No, that’s the point, you can and should support our service people, no matter what you think about the war.
As far as the definition of support goes, there are more options then waving a flag and attending a rally, and anyone who thinks otherwise is an idiot.
World Eater, what I haven’t really seen explained is why we “should” support our service people. Where is this moral imperative coming from? About the best I’ve heard is something along the lines of “Appreciate the sacrifices made so you could have this freedom.” But as someone who does not believe Iraq ever posed a threat to my freedom, I don’t find this argument convincing.
If the question is whether I support the idea of America having a military, well of course the answer is yes. In this particular case, though, I don’t support the war, so of course I don’t support anyone participating in it. The nature of their job means they don’t have the luxury of disobeying orders they disagree with, so hell, I wouldn’t be surprised if a lot of them feel, as I do, that they are over there for the wrong reasons. Regardless, they don’t have the option to back out. That’s kind of sad, but then again it’s what they signed up for, and it’s precisely the reason I myself would never sign up.
So yes, I wish our troops over there all the best of luck, but if they die, it’s on their Commander-in-Chief’s head, not mine. My support or lack thereof will make not a whit of difference when Saddam finally rolls out his vast arsenal of Weapons of Mass Destruction.
OK, what other options? Let’s just pretend I want to support the troops fully. Give me a laundry list of things I should be doing.
Sill vooz plays.
I thought it was an attempt to keep people from reacting the way they did after Vietnam. As much as I dislike this war, I am not going to blame Private Jones, or whoever, for the President’s (IMO) asinine behavior.
Where do you think you get the freedom to voice these opinions my friend? It sure as hell isn’t the protestor in the street that gave you the opportunity. Maybe support them because as soon as you take your freedom for granted, you’ll enjoy having your mouth stapled shut and wearing veils.
jellen92: We already covered that. It may not be today’s protester in the street that gave me my freedom, but neither was it any of the individuals currently deployed in Iraq. And PLEASE don’t tell me you’re seriously afraid Saddam (or even Osama) is going to come over here and take over the country because I don’t support the troops.
whiterabbit: I certainly appreciate that. But if we do end up in another Vietnam (that is, if this campaign stretches on into years), this initial blast of troop-supporting fervor will have certainly died down by that point; the jingoists will have blown their wad.
Of course if you’re black, or female, to a certain extent it WAS the protestor in the street who gave you the freedom to voice your opinions…
Haven’t read the whole thread, but here is a bit of a conversation my wife and I had a few days ago. To understand the impetus for it you’ll need to know that we’ve had conversations about patriotism and service in the past. I’m unequivocally uninterested in “patriotic” activities and I am certainly not cut out for military service. Beyond the fact that I may end up being ordered to kill people for reasons I personally disagree with(as I’m sure some of our servicemen are doing) I simply dislike the kind of structured existance where individuals are so micro-managed that there is a right and wrong way to lace up shoes. My wife, daughter of a veteran, neice of more veterans, has a different viewpoint. She believes military service is an intrinsically good and noble thing. I think she’s kind of accepted my stance as being ok, but she still thinks serving one’s country, right or wrong, is a good thing.
Recently there was a “support the troops” day at work. We’re making care packages which will be sent to a co-worker’s son and distributed among his company. I purchased a large amount of various goods that were on their “want list” and donated packing material as well as some cash to defray shipping costs. My wife was somewhat thrown by my willingness to support the troops in this matter and she asked “Have you changed your mind about the military?” I replied. “No. I also believe we have no good reason to be in Iraq and I believe we’re being lied to by our government as to the motivations behind this war. I wish it had never happened and I hope it ends and the authority of the UN is not sidestepped again. But, that doesn’t mean I don’t have sympathy for each individual soldier. They are still human beings, doing a job I would not do myself, and while I may disagree with the orders that put them there they are honorably discharging their agreements to follow their commanders and serve our interests as determined by the administration. They deserve respect as individuals and if I can alleviate some of the discomforts they are suffering by sending them goodies/eyedrops/lotions/nerf footballs(no kidding, all of these things were on the list) then I’m all for it. They didn’t ask to be there, but they didn’t shirk from fulfilling their duty. I honor that. I just would never sign up for the duties they signed up for myself.”
