# Go Ahead, call them Nazis. Godwin says it's OK **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [August 14, 2017, 6:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/go-ahead-call-them-nazis-godwin-says-its-ok/793655 "2017-08-14T18:28:49Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2017, 6:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/go-ahead-call-them-nazis-godwin-says-its-ok/793655/1 "2017-08-14T18:28:49Z")
[http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/godwins-law-creator-supports-calling-racist-demonstrators-nazis\_us\_59919eb5e4b0909642986356?ncid=inblnkushpmg00000009](http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/godwins-law-creator-supports-calling-racist-demonstrators-nazis_us_59919eb5e4b0909642986356?ncid=inblnkushpmg00000009) > [@](#): > > Following a tragic weekend of political violence in Charlottesville, Virginia, that left three dead, you may be tempted to say the white supremacist demonstrators who fomented the violence are Nazis. > Go ahead: Godwin himself wouldn’t stop you. > Mike Godwin, an attorney and author, coined something called Godwin’s law in 1990, when internet discussion boards were first proliferating. Godwin’s law famously posits, “As an online discussion grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Hitler approaches 1.” (In other words, if an online discussion persists long enough, someone will eventually compare a person or thing to Hitler or his ideology.) > In the years since he introduced the law, it has become a mainstay of internet discussion boards. And as it has proliferated, the general understanding of the law has grown less precise; though Godwin’s law is not intended to be used to penalize people for invoking Hitler, it’s often invoked now to claim that debaters who compare each other to Hitler have “violated” Godwin’s law. The penalty: The person who referenced Hitler or Nazis automatically loses the argument. A gentler version holds that once Hitler comes up in a debate, the conversation has outlived its usefulness. > Godwin sees his law a bit differently, however. On Sunday, he tweeted about the events in Charlottesville, and he didn’t mince words: > > This isn’t the first time he’s encouraged people to use the Hitler comparison, provided that they’re deploying it thoughtfully and with an understanding of the historical context. In June, Godwin assured a journalist who had insinuated that prominent white nationalist Richard Spencer was a Nazi that his law did not preclude the comparison. Time magazine interviewed him following the exchange, and he suggested, “If you think the comparison is valid, and you’ve given it some thought, do it … We have to keep the magnitude of those events in mind, and not be glib.” ---
**Author:** ![Revenant\_Threshold](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f1d935/32.png) [@Revenant\_Threshold](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revenant_Threshold)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2017, 6:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/go-ahead-call-them-nazis-godwin-says-its-ok/793655/2 "2017-08-14T18:30:08Z")
I didn’t realise Godwin’s Law didn’t predate the internet. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2017, 6:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/go-ahead-call-them-nazis-godwin-says-its-ok/793655/3 "2017-08-14T18:45:37Z")
> [@Revenant\_Threshold](#): > > I didn’t realise Godwin’s Law didn’t predate the internet. The internet is what allowed for interminable discussions. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2017, 6:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/go-ahead-call-them-nazis-godwin-says-its-ok/793655/4 "2017-08-14T18:47:47Z")
> [@Colibri](#): > > The internet is what allowed for interminable discussions. You know who else allowed for interminable discussions? ---
**Author:** ![watchwolf49](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e9c0ed/32.png) [@watchwolf49](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/watchwolf49)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2017, 7:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/go-ahead-call-them-nazis-godwin-says-its-ok/793655/5 "2017-08-14T19:28:10Z")
What would Hitler think of this thread? ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2017, 7:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/go-ahead-call-them-nazis-godwin-says-its-ok/793655/6 "2017-08-14T19:35:56Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > You know who else allowed for interminable discussions? Not Hitler, that’s for sure. ---
**Author:** ![bobot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bobot/32/21622_2.png) [@bobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobot)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2017, 8:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/go-ahead-call-them-nazis-godwin-says-its-ok/793655/7 "2017-08-14T20:32:12Z")
So wait a minute, there are people who attend white power rallies, sig heil proudly, and wave swastika flags who claim to \*not \*be nazis? Why it would take quite a stupid person to try that. I mean, that is legendary levels of stupid. Thanks Godwin, but those people are nazis even without your permission. ---
**Author:** ![Derleth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Derleth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Derleth)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2017, 8:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/go-ahead-call-them-nazis-godwin-says-its-ok/793655/8 "2017-08-14T20:33:10Z")
Godwin’s Law is about emotions. That’s it. It’s an observation that when a discussion has gotten to the point where the participants are _comparing each other_ to Nazis, either directly or by proxy, it’s beyond the point of reasoned debate and is in the realm of pure name-calling. It doesn’t even have to be Nazis. Stalinists would work as well, or “tankies”, if you want to refer to latter-day Stalin supporters who agree with Stalin’s penchant for crushing peaceful protests using tanks. In the right forum, calling someone a “liberal” or a “conservative” could be equivalent; it just has to be a conversational grenade which thereafter makes the conversation about _it_ and not the ostensible/original topic. Godwin’s point is, once someone’s throwing grenades, it’s over. It’s just anger from then on out. The debate portion of the thread is long over. (Unless, of course, the people involved can see that the grenade-thrower is just a troll or other interloper who doesn’t reflect the actual emotions of the people involved. Shouting “NAZI!” in a crowded debate isn’t likely to permanently derail the debate, only pause it long enough to eject the unruly one.) ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2017, 8:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/go-ahead-call-them-nazis-godwin-says-its-ok/793655/9 "2017-08-14T20:35:43Z")
