# Go To Hell Eliot Spitzer, Cigarette Whiners. **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [March 13, 2006, 10:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/go-to-hell-eliot-spitzer-cigarette-whiners/348238 "2006-03-13T22:26:41Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2006, 11:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/go-to-hell-eliot-spitzer-cigarette-whiners/348238/21 "2006-03-13T23:25:07Z")
> [@jjimm](#): > > **Marley23** , you have a good point, but is that the reason the tax exists? No, I’m sure it’s just the reason the tax is politically expediet. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2006, 11:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/go-to-hell-eliot-spitzer-cigarette-whiners/348238/22 "2006-03-13T23:28:00Z")
What kills me about smokers bitching about cigarette taxes is this whole other group of smokers _demanding_ that their inhalant of choice be taxed, at whatever rate the government wants, so that they can buy it legally. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2006, 11:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/go-to-hell-eliot-spitzer-cigarette-whiners/348238/23 "2006-03-13T23:32:38Z")
> [@SomeOneMusical](#): > > They are not taxing cigarettes to protect you from second hand smoke, they are taxing them to make up for shortfalls created because they are inept money handlers. Of course. But inept or not, they’ll always take more money. I think it’s more a case of “because they can.” > [@](#): > > They can do what they do for anything else they deem bad for us, ban them. They don’t because they want the fucking money. Well duh. You think this is insight? Plenty of things are taxed in this manner. > [@](#): > > The day enough people stop smoking to make it profitible for them to tax, is the day they ban it. Not sure what this means. Taxes on cigarettes seem to be going up as the number of smokers goes down. My reservations about sin taxing aside, I have to say- if you’re willing to drive 12 hours to get cigarettes, you’re an idiot. You may have a right to make idiotic decisions, but I’m not sure how mad you can get at the government about it. ---
**Author:** ![Binarydrone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/3da27b/32.png) [@Binarydrone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Binarydrone)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2006, 11:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/go-to-hell-eliot-spitzer-cigarette-whiners/348238/24 "2006-03-13T23:35:30Z")
I think that what most smokers are bitching about is the _scale_ of the tax. I would be cool with them being taxed in at least some proportion to the way that other items are taxed, but they really are going too far. Failing that, if the argument is that they have to tax them so much because of the healthcare burden then 100% of the taxed that are generated from the sale of tobacco should be pumped into the healthcare system rather then dumped in the general fund. ---
**Author:** ![Lightnin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lightnin/32/180_2.png) [@Lightnin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lightnin)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2006, 11:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/go-to-hell-eliot-spitzer-cigarette-whiners/348238/25 "2006-03-13T23:42:14Z")
Let’s see… there’s an entire _industry_ which makes money off of keeping you addicted to a substance which will, ultimately, give you cancer and kill you… and you’re pissed at the people who want to tax that industry?! I think you need to re-examine your priorities. ---
**Author:** ![Binarydrone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/3da27b/32.png) [@Binarydrone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Binarydrone)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2006, 11:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/go-to-hell-eliot-spitzer-cigarette-whiners/348238/26 "2006-03-13T23:44:05Z")
> [@Lightnin'](#): > > Let’s see… there’s an entire _industry_ which makes money off of keeping you addicted to a substance which will, ultimately, give you cancer and kill you… and you’re pissed at the people who want to tax that industry?! > > I think you need to re-examine your priorities. They are taxing the addicts. ---
**Author:** ![SomeOneMusical](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecae2f/32.png) [@SomeOneMusical](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SomeOneMusical)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2006, 11:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/go-to-hell-eliot-spitzer-cigarette-whiners/348238/27 "2006-03-13T23:48:44Z")
> [@Binarydrone](#): > > I think that what most smokers are bitching about is the _scale_ of the tax. I would be cool with them being taxed in at least some proportion to the way that other items are taxed, but they really are going too far. > > Failing that, if the argument is that they have to tax them so much because of the healthcare burden then 100% of the taxed that are generated from the sale of tobacco should be pumped into the healthcare system rather then dumped in the general fund. Exactly. If you’re