# Go **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [March 18, 2018, 3:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/go/810762 "2018-03-18T03:24:29Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2018, 3:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/go/810762/1 "2018-03-18T03:24:29Z")
I’d like to learn to play Go, but I have no one to teach me. Can anyone recommend a good free download for Mac OS 10.11? I’d like to use the 19 x 19 board. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2018, 7:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/go/810762/2 "2018-03-18T19:10:04Z")
All of the computer opponents (except one, which I don’t think is available to the public) are pretty bad, and you’re likely to learn bad habits from playing against them. It might be more useful to find an online community. ---
**Author:** ![That\_Don\_Guy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/that_don_guy/32/538_2.png) [@That\_Don\_Guy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/That_Don_Guy)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2018, 7:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/go/810762/3 "2018-03-18T19:29:34Z")
You also might want to find a copy of _Graded Go Problems for Beginners_; there are four volumes in increasing difficulty. Amazon has all four books. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2018, 7:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/go/810762/4 "2018-03-18T19:35:52Z")
> [@That\_Don\_Guy](#): > > You also might want to find a copy of _Graded Go Problems for Beginners_; there are four volumes in increasing difficulty. Amazon has all four books. Vol. 1 says it is assumed that the reader will have [_Go: A Complete Introduction to the Game_](https://smile.amazon.com/Go-Complete-Introduction-Beginner-Elementary/dp/4906574505/ref=sr_1_6?ie=UTF8&qid=1521401499&sr=8-6&keywords=Graded+Go+Problems+for+Beginners) by Cho Chikun. Perhaps I should start there? ---
**Author:** ![Blalron](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/35a633/32.png) [@Blalron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blalron)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2018, 10:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/go/810762/5 "2018-03-19T10:47:06Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > All of the computer opponents (except one, which I don’t think is available to the public) are pretty bad, and you’re likely to learn bad habits from playing against them. It might be more useful to find an online community. CrazyStone is the strongest commercially available Go program. It has an adjustable strength from 7 dan to 13 kyu, you can add stones to get the strength down to 20ish kyu. Unfortunately, the OP asked for a free program and this costs $80. ---
**Author:** ![DPRK](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/4491bb/32.png) [@DPRK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DPRK)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2018, 12:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/go/810762/6 "2018-03-19T12:18:25Z")
Have you tried popular online Go servers like KGS, IGS, etc.? It is known that at least at one point one could play against AlphaGo (aka “Master”) online, so even if you cannot download the program, at least that’s something. The pros themselves are learning from it (having realized that “humans have evolved in games in thousands of years—but computers now tell us humans are all wrong. I think no one is even close to know the basics of Go.”) ETA you will lose every fair game against such an opponent, but Go does have a handicapping system. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2018, 12:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/go/810762/7 "2018-03-20T00:32:19Z")
> [@DPRK](#): > > Have you tried popular online Go servers like KGS, IGS, etc.? No, I have no idea where to start or which one to choose. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2018, 2:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/go/810762/8 "2018-05-06T14:18:51Z")
> [@Johnny\_L.A](#): > > Vol. 1 says it is assumed that the reader will have [_Go: A Complete Introduction to the Game_](https://smile.amazon.com/Go-Complete-Introduction-Beginner-Elementary/dp/4906574505/ref=sr_1_6?ie=UTF8&qid=1521401499&sr=8-6&keywords=Graded+Go+Problems+for+Beginners) by Cho Chikun. Perhaps I should start there? I bought this book, and finally started to read it. The rules seem pretty simple. I thought I might want to learn backgammon, and the rules for that game seem much more complicated. I have a nice Go set in my Amazon shopping cart. But I’ll have to play against myself. I don’t think it’s the kind of game Mrs. L.A. would like, and there’s no one to play with here. (I still want to learn backgammon too, and she might go for that.) ---
**Author:** ![Peter\_Morris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/peter_morris/32/359_2.png) [@Peter\_Morris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peter_Morris)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2018, 4:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/go/810762/9 "2018-05-06T16:27:20Z")
[Here’s an online version](https://www.cosumi.net/en/). I can’t say if it will work with Mac. Works on my PC. You can choose whatever board size you like. ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2018, 11:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/go/810762/10 "2018-05-07T11:11:13Z")
