[from link]Punggye-ri, the site of the previous tests[/from link]
Thanks!
Of course, though, what XT is saying does make the most sense, but I don’t think I’d necessarily be AGAINST striking first here.
They didn’t say that.
With any kind of strike, Nobody knows how bad things MAY turn out the only thing we know is that they will turn out BAD, a bad like we may have never seen before. The thing is North Korea is eager to see that shit happen and I don’t blame them. Look at their situation what do they have going for them, what else do they have to lose, this might be suicide by U.N. for them. We are not in that situation and we’re not crazy. We have a lot to lose (even if it’s just one major city WIPED OUT). They don’t even have that to lose, Kim Jong-un just like his pops could care less how many of his people get wiped out, it’s for the noble cause. and when you have a lot to lose that’s always motivation and incentive to keep your cool.
Whatever the case, any decision of the US military’s continued presence in South Korea rests with the South Korean government. While the US military economic support from the US may be minimal, in the greater scheme of things the active US presence continues to carry more weight than any prime real estate values in Seoul.
Cite? Because their history of doing provocative crap and then making concessions in return for aid or relaxed sanctions says otherwise.
I don’t know why the US is making a big deal out of this North Korea thing :oit not like they can do harm to the US or the hit any US city .
The army and technology in North Korea is too crude to do any thing.
That’s from the CNN article from the original OP. upcoming all out action… target the United Stated…, I’m figuring their upcoming all out action involves nukes.
The North Koreans have nothing to gain and everything to loose by launching a nuclear missile at the US. Their capacity to do this in the first place is way overstated. The best policy to to continue as we have with continued sanctions and pressing the mute button when their Un-Leader shows up.
They have not demonstrated any re-entry technology, so any weapons they launch will stay in orbit, or burn up on re-entry.
I figure it involves a lot of empty rhetoric.
If the want to go out in a suicidal blaze of glory they can do it now with their massed artillery. If they were that suicidal they’d have done it long before now. If they launch a nuke at us they destroy themselves; I see no evidence that they are too crazy to realize that.
I’m willing to bet that the #1 priority for all Western intelligence agencies is to determine just how crazy this Kim Jong-un character is, and perhaps silently take him out if he’s a genuine madman. Kim Jong-il was a different story – he was obsessed with his Cult of Personality, and all his sabre-rattling and nuclear posturing was little more than a giant bluff. In fact, it wouldn’t surprise me if Jong-il’s death by natural causes created a major intelligence crisis, since the DPRK regime changed from someone predictable (albeit annoying) to someone who’s real intentions are unknown.
Look at their situation: their political leaders are in firm control of the country and can get other countries to dance to their tune by playing crazy every now and again
What do they have to lose? Their political leaders are well fed, wealthy (by North Korean standards) and receive tons of graft/gifts from the Kim family to maintain their support. These include imported Western luxury goods, like cars, electronics, booze, clothing, etc. They lose all of that if they commit suicide by UN.
You seem to be conflating the condition of the average North Korean peasant with those of the leaders. The leaders have plenty to lose and have performed this dance before with good results. They aren’t starving and the people aren’t close to revolt. There’s no good reason to throw that away.
And if they really DID want to throw it away, they’ve been in a position to devastate Seoul with conventional weapons for decades. They can kill millions of people whenever they want without nukes.
Hey, I’m not the one positing strange geopolitical motives for South Korean government announcements that didn’t even exist.
Their play has been straightforward so far.
Announcing that they plan to nuke the U.S. without doing it is even stupider than just nuking the U.S. That’s like saying “Hey, guys, if you don’t attack us now we might attack you later… if we can figure out how… because you know we can’t do it right now.” Here is a more complete quote:
Using the word “target” and calling the U.S. “the sworn enemy of the Korean people” is provocative, but they don’t say they plan to attack the U.S. or are getting ready to launch some nuclear weapons. They say they will keep launching satellites and rockets and that they’re preparing a more powerful nuclear test, and that their actions “will target against the U.S.” They are saying more broadly that they are taking a stand against the U.S. by developing their nuclear program and their defense capabilities. It is written to sound like more of a threat than it is.