justifying me paying these taxes for “health care expenses” then fucking use them there. Not fixing roads and other bullshit. Just wait, right now we are being pointed at by those that enjoy a McFatty meal, and when they get a 5$ per meal tax attached they will be looking for sympathy and I will point and laugh right back at you. > [@](#): > > Binarydrone > Given the extreme hot button nature of this issue, I do feel like I need to add a disclaimer to the question that I am about to ask. So, going in, can anyone that feels like answering this keep in mind that I am just looking for information? > > Simply stated, I don’t “get” how your weight can ever be anything but a calorie input/output issue. Is it the case that you can have a glandular condition that means that you burn calories so slowly that even if you eat the bear minimum amount of food to get the vitamins and minerals that you need you still gain weight? Is that the deal? You won’t get much of an answer here, but you’re right. I don’t even need to be a doctor to know that. It’s common sense, you cannot gain weight from the fucking air. But don’t worry PC dictates defend obesity, hang smokers, so whatever. When the tide turns against the obese, they will be looking for help like smokers are now. ---
**Author:** ![SomeOneMusical](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecae2f/32.png) [@SomeOneMusical](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SomeOneMusical)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2006, 11:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/go-to-hell-eliot-spitzer-cigarette-whiners/348238/28 "2006-03-13T23:51:42Z")
> [@Lightnin'](#): > > Let’s see… there’s an entire _industry_ which makes money off of keeping you addicted to a substance which will, ultimately, give you cancer and kill you… and you’re pissed at the people who want to tax that industry?! > > I think you need to re-examine your priorities. And almost the entire fat food industry makes money on keeping fat people eating fatty food substances which will, ultimately, give them diabetes, heart disease, and kill them… On a more direct reply I should not that many people live into there 80’s 90’s 100’s that smoke. So your “ultimately” should be changed to “sometimes” and then if you die from a smoking related disease in those ripe old ages WHO GIVES A FUCK. ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2006, 12:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/go-to-hell-eliot-spitzer-cigarette-whiners/348238/29 "2006-03-14T00:09:44Z")
> [@saoirse](#): > > Excuse me do you have cites for this assertion? I have a couple [to the](http://www.straightdope.com/columns/000707.html) [contrary.](http://www.straightdope.com/columns/000602.html) Much as I’d like to think that a couple of Cecil columns from 2000 are authoritative, scientific research continues to accumulate on this subject, and the weight of the evidence is clearly that secondhand smoke has a significant negative impact on non-smokers. For heart disease: [Cite.](http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=pubmed&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=15911719&query_hl=6&itool=pubmed_docsum) See also Raupach et al in the Feb. 2006 issue of the European Heart Journal for more. A PubMed search on secondhand smoke will give you numerous articles to read concerning secondhand smoke and increased cancer risk in non-smokers exposed to it. For starters, try Brennan et al in the International Journal of Cancer, 3/04. Other negative effects of secondhand smoke (including impact on asthmatics and others with chronic pulmonary disorders) has been discussed on the Dope before and further citations can be found via an SDMB search on this topic. ---
**Author:** ![lissener](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lissener/32/6139_2.png) [@lissener](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lissener)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2006, 12:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/go-to-hell-eliot-spitzer-cigarette-whiners/348238/30 "2006-03-14T00:50:41Z")
Aw, how cute. SomeOneMusical thinks we care about him! He thinks anti-smokers are anti-smokers out of an overdeveloped sense of sympathy for his lungs! That is so fucking cute! Dude, snap out of it. We anti-smokers are just as selfish as you are. It’s my air I’m protecting, not your lungs. I shouldn’t have to make any extra effort to find a place where your smoke is not polluting my breathable air. ALL the effort should be yours. So it’s not parallel to obesity at all; it’s not people concerned about what you do to your own body. It’s people pissed off about having to budget for drycleaning bills as part of going to a bar or concert because somebody ELSE wants to smoke. I have yet to be personally affected by a fat person, but some smokers are obnoxious assholes who think the air is theirs to pollute. ---
