# Go on the offensive \[against North Korea\]... agree or disagree and why? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [January 24, 2013, 5:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/go-on-the-offensive-against-north-korea-agree-or-disagree-and-why/648236 "2013-01-24T17:47:15Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 5\ **Page:** 9
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2013, 8:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/go-on-the-offensive-against-north-korea-agree-or-disagree-and-why/648236/161 "2013-02-15T20:34:38Z")
> [@Glazer](#): > > Soon we will have airborne lasers that can take out artillery shells in flight. I suppose if you told us the details, then you’d have to kill us. 🆒 But North Korea has at least 10,000 artillery pieces. Could we defend Seoul against a full barrage? ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2013, 11:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/go-on-the-offensive-against-north-korea-agree-or-disagree-and-why/648236/162 "2013-02-15T23:51:55Z")
> [@YogSosoth](#): > > That’s just it, its an excuse. You evidently are unaware that the North Korean people in general are unaware of what really happened. Heck, they’re generally unaware of what’s really happening right now. And that’s because their government intentionally keeps them in the dark. You and I know that the US and South Korea are not going to run into and occupy North Korea just for giggles. The thing is, even though the top levels of the North Korean government surely knows that, too, they’ve got their population convinced otherwise. > [@](#): > > 60 years ago they may have had some grand delusions about winning, but now they are the butt of the world’s jokes and employ dwarves as soldiers. See above about the general population. > [@](#): > > Now they know that the lie started so long ago wouldn’t hold up, that in a war they’d be pasted in a week, so in order to prevent that, they built something that makes it almost not worthwhile for SK or the US to invade them. There’s something already making it not worthwhile to invade North Korea. It’s called China. Well, there’s also the whole bit about the North Korean population in general being convinced that the US is the most evil thing on Earth and an invasion won’t be a friendly walk in the park. > [@](#): > > By defense, I believe that they will not initiate a nuclear attack. They keep it around, brandish it as a weapon, and threaten to use it to wring more concessions out of negotiators. But they know that the first explosion of a North Korean nuke outside their borders will mean the entire country destroyed. They will not use a nuke for offense I’m certain North Korea will never actually launch a nuclear attack. Barring some (other) lunatic taking over the place, the most they’re going to do is their utmost to prove they have bombs and they’ll also continue testing missiles to show they have missiles that can fly far enough to generate a fair amount of concern in other countries. They’ll then use that concern to manipulate other countries for food, oil, and other necessities. > [@](#): > > By that logic, it should be much EASIER to use a nuke. All Kim has to do is give the word and his generals will fall in line. The stereotype has always been that in a democracy, things can’t get done. Huh? What? North Korea’s government has always told its people one thing while making a different pitch in international politics. The top level of the North Korean government certainly knows that it cannot win another fighting war with the UNC. Going on the offensive and losing that war would prove it to their people, but at an incredible loss to both South _and_ North Korea. Keeping their people in the dark about just about everything seems to be working as far as keeping the top level guys in power. Why change what works? > [@](#): > > I think basic humanity requires we give them some small concessions when they brandish their weapon. Do you happen to know what the real death knell for the Sunshine Policy was? > [@](#): > > Its not like I’m saying to give them all the food in SK. Granted, I don’t think that will change NK’s mind, but so what? Even if a tiny percentage trickles down to the innocent citizens of NK, and its not a burden to us, I think we should give them the foodstuffs they ask for Uh, no. Give them the foodstuffs if they adhere to the agreements they’ve already made for said foodstuffs. Give them nothing if they continue to launch attacks on South Korea. > [@](#): > > Does it matter? In a war, surely more civilians, perhaps not on a plane, would die. Yes, it matters. There’s a difference between terrorism and combat. > [@](#): > > If we’re measuring it by the amount of deaths so far in 60 years, and I’m sure you posted your list in a way to make it seem like a lot instead of having simply one number of how many deaths NK’s caused outside their borders in 60 years, then that’s the number most relevant to the discussion. You’re