As far as “suicide by the UN” goes: the country’s situation was arguably worse during the famine in the '90s, and more recently, Kim Jong-Il was in deteriorating health for several years before he died. If the country ever became suicidal, you would think either of those would be the time. Not now, when a guy who is around 30 years old just took charge and is presumably looking to remain in power for 40 or 50 years.
I’m not talking Kurt Kobain Suicide, I’m talking Columbine suicide. I shouldn’t have said suicide what I mean is that NK is waiting for their ideal moment to risk everything even themselves and the ideal moment for them is once they can successfully deploy a nuclear weapon. I realize that we all realize they will destroy themselves if they attack anyone first, but I’m not so sure they realize that. NK May firmly believe that they have no chance of losing (maybe the Korean war left them with an invincibility complex, they believe they never lost?).
Yes, they do.
You seem to be under the belief North Korea is run by literally insane people. That’s obviously not the case.
The leaders are sly. The cabal in charge of North Korea has kept themselves safely in power, with little chance of being ousted, for decades. They spend lavishly on themselves while starving their citizens with no legitimate fear of revolt. And they play their few allies and many enemies off each other to the point nobody wants to deal with them. Among world leaders, their safety is better than just about anybody else. They don’t have to worry about revolts or external enemies.
Every few years, they act crazy, make demands, and get some concessions from the US/UN. If the UN has always backed down, it is a perfectly rational response to continue to play the part of crazed madmen on the international stage. Why risk that by doing something legitimately insane?
Because I don’t believe them. I don’t believe they will act against the US in any way that will make us obliterate them. I don’t think they are as stupid as people say they are, nor as crazy, nor as desperate. Whenever I hear that we should attack so and so because they have, or will have WMDs, I think those people are fools. Using one is tantamount to suicide. And suicide, while an epidemic on an individual basis, would be implausible on a scale like that. So I am against taking military action against NK. I think anyone who says they are 1 year, 6 months, or 1 month away from a nuke, away from the capability of attack us is trying to provoke us into a war. I will not believe them, I will not listen to them, I will not give them the benefit of the doubt. The only way I’d believe an entire country would be crazy enough to actually attack the US with a nuke is when it actually happens.
I don’t either. But there has to be some middle ground between saying we shouldn’t attack them now over some vague saber-ratting and saying we should only do something if the drop a nuclear bomb on some people.
…is very, very slow.
I think that’s probably a little too convenient.
Do you think they are just bluffing about reunification as well? Do you see everything they do as rational?
I don’t believe that NK will just arbitrarily go to war with the US either. But I do believe that they want reunification with the South, and that they are teetering on the edge of complete collapse. And that basically, they are irrational. If they feel like it’s slipping away, that they are losing control, then there is a chance that they could decide to push the button on a war with the South, to take their chances and roll the dice and see what happens. If they back themselves into a corner with their own population wrt their own heated rhetoric and propaganda, then I could see them pressing the button on a war with the South and rolling the dice, etc etc. There are a number of permutations where the North could definitely lash out at the South, at Japan or at the US…or at just about anyone they could lash out at. They have walked the tightrope of war with the South for literally decades, have pushed when it wasn’t rational to push. So far the balloon hasn’t gone up, and China has been able to keep them leashed…but that state of affairs doesn’t have to exist forever.
I don’t believe that the US should ‘Go on the offensive’ and pre-emptively attack the North, but I think that war is inevitable between the North and anyone else within their zone of destruction. It’s going to happen, one way or another. Either the whole house of cards collapses and there is a civil war in the North that is contained in the North, perhaps the South and China, or the North will cross the line and an all out war will happen. It’s only a matter of time, and it’s going to be serious ugly when it does happen. The current regime isn’t going to go down easily when things finally go completely tits up, and they are so close to the logistical edge that when anything happens a large part of their population is going to die just from starvation, being seriously malnourished already.
A secret night nuclear strike on north korea and its easy from there on…