**Author:** ![NDP](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ndp/32/55_2.png) [@NDP](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NDP)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2006, 12:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/go-to-hell-eliot-spitzer-cigarette-whiners/348238/31 "2006-03-14T00:51:48Z")
> [@Lightnin'](#): > > Let’s see… there’s an entire industry which makes money off of keeping you addicted to a substance which will, ultimately, give you cancer and kill you… and you’re pissed at the people who want to tax that industry?! I think you need to re-examine your priorities. > [@SomeOneMusical](#): > > And almost the entire fat food industry makes money on keeping fat people eating fatty food substances which will, ultimately, give them diabetes, heart disease, and kill them… You fail to address a key word in Lightnin’s reply: _addictive_. Cigarettes are a vehicle for nicotine–an unquestionably addictive substance. The tobacco industry also took steps to increase the amount of nicotine in their products just to make sure smokers kept coming using them until their lungs gave out. And, if that weren’t bad enough, the industry deliberately ignored for many years the evidence about the health hazards cigarettes posed and _even lied under oath in Congress about it_. Fatty foods, for all the problems they cause, are not addictive like tobacco is. So far there’s been no evidence that there’s something like nicotine that makes it difficult for people to stop consuming them. ---
**Author:** ![SomeOneMusical](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecae2f/32.png) [@SomeOneMusical](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SomeOneMusical)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2006, 1:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/go-to-hell-eliot-spitzer-cigarette-whiners/348238/32 "2006-03-14T01:08:21Z")
> [@lissener](#): > > Aw, how cute. SomeOneMusical thinks we care about him! He thinks anti-smokers are anti-smokers out of an overdeveloped sense of sympathy for his lungs! That is so fucking cute! > > Dude, snap out of it. We anti-smokers are just as selfish as you are. It’s my air I’m protecting, not your lungs. I shouldn’t have to make any extra effort to find a place where your smoke is not polluting my breathable air. ALL the effort should be yours. > > So it’s not parallel to obesity at all; it’s not people concerned about what you do to your own body. It’s people pissed off about having to budget for drycleaning bills as part of going to a bar or concert because somebody ELSE wants to smoke. I have yet to be personally affected by a fat person, but some smokers are obnoxious assholes who think the air is theirs to pollute. You must be obese to attack smokers, justifying your own errors by punishing others for theirs. I bet the carbon monoxide and other pollutents that I breathe thanks to your car don’t bother you that much do they? Or the pollution that McFatties and other places puts out to fry your grease laden meals in eh? I have never been personally affected by a smoker, but I have been by a fat person. Ever try to squeeze into public transportation seats when a fat person takes up your seat and theres? Ever have to pay the drycleaning bill because someone so fat they cannot wipe there ass sits next to you? Ever see the medical costs increased because of the obesity problems as well as the smokers? Some fat people are obnoxious assholes that think there choice of life is better then a smokers. Yeah that was meant to be fucking mean, because you are attacking me for attacking a tax on something that was not designed to help you with any of those problems you bitched about. It was purely a money grab. > [@](#): > > NDP > You fail to address a key word in Lightnin’s reply: addictive. Cigarettes are a vehicle for nicotine–an unquestionably addictive substance. The tobacco industry also took steps to increase the amount of nicotine in their products just to make sure smokers kept coming using them until their lungs gave out. And, if that weren’t bad enough, the industry deliberately ignored for many years the evidence about the health hazards cigarettes posed and even lied under oath in Congress about it. Fatty foods, for all the problems they cause, are not addictive like tobacco is. So far there’s been no evidence that there’s something like nicotine that makes it difficult for people to stop consuming them. And what does that tell me? FUCKING nothing, is that the habit of this board to try to attack something that doesn’t even fit into the argument to score points? If anything the fact that is is a LEGAL ADDICTIVE substance shows the government are being total assholes about it, by taxing something to force the countries citizens to pay another fucking tax. Lets legalize heroin and tax it, yes its deadly but imagine the revenue because the poor fuckers cannot quit. And regardless of the causes, the effects are more drastic on the healthcare system for the obese. End of the fucking story. If you tax to protect health and help pay for healthcare then fat tax as well. ---
**Author:** ![Aserrann](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/82dd89/32.png) [@Aserrann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aserrann)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2006, 1:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/go-to-hell-eliot-spitzer-cigarette-whiners/348238/33 "2006-03-14T01:24:58Z")
Another problem with the idea of a “fat tax” is that not everyone who eats fast food is fat, but i would guess there are rather few who regularly buy cigarettes who arn’t addicted. I buy fast food a couple times a month, when i’m late or something, and thats not much of a health risk. ---