Enjoy,
Steven
Very well said. But see, you’re actually DOING something, Mtgman… what I can’t comprehend is the nebulous notion of troop-support removed from actually sending letters or care packages to troops. That is, I can’t even comprehend what it means, and I certainly can’t comprehend being accused of anti-Americanism because I don’t do it.
There was a similar thread in the Pit a few days ago from someone who was annoyed that people were criticizing him for not “supporting the troops” due to his anti-war stance.
As I said in that thread, “Support the Troops” is a euphemism for supporting the war in Iraq. Few people are brazen enough to start a “pro-war” rally, so they have “support the troops” rallies, instead. It sounds bad if you’re not “supporting the troops”, after all.
It doesn’t matter, to some people, how many care packages you send, letters you write, etc. If you’re not supporting George W. Bush, you’re not “supporting the troops”.
I think the best way to support the troops is to be informed of whats going on over in Iraq, and to have the common sense to seperate the people at the bottom from the people at the top.
Tamex: I saw that, and I agree with you. One of the reasons I started this new thread, actually, was because unlike clayton_e, I don’t really mind if people say I’m not supporting the troops, because I’m not.
Tamex pretty nice sig. Out of curiosity how did you do that?
Yes, but the thing I’m doing is supporting them as human beings who were forced by their duty into a horrid situation. I don’t support their actions and I wish to hell that the administration had done this differently. Still, I recognize that there is a human being on both ends of that M-16 and it is the wacky power structure of our world that put them both there when they’d almost both certainly rather be somewhere else doing something else.
Enjoy,
Steven
World Eater, Tamex’s sig is a single character, the character ‘A’, from the Wingdings font. Each viewer has to have the Wingdings font installed in IE to see it though. To use specific fonts you can use the [**FONT=] tag in vB Code. His sig, if you wanted it yourself, would read [FONT=Wingdings]A[/FONT] The SDMB will turn it into the HTML <FONT> tag like so <font face=“Wingdings”>A</font> and your browser will display the appropriate symbol. I actually think he also changed the size, because Wingdings aren’t usually that large. Looks like six point from the HTML code I see when I hit “View Source” on this page, but I’m not sure if that was his doing or the SDMB’s.
Interestingly enough the Wingdings font has caused some controversy over the years including accusations that Microsoft was involved in the attacks on NYC 9/11/01 and/or that they’re anti-semitic. I kid you not.
Thanks, I remember the wingdings 9/11 thing. Some people have some time on their hands.
To quote the title of another pit thread:
to the tune of Ode to Joy Asshats, asshats, asshats, asshats, asshats, asshats, a-asshats…
Well, you can also think of the role that “magical thinking” plays in all this–the notion that your thoughts can somehow control external events. If you think good thoughts about the troops and the war, then things will go well, and if you think negative thoughts (or even nothing particular at all), then things will go poorly. It’s a pervalent belief in human societies, responsible for superstitions and religions and rituals of all sorts. If you aren’t thinking the right thoughts or performing the proper rituals, bad things will happen. Well, that’s the theory, anyway.
Remember, our president is a very religious man.
(Yes, Mtgman, it’s font size 6. At the default size, the symbol is illegible. And I’m not a “he”. Just so you know ;).)
:smack: You know, I anguished over that. As I was composing that last line I though “Crap! What if Tamex is a woman?” I looked back through and subbing [b]Tamex[/b], or the appropriate posessive form, for instances of masculine pronouns was going to be a headache and I decided to take my chances. Sorry my laziness misrepresented you. Given my horrid memory for such things I’ll surely do it again, so I apologize in advance for any future confusions.
For the curious this means Tamex’s sig reads thusly.
[SIZE=6][FONT=Wingdings]A[/FONT][/SIZE]
And produces A
Enjoy,
Steven