# Go To Hell Senator kennedy! **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [February 25, 2006, 4:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/go-to-hell-senator-kennedy/346074 "2006-02-25T16:19:02Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![ralph124c](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/8797f3/32.png) [@ralph124c](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ralph124c)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2006, 4:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/go-to-hell-senator-kennedy/346074/1 "2006-02-25T16:19:02Z")
Well Senator Beanbrain has done it again! He has gotten his senate pals to kill the cape Cod/Nantucket Sound Wind Power project-and an especially sneaky manner! Cape Cod , MA electricity customers pay some of the highest electricity rates in the country (the electricity is generated from oil-fired power plants). Kennedy didn’t want windmills spoling his rich friend’s ocean views-but he has to aoppear to be a progressive. So he got his senate pals to alter a bill, such that no electric power windmills could be sited within 10 miles of a ferry route 9the Hyannis-Nantucket ferry). Way to go Senator! I only hope your constituents (who you have crewed over countless times) will elect somebody else come November! But it is truly beautiful how you combine the finest liberal hypocrisy with a profound contempt for working class people! Oh, and happy 74th birthday! Only in Massachusetts! ---
**Author:** ![Stephe96](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Stephe96](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stephe96)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2006, 4:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/go-to-hell-senator-kennedy/346074/2 "2006-02-25T16:24:41Z")
You honestly think that when these rich liberals talk about people looking for alternative energy sources they’re talking about _themselves_? Please. Windfarms are fine and all for the lower classes, but they’re not about to disrupt _their_ precious Hyannisport views! Walter Cronkite is another famous Martha’s Vineyard lib who was quite vocal a few years ago about not putting windfarms anywhere near _his_ ocean-view spread! Total hypocrites. By the way, Teddy earned his ticket to hell quite a few years ago. ---
**Author:** ![Chefguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chefguy/32/138_2.png) [@Chefguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chefguy)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2006, 4:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/go-to-hell-senator-kennedy/346074/3 "2006-02-25T16:45:45Z")
> [@Stephe96](#): > > By the way, Teddy earned his ticket to hell quite a few years ago. Wow: from windmills to Mary Jo in only two posts. That’s got to be a record of some sort. ---
**Author:** ![Lissa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/85f322/32.png) [@Lissa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lissa)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2006, 5:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/go-to-hell-senator-kennedy/346074/4 "2006-02-25T17:04:09Z")
Hmm . . . I guess I don’t understand. Can someone post an image of one of these farms? Whenever I’ve seen wind-generators, I’ve always thought they were kind of pretty. They’re sleek and slim-- sort of graceful-looking. I wouldn’t mind having one in my view. ---
**Author:** ![hajario](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hajario/32/171_2.png) [@hajario](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hajario)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2006, 5:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/go-to-hell-senator-kennedy/346074/5 "2006-02-25T17:08:27Z")
> [@Lissa](#): > > They’re sleek and slim-- sort of graceful-looking. I wouldn’t mind having one in my view. I am very much in favor of wind power as a source of energy but they are loud and arguably can cause a lot of damage to waterfowl. Also, there probably would be a shitload of them in your view, not just one or two. That said, I do not know the details of this particular proposed plan. ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2006, 5:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/go-to-hell-senator-kennedy/346074/6 "2006-02-25T17:08:41Z")