incorrect. I posted my list of what terroristic things North Korea does to show that they are a terroristic state. What’s most relevant to the discussion is the methods North Korea employs. > [@](#): > > The only formula I’m concerned about is how much suffering NK has caused outside its borders to us, and how much more suffering we would have to endure to put an end to NK through war. By us, I’d hope you include the people we have a treaty obligation to. > [@](#): > > If the ratio is too skewed in favor of NK, then the rational option is to do nothing. If it is believed that war would tilt that favor to us, or that NK is getting dangerously close to evening up the odds, then by all means, attack them. Never going to happen so long as China has their treaty obligation to North Korea. > [@](#): > > I’m not saying we should never attack NK or take it seriously. Only that right now, its a toothless paper tiger and has done relatively little harm to us compared to what it can do in a war. Its not worth it It’s actually not a paper tiger. It’s a dangerous place as it’s proved time and again. > [@](#): > > Thank you, I’m glad you asked. How about we keep the stalemate and wait for them to crumble? Their model is unsustainable. When even the leadership feels the pinch of sanctions, they will work out a deal to save themselves and leave the rest of the country to international monitors. Most likely, they will try to retire to China as dignitaries and live out the rest of their life in comfort. Refugees will stream from NK and international monitors will stream in to try to keep the peace and set up a workable government. It won’t be pretty, but it is a much better choice than attacking a nuclear armed nation that may or may not be supported by China That’s the whole idea. Let’s keep the stalemate going because attacking North Korea is not workable. > [@](#): > > What I don’t believe will happen is NK, out of desperation or some imagined slight, launch nukes at Seoul and open up their artillery on SK. In such a case of unprovoked attack, and I know China would be working furiously behind the scenes to get them to not initiate the strike, even China will not support them, and SK and the US will strike back with such fury that NK leadership will be scattered within a week or two. > > Those are the two most realistic scenarios I see happening. That is why I do not favor any attack on NK and continued tolerance of their impetuous douchebaggery (and occasional murder) North Korea’s already done the unprovoked attack. It did it 60 years ago and it’s done it recently. They know that continuing the stalemate is in the best interests of China, the US, and South Korea. What they haven’t done is a complete repeat of the all-out attack of 60 years ago and they’re not likely to do that. The measured unprovoked attacks they’ve been employing since the signing of the Armistice are pretty much designed to make China, the US, and South Korea sit up and pay attention to them. But they’re still terroristic attacks. But, if someone is fool enough to invade them, their top level guys just very well may decide to go down fighting. There is, after all, the whole issue of the prison camps in North Korea and what their government’s done to so many of its own people. Maybe the leadership prefers going out in a blaze of glory than getting tried for crimes against humanity. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2013, 11:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/go-on-the-offensive-against-north-korea-agree-or-disagree-and-why/648236/163 "2013-02-15T23:53:04Z")
> [@Monty](#): > > You evidently are unaware that the North Korean people in general are unaware of what really happened. Heck, they’re generally unaware of what’s really happening right now. And that’s because their government intentionally keeps them in the dark. \*rimshot ---
**Author:** ![Siam\_Sam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d78d45/32.png) [@Siam\_Sam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siam_Sam)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2013, 1:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/go-on-the-offensive-against-north-korea-agree-or-disagree-and-why/648236/164 "2013-02-16T01:14:36Z")
BBC’s latest word is that increased activity has been detected at one of NK’s rocket-launching faclities. And it’s believed they’re working on streamlined rockets. Hmmm. Streamlined rockets. Smaller nuclear warheads. Hmmm. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2013, 1:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/go-on-the-offensive-against-north-korea-agree-or-disagree-and-why/648236/165 "2013-02-16T01:25:49Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > \*rimshot Good one. I completely missed the pun there. Or is it merely a sad commentary on living conditions in NK? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/go-on-the-offensive-against-north-korea-agree-or-disagree-and-why/648236.md?page=8)