**Author:** ![Jurhael](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/cab0a1/32.png) [@Jurhael](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jurhael)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2006, 1:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/go-to-hell-eliot-spitzer-cigarette-whiners/348238/34 "2006-03-14T01:33:42Z")
Obesity is a consequence that begets other consequences. No one says, “Oh, yea. I’m going to be obese” or “Sure, I’ll be obese.” HOWEVER, people can choose to do things that can cause obesity(disorders aside). I think that’s what it’s meant when people “Obesity is a choice”. You simply choose the lifestyle where obesity could easily be a result. The thing is, I’m a bit on the chubby side, but I tend to sympathize with smokers because I think the stigma is ridiculous. I can see taxing them, but I think taxing 476712135% is just ridiculous. And I was under the impression that “Mcfatty Foods” already were taxed. Not that it ever stopped me. Heh. ---
**Author:** ![Lightnin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lightnin/32/180_2.png) [@Lightnin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lightnin)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2006, 1:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/go-to-hell-eliot-spitzer-cigarette-whiners/348238/35 "2006-03-14T01:41:35Z")
> [@Binarydrone](#): > > They are taxing the addicts. Can you propose a way to tax the companies in which the tax won’t ultimately be passed onto the customers? ---
**Author:** ![RyJae](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/9d8465/32.png) [@RyJae](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RyJae)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2006, 2:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/go-to-hell-eliot-spitzer-cigarette-whiners/348238/36 "2006-03-14T02:31:22Z")
> [@Lightnin'](#): > > Can you propose a way to tax the companies in which the tax won’t ultimately be passed onto the customers? Actually I thought when the big settlement went to the States a few years back they should of mandated a set price on the cigarettes as to punish the companies not the consumers. But after agreeing to pay the billions they just raised the rates and well didn’t punish the company at all. ---
**Author:** ![yBeayf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/e274bd/32.png) [@yBeayf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yBeayf)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2006, 3:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/go-to-hell-eliot-spitzer-cigarette-whiners/348238/37 "2006-03-14T03:28:11Z")
> [@](#): > > We anti-smokers are just as selfish as you are. It’s my air I’m protecting, not your lungs. I shouldn’t have to make any extra effort to find a place where your smoke is not polluting my breathable air. ALL the effort should be yours. Well, yes, you should. If you and I are in a club that permits smoking, and I smoke, and the owners and operators of the club have no problem with it, then it’s _your_ problem, and your responsibility to go somewhere the smoke doesn’t bother you. Your (moral, not necessarily legal) right to a smoke-free environment ends the moment it interferes with someone else’s use of their own property. ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2006, 3:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/go-to-hell-eliot-spitzer-cigarette-whiners/348238/38 "2006-03-14T03:33:27Z")
> [@SomeOneMusical](#): > > I am a firm believer that calories in/calories out matter. No one on a deserted island with just water and minimal food will gain weight. [You sure about that](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MOMO_syndrome)? ---
**Author:** ![lissener](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lissener/32/6139_2.png) [@lissener](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lissener)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2006, 6:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/go-to-hell-eliot-spitzer-cigarette-whiners/348238/39 "2006-03-14T06:39:04Z")
> [@SomeOneMusical](#): > > You must be obese to attack smokers . . . Ever have to pay the drycleaning bill because someone so fat they cannot wipe there ass sits next to you? . . . Ah, so you’re gonna go with the screaming batso nutshit insane approach. Awesome. Dude, you are so making me rethink smokers. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2006, 6:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/go-to-hell-eliot-spitzer-cigarette-whiners/348238/40 "2006-03-14T06:40:21Z")
> [@lissener](#): > > Dude, you are so making me rethink smokers. I’m starting to wonder what else he smokes. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/go-to-hell-eliot-spitzer-cigarette-whiners/348238.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/go-to-hell-eliot-spitzer-cigarette-whiners/348238.md?page=3)