> [@ralph124c](#): > > Kennedy didn’t want windmills spoling his rich friend’s ocean views-but he has to aoppear to be a progressive. So he got his senate pals to alter a bill, such that no electric power windmills could be sited within 10 miles of a ferry route 9the Hyannis-Nantucket ferry). Way to go Senator! I only hope your constituents (who you have crewed over countless times) will elect somebody else come November! But it is truly beautiful how you combine the finest liberal hypocrisy with a profound contempt for working class people! Dude, there’s a bit of spittle on your chin. You might want to wipe it off. Some of you might remember that **ralph124c** started a [thread](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=196339) about this issue a couple of years ago, and again his schtick was that eeeeeeevil libruhls were to blame for all of this. Those with cooler heads pointed out that there were also undoubtedly conservatives living on Cape Cod who would also be happy to kill this bill, even while conceding that Massachusetts, and Cape Cod, is predominantly liberal, or at least Democratic. Anyway, for what it’s worth, i actually agreed with his criticism of those who opposed the Cape Cod wind farm. I think that this sort of NIMBYism means that nothing will ever change in terms of new, renewable energy sources. But of course, in his rush blame eeeeeeevil libruhls for everything, **ralph** has gotten his facts a little out of whack. Reading his OP, you’d get the impression that Ted Kennedy was solely responsible for the changes to the bill. Of course, smart people can use Google, and find out from [a](http://www.capecodonline.com/cctimes/kerrywades25.htm) [number](http://www.boston.com/news/local/massachusetts/articles/2006/02/23/wind_farm_firm_says_lobbyists_got_to_lawmaker/) [of](http://www.southcoasttoday.com/daily/02-06/02-24-06/01opinion.htm) [articles](http://www.eyewitnessnewstv.com/Global/story.asp?S=4541139&nav=F2DO) that the bill’s amendment was, in fact, introduced by that evil liberal from Alaska, Republican congressman Don Young. So, not only is the OP being disingenuous by placing all the blame for this on Ted Kennedy, he can’t even get his houses of Congress right. Young is not one of Kennedy’s “senate pals,” because he’s not even in the Senate, moron. Half of the articles i’ve found on the subject don’t even mention Kennedy. I’m not denying that Kennedy opposes the wind project. He’s made that quite clear. And a spokesperson for Kennedy even [made clear](http://www.capecodonline.com/cctimes/kerrywades25.htm) that the Senator supports the principle behind the amendment: > [@](#): > > ‘Sen. Kennedy hopes we have a national policy in place soon,’’ said Melissa Wagoner, a Kennedy spokeswoman. ‘‘But in the interim, he feels it’s understandable why members of the committee would want to look at navigational safety issues that accompany these kinds of projects.’’ But there are forces at work here besides Ted Kennedy, which the OP was apparently too slack-jawed to consider. > [@Chefguy](#): > > Wow: from windmills to Mary Jo in only two posts. That’s got to be a record of some sort. Indeed. With some folks, it’s almost Pavlovian. > [@Lissa](#): > > Can someone post an image of one of these farms? Whenever I’ve seen wind-generators, I’ve always thought they were kind of pretty. They’re sleek and slim-- sort of graceful-looking. I wouldn’t mind having one in my view. Well, you can see some images and even some video at the [Cape Wind website](http://www.capewind.org/). This is the group that wants to build the turbines. [This page](http://www.capewind.org/modules.php?op=modload&name=Sections&file=index&req=viewarticle&artid=9&page=1) has visual simulations of what the turbines would allegdly look like from the Cape Cod area. ---
**Author:** ![El\_Kabong](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/el_kabong/32/496_2.png) [@El\_Kabong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/El_Kabong)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2006, 5:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/go-to-hell-senator-kennedy/346074/7 "2006-02-25T17:33:13Z")
Note to the slightly slow: reference to Mary Jo Kopechne does not automatically invalidate any particular position taken by Sen. Kennedy. I don’t have a dog in this particular fight, but I for one am getting goddam tired of the irrelevant Chappaquiddick snipes that that show up every single time Kennedy’s name is mentioned. ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2006, 5:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/go-to-hell-senator-kennedy/346074/8 "2006-02-25T17:39:53Z")
Oh, forgot to add: According to the OP, the amendment to the bill specifies that “no electric power windmills could be sited within 10 miles of a ferry route (the Hyannis-Nantucket ferry).” This is disingenuous on one issue, and factually incorrect on another. First, by mentioning that particular ferry route, he makes it sound like this is the only possible place affected by this decision, and that the amendment would apply only to Cape Cod. This is not the case. Second, as the links i provided in my previous post demonstrate, the required distance between wind farms and shipping lanes in the amendment is 1½ miles, not 10 miles as suggested by the OP. And it’s for shipping and ferry lanes generally, not just for ferry routes. Just out of interest, **ralph** , did you get _any_ of your facts straight in the OP? I’m tempted to Google Cape Cod electricity rates to see if you fucked up that “fact” too. ---
