing more than a handy race card for Blago to play in his cynical game of keep-out-of-jail. (Rather funny, actually, how thoroughly Blago hates Obama; the youthful, dynamic guy who stole the national spotlight that shoulda been _his_.) Burris played along. He knew better. What the hell did he expect to happen? At least Representative Davis said thanks, but no thanks when Blago tried to pull the same crap with him. > [@](#): > > . . . > > “I indicated I came to the conclusion there was too much discomfort on my part and the part of my family,” Davis said. Anyway, he could not see how the governor could name anyone and make it stick. > > But most important, Davis said he realized that if he took the job, “It would be difficult to generate the trust level people would have to have in me. I just decided there was too much turmoil, too much disagreement. It was something I wanted to do, but I said I would not take an appointment from the governor.” > > . . . > > Obama was the only African American in the Senate, and Rush said the seat must go to an African American. > > . . . > > Davis, an African American, disagrees with Rush. It’s not all about race. Said Davis, “I always said that I don’t think it is a seat that belongs to anybody. . . . The person should be who can best unify the state and bring back a sense of integrity and trust. . . . The seat does not belong to any race or any ethnic group or any category of individual. It belongs to the voters.” > > [http://www.suntimes.com/news/sweet/1356051,CST-NWS-sweet31.article](http://www.suntimes.com/news/sweet/1356051,CST-NWS-sweet31.article) He sounds like a man of integrity. I hope he’s reconsidered for the position once a proper appointment process can be hashed out. > [@TVeblen](#): > > Please, please, let the gears of justice grind on. They’re slow so I hope they’re grinding exceedingly fine, enough to send Blago away to do hard time, for a long, long time. Fitzgerald is asking for a 90-day extension because. . . > [@](#): > > . . . “multiple witnesses” have come forward in recent weeks and investigators have to review “thousands of intercepted phone calls.” > > [http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/I/ILLINOIS\_GOVERNOR\_INDICTMENT?SITE=SCGRE&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT](http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/I/ILLINOIS_GOVERNOR_INDICTMENT?SITE=SCGRE&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT) Sounds like they’re grinding so fine they’re almost powdery. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![dropzone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dropzone/32/7515_2.png) [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2008, 6:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/go-ahead-be-mean-to-the-nice-black-man/479362/18 "2008-12-31T18:37:57Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > I’m picking up hints that one reason the Dems don’t want to seat this guy is that he has a habit of losing elections. a perpetual nice guy who finishes second. Which would mean, if the pattern holds, that he will lose a bid for an elected term to a Republican. There’s that, but he’d be running as the incumbent, which helps. Screw the taint implications. He’s a good man and doesn’t deserve it. And it could be worse. Don’t forget that there’s long been the fear Blago would appoint himself. ETA: I’m glad somebody decent said yes. I didn’t want Blago scraping the bottom of the barrel to find someone willing. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2008, 6:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/go-ahead-be-mean-to-the-nice-black-man/479362/19 "2008-12-31T18:51:40Z")
> [@dropzone](#): > > There’s that, but he’d be running as the incumbent, which helps. As much as being associated with Blagojevich hurts? I doubt it. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Carrot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f0a364/32.png) [@Captain\_Carrot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Carrot)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2008, 6:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/go-ahead-be-mean-to-the-nice-black-man/479362/20 "2008-12-31T18:55:33Z")
> [@dropzone](#): > > Screw the taint implications. He’s a good man and doesn’t deserve it. He was a good man. Accepting the appointment shows a _serious_ lack of judgement, and accepting it with a history of giving Blago money makes him stupid. > [@dropzone](#): > > ETA: I’m glad somebody decent said yes. I didn’t want Blago scraping the bottom of the barrel to find someone willing. I don’t want Blago finding anyone at all. He shouldn’t be making the appointment, and he wouldn’t if he had an ounce of integrity in him. Then again, if he had an ounce of integrity, he wouldn’t have gotten into this situation either. No, wait, this part is due to his idiocy in making incriminating calls on phones he **knew** were tapped. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/go-ahead-be-mean-to-the-nice-black-man/479362.md?page=2)