No one ever said calling a Nazi a Nazi is needless and counterproductive hyperbole. So thank you Mr. Godwin. ---
**Author:** ![Derleth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Derleth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Derleth)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2017, 8:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/go-ahead-call-them-nazis-godwin-says-its-ok/793655/10 "2017-08-14T20:41:54Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > No one ever said calling a Nazi a Nazi is needless and counterproductive hyperbole. So thank you Mr. Godwin. So you agree that the people who say “HEIL TRUMP!” are Nazis? ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2017, 3:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/go-ahead-call-them-nazis-godwin-says-its-ok/793655/11 "2017-08-15T03:45:57Z")
> [@Derleth](#): > > So you agree that the people who say “HEIL TRUMP!” are Nazis? If it goose steps like a duck and “sieg heils” like a duck … ---
**Author:** ![madmonk28](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madmonk28/32/20811_2.png) [@madmonk28](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madmonk28)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2017, 4:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/go-ahead-call-them-nazis-godwin-says-its-ok/793655/12 "2017-08-15T04:03:20Z")
> [@Colibri](#): > > The internet is what allowed for interminable discussions. You never spent thanksgiving with my family in the 80s. ---
**Author:** ![Drunky\_Smurf](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/drunky_smurf/32/449_2.png) [@Drunky\_Smurf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Drunky_Smurf)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2017, 4:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/go-ahead-call-them-nazis-godwin-says-its-ok/793655/13 "2017-08-15T04:12:53Z")
This thread is worse than Hitler. ---
**Author:** ![Apollyon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/apollyon/32/4238_2.png) [@Apollyon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Apollyon)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2017, 4:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/go-ahead-call-them-nazis-godwin-says-its-ok/793655/14 "2017-08-15T04:15:58Z")
> [@Derleth](#): > > So you agree that the people who say “HEIL TRUMP!” are Nazis? \ There are people saying this without irony and in all seriousness?! ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2017, 4:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/go-ahead-call-them-nazis-godwin-says-its-ok/793655/15 "2017-08-15T04:18:34Z")
> [@madmonk28](#): > > You never spent thanksgiving with my family in the 80s. How long did it take for someone to mention Hitler? ---
**Author:** ![Dale\_Sams](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/779978/32.png) [@Dale\_Sams](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dale_Sams)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2017, 6:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/go-ahead-call-them-nazis-godwin-says-its-ok/793655/16 "2017-08-15T06:13:10Z")
> [@Drunky\_Smurf](#): > > This thread is worse than Hitler. You know who else hated threads like this??? …Stalin. It was Stalin. Mao said he really wasn’t bothered. ---
**Author:** ![madmonk28](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madmonk28/32/20811_2.png) [@madmonk28](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madmonk28)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2017, 6:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/go-ahead-call-them-nazis-godwin-says-its-ok/793655/17 "2017-08-15T06:34:38Z")
> [@Colibri](#): > > How long did it take for someone to mention Hitler? Depends if the game was on or not, we weren’t fans of Tom Landry in my house. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2017, 6:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/go-ahead-call-them-nazis-godwin-says-its-ok/793655/18 "2017-08-15T06:57:22Z")
> [@bobot](#): > > So wait a minute, there are people who attend white power rallies, sig heil proudly, and wave swastika flags who claim to \*not \*be nazis? It’s almost as if they got the idea somewhere that people who believe the things they believe are _bad_ people. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2017, 5:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/go-ahead-call-them-nazis-godwin-says-its-ok/793655/19 "2017-08-15T17:42:44Z")
> [@madmonk28](#): > > Depends if the game was on or not, we weren’t fans of Tom Landry in my house. Yeah, I remember the time that Landry invaded Poland. Talk about calling a blitz! ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2017, 6:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/go-ahead-call-them-nazis-godwin-says-its-ok/793655/20 "2017-08-15T18:03:48Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > It’s almost as if they got the idea somewhere that people who believe the things they believe are _bad_ people. I think it had more to do with the sudden painful realization that “we know who you are” and there are repercussions. Nazis are getting fired from their jobs. Nazis are being disowned by their families. Nazis who hoped to hide in anonymity after attacking someone with a metal pipe are being found and identified on the internet. The sick fuck in the car attack was busted right away and held without bail. I guess the posturing and “blood and soil” false courage, the Hitler slogan shirts and guns and ubermacho bullshit was just that. Bullshit. If they sieg heil, wear Hitler slogan shirts, wave Nazi flags, and yell about killing jews, blacks, everyone, all their denials now are seen for what they are - cowardice. They went to Charlottesvile Virginia looking to start shit and thought there would be no repercussions? Guess again. People are tired of their shit. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/go-ahead-call-them-nazis-godwin-says-its-ok/793655.md?page=2)