**Author:** ![Digital\_Stimulus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/aeb1de/32.png) [@Digital\_Stimulus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Digital_Stimulus)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2006, 6:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/go-to-hell-senator-kennedy/346074/9 "2006-02-25T18:44:33Z")
Dammit! Just when I thought this liberal would be able to partake in a small dose of Republican self-righteous superiority over an issue that I _actually_ think has some merit, the OP gets shot to hell and proves once again to be little more than manufactured bile. Oh, well… ---
**Author:** ![ralph124c](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/8797f3/32.png) [@ralph124c](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ralph124c)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2006, 7:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/go-to-hell-senator-kennedy/346074/10 "2006-02-25T19:02:15Z")
Ted kennedy lectures us ceaslessly about how we American consume too many resources. His nephew runs an oil company that supplies heating oil to poor people (he pays himself $600,000/year, but thats another story). Anyway, while pontificating about the veil halliburton, Kennedy opposes the cape Cod winfarm project. never mind that the project would lower the cost of electricity, reduce greenhouse gases, and provide local jobs, kennedy doesn’t want it, because he thinks nantucket Sound belongs to him. So the big liberal turns out to be a big hypocrite…and he isn’t even honest enough to make a public stand one way or the other-he just says that “legislation is needed”. So he can play both sides of the fence. A classic kennedy “twoface” act. Oh, and I DIDN’T bring up mary Jo-although Kennedy is KNOWN to be a big proponent of women’s rights! 😉 ---
**Author:** ![OtakuLoki](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/ac8455/32.png) [@OtakuLoki](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OtakuLoki)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2006, 7:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/go-to-hell-senator-kennedy/346074/11 "2006-02-25T19:26:21Z")
I don’t know enough about this Cape Wind project to say anything one way or the other about it. I just want to point out that while I was living in Massachusetts (1973-1989) there was another factor causing electricity rates to skyrocket: debt servicing for the stalled Seabrook Nuclear power plant. It was a plant meant to come online about 1980, and after Three Mile Island (I keep forgetting that you can’t just say TMI and expect people to come up with that definition of the TLA.) it was roadblocked until the 90’s. The 15 years that the power companies had to pay for the plant, and the loans they’d taken out on it, without having any revenues from the plant were pretty devastating. I expect that factor has cooled off a bit since then, but it’s not an insignifigant factor. ---
**Author:** ![Shagnasty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9dc877/32.png) [@Shagnasty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shagnasty)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2006, 7:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/go-to-hell-senator-kennedy/346074/12 "2006-02-25T19:31:03Z")
> [@Chefguy](#): > > Wow: from windmills to Mary Jo in only two posts. That’s got to be a record of some sort. Nobody said anything about Mary Jo. That was an early one but Teddy has made a run on whole blocks of tickets to hell over the years. ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2006, 7:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/go-to-hell-senator-kennedy/346074/13 "2006-02-25T19:58:51Z")
> [@ralph124c](#): > > Ted kennedy lectures us ceaslessly about how we American consume too many resources. His nephew runs an oil company that supplies heating oil to poor people (he pays himself $600,000/year, but thats another story). Would the installation of a wind farm cause all of these poor people to switch from oil heat to electric heat? If not, what’s your point? The issue here is the manner in which electricity is generated. No-one has ever claimed that wind farms solve all energy problems, or that they will completely replace oil or gas as sources of heat energy. > [@ralph124c](#): > > Anyway, while pontificating about the veil halliburton, Kennedy opposes the cape Cod winfarm project. never mind that the project would lower the cost of electricity, reduce greenhouse gases, and provide local jobs, kennedy doesn’t want it, because he thinks nantucket Sound belongs to him. Is Halliburton a bride? I wasn’t aware that the company wore a veil. Unless that’s just for its Middle East operations. And what the fuck does Halliburton have to do with this? Like you, i happen to disagree with Ted Kennedy’s position on this issue, but your constant stream of errors and non-sequiturs is just making you look extremely stupid. > [@ralph124c](#): > > So the big liberal turns out to be a big hypocrite…and he isn’t even honest enough to make a public stand one way or the other-he just says that “legislation is needed”. So he can play both sides of the fence. A classic kennedy “twoface” act. What do you mean? He is, as one of the articles i linked to states quite clearly, a “staunch critic of the Cape Wind proposal.” Even the Cape Wind website links to articles that describe Kennedy’s opposition to the project. Like [this one](http://www.capewind.org/news283.htm), for example: > [@](#): > > The Conservation Law Foundation has called on Gov. Mitt Romney and Sen. Edward Kennedy to reconsider their opposition to the Cape Wind project in light of favorable findings in a draft environmental impact statement released yesterday. > > Romney and Kennedy have spoken out against the proposal to put 130 wind turbines in Nantucket Sound. And here’s an [article](http://www.capecodonline.com/special/windfarm/kennedystands8.htm) from two years ago showing that, even then, he was against the project: > [@](#): > > In his strongest statement yet about the proposed Nantucket Sound wind farm, U.S. Sen. Edward Kennedy has erased any doubts that he is opposed to the 130-turbine project. > > Kennedy, in an opinion column published in today’s Cape Cod Times, indicates could not support the $700 million project proposed by Cape Wind Associates until more rigorous regulatory oversight is in place - and even then his position was unlikely to change. A Lexis-Nexis search turned up this from the August 8, 2003 edition of the _Boston Globe_: > [@](#): > > US Senator Edward M. Kennedy said clearly for the first time yesterday that he opposes a plan to build the nation’s first offshore wind farm in Nantucket Sound, arguing the project has not received sufficient state or federal review. > > “So far, in spite of all the loud rhetoric on the issue, Cape Wind hasn’t met that test, and I doubt they ever will,” the Massachusetts Democrat said in a statement. “Until they do, the project should not go forward. Far more is at stake in the decision than our backyards, and I make no apology for opposing this project now.” Do a Google search for **cape wind kennedy site:boston.com** and you’ll find dozens of other references to Kennedy’s explicit opposition to the wind farm. Doesn’t exactly support your contention that he’s not making a public stand, or is playing both sides. You’re just embarassing yourself. By all means, disagree with his position on this issue. I do. But don’t be so dishonest in the way you represent it. You would go some way towards regaining the tiniest smidgen of credibility if you would at least acknowledge all the factual errors (best case scenario) or lies (worst case) in your OP. ---
**Author:** ![Una\_Persson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/una_persson/32/346_2.png) [@Una\_Persson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Una_Persson)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2006, 8:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/go-to-hell-senator-kennedy/346074/14 "2006-02-25T20:17:09Z")
For those of us that know absolutely nothing about energy matters, what exactly does the text “sufficient state or federal review” mean? As in, exact, controlling legislation that leads Kennedy to “doubt they ever will” meet this “test”? Sure, there are all sorts of things that have to be done to site a wind farm. So what are the exact reasons why Kennedy thinks this farm could never meet the state or federal review? Because, on the face of it, it seems to me to be NIMBYism at its worst, and the precedent is bad for the country. Now, unlike some I won’t hold out Kennedy nor the people of the region in question as being hypocrites, as I’ve rarely seen a seashore wind project that did not get a huge assload of objections to it, from people of all political backgrounds. But when people bring out the implications of failure of regulatory review, there surely must be fact behind it. And after all, fact is what matters, even in the Pit. ---
**Author:** ![duffer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/duffer/32/1026_2.png) [@duffer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/duffer)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2006, 8:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/go-to-hell-senator-kennedy/346074/15 "2006-02-25T20:31:21Z")
> [@Chefguy](#): > > Wow: from windmills to Mary Jo in only two posts. That’s got to be a record of some sort. Well, actually only three posts, but who’s counting? ---
**Author:** ![EddyTeddyFreddy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eddyteddyfreddy/32/18796_2.png) [@EddyTeddyFreddy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EddyTeddyFreddy)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2006, 9:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/go-to-hell-senator-kennedy/346074/16 "2006-02-25T21:47:56Z")
There’s already been a shitload of regulatory reviews at both the state and federal level, by a wide range of agencies with some piece of oversight on the multitude of issues raised by a large offshore windfarm. Lots of hearings have been held by the state and the feds locally in the towns most likely to be affected by the project. Those hearings have garnered lots and lots and LOTS of opposition from people of all walks of life and every political persuasion. I had some peripheral involvement in the hearings held by just one of the several state agencies involved in reviewing this project, and I can tell you the grounds for opposition raised were extensive and based in real concerns. Whether those objections were sufficient to justify killing the project is beyond my competence to adjudge, but they were way more substantive than the spoiling of some rich folks’ views. Claiming that the demise of this particular wind project is the doing of Senator Kennedy is about as reasonable as asserting that one of **ralph’s** farts could fuel a combined-cycle power plant. ---
**Author:** ![El\_Kabong](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/el_kabong/32/496_2.png) [@El\_Kabong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/El_Kabong)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2006, 9:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/go-to-hell-senator-kennedy/346074/17 "2006-02-25T21:56:37Z")
> [@Shagnasty](#): > > Nobody said anything about Mary Jo. That was an early one but Teddy has made a run on whole blocks of tickets to hell over the years. Give me a break. What the hell else was **Stephe96** referring to? Kennedy’s voting record on changes to the tax code? ---
**Author:** ![2nd\_Law](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/2/f475e1/32.png) [@2nd\_Law](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/2nd_Law)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2006, 10:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/go-to-hell-senator-kennedy/346074/18 "2006-02-25T22:08:04Z")
> [@Una Persson](#): > > For those of us that know absolutely nothing about energy matters… This cracked me up. ---
**Author:** ![DMC](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dmc/32/18049_2.png) [@DMC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DMC)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2006, 11:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/go-to-hell-senator-kennedy/346074/19 "2006-02-25T23:51:31Z")
> [@Shagnasty](#): > > Nobody said anything about Mary Jo. That was an early one but Teddy has made a run on whole blocks of tickets to hell over the years. > [@Stephe96](#): > > Hell, it’s still 100 days more than Ted Kennedy ever got for the death of Mary Jo Kopechne. (And, please…don’t tell me he was never ‘charged’ with her death! Like the cops in Edgartown would ever charge a Kennedy with ANYTHING serious!) > [@Stephe96](#): > > Hmmm. I’d like to see more books in this series. How 'bout Help! There’s A Liberal Driving The Car! , featuring, of course, the Ted Kennedy character? > [@Stephe96](#): > > Waitaminute, waitaminute! We DID all see the Clarence Thomas hearings, yes? I was sick to my stomach watching Ted Kennedy, captain of the Chappaquiddik Swim Team, pretend to sit in moral judgement of a man who maybe, maybe , told an off-color joke in front of a co-worker. And the other Dems sat there with straight faces!!! > [@Stephe96](#): > > Ted (Blonde in the Pond) Kennedy You’re right. He was probably talking about something else. ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2006, 11:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/go-to-hell-senator-kennedy/346074/20 "2006-02-25T23:53:27Z")
> [@DMC](#): > > You’re right. He was probably talking about something else. Heh heh. Nice detective work. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/go-to-hell-senator-kennedy/346074.md?page=2)