[playok.com](http://playok.com) offers a nice interface for playing against other people. They offer Go, Backgammon, Bridge and much more. > [@Johnny\_L.A](#): > > … The rules seem pretty simple. I thought I might want to learn backgammon, and the rules for that game seem much more complicated. … Rule simplicity is deceiving! I think you will reach a level of comfort where you “sort of know what’s going on” MUCH sooner with Backgammon than with Go. ---
**Author:** ![Xema](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/x/9de053/32.png) [@Xema](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Xema)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2018, 12:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/go/810762/11 "2018-05-07T12:42:19Z")
> [@Johnny\_L.A](#): > > I thought I might want to learn backgammon, and the rules for that game seem much more complicated. Backgammon certainly exceeds Go in rules complexity (Go having perhaps the simplest rules of any significant game). But Backgammon rules are themselves rather simple - any interested person can easily learn all of them in 10 minutes. Grasping their full implications takes a bit longer … If you decide to play Backgammon, take care not to make the common mistake of avoiding use of the doubling cube. It makes a huge contribution to the appeal of the game. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2018, 5:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/go/810762/12 "2018-05-07T17:36:59Z")
> [@Xema](#): > > But Backgammon rules are themselves rather simple - any interested person can easily learn all of them in 10 minutes. Grasping their full implications takes a bit longer … Yes. Ten minutes to learn the rules at the most. I can probably explain it in under five minutes. In the beginning, the hardest thing to remember is how to set up the board, I would say. I learned it as a kid by buying a backgammon Intellivision game at a yard sale and just learned it through trial and error, with no access to the rules, within a couple playthroughs. But it’s a bit of deceiving game, and the strategies most novice players naturally come up with (playing very defensively and leaving as few blots [unprotected checkers] as possible) turns out not to be optimal in most cases. It’s also a very frustrating game when playing a better opponent, because it will often seem like “luck” is constantly going their way when, in fact, the better opponent is setting up their checkers better and with more possibilities for strategic play. This is not to say that luck is not a factor–it absolutely is. But it isn’t quite as big a factor as it seems initially. I would put it somewhere on par with cribbage or perhaps a little bit more skillful than that, in terms of luck vs skill balance. ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2018, 6:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/go/810762/13 "2018-05-07T18:13:21Z")
I describe Backgammon as 90% luck and 90% skill! I know that can’t be arithmetically correct … but that’s the way exciting backgammon “feels”! On the topic of rule simplicity, Go’s rules aren’t quite as simple as they seem. You’ll want to understand Seki and Triple-Ko, for starters, and there are some adjudicated positions, e.g. [Bent-Four in the Corner](https://senseis.xmp.net/?BentFourInTheCornerIsDead). The link implies that even that Bent-4 presents some confusion, and there are adjudicated positions much more complicated than Bent-4. (Chinese rules are different than Japanese rules, and there are other rule sets. IIRC, the score differential between rule sets is never more than 1 point.) These special cases don’t cause much trouble. Seki arises only in a small portion of games; Triple Ko is much rarer; and exotic positions like [the Ten Thousand Year Ko](https://senseis.xmp.net/?TenThousandYearKo) are extremely rare. The difficulty of advancing beyond beginner at Go has mothing to do with these special cases! ETA: It is straightforward to kill the Bent-4 in corner. The problem is that if you actually spend a stone killing it, that’s 1 point deducted from your score. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2018, 2:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/go/810762/14 "2018-05-09T14:44:17Z")
> [@Xema](#): > > But Backgammon rules are themselves rather simple > [@pulykamell](#): > > Yes. Ten minutes to learn the rules at the most. I do have a question about a rule, but I’ll start a Backgammon thread to ask it. (Unless someone else starts one, then I’ll post there.) ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2018, 2:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/go/810762/15 "2018-05-10T02:45:43Z")
> [@Johnny\_L.A](#): > > I do have a question about a rule, but I’ll start a Backgammon thread to ask it. (Unless someone else starts one, then I’ll post there.) You can just ask it here–it’s “your” thread, after all. If it’s just a side question, I’m not sure it needs its own thread. ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2018, 10:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/go/810762/16 "2018-05-10T10:39:18Z")
> [@Johnny\_L.A](#): > > I do have a question about a rule, but I’ll start a Backgammon thread to ask it. (Unless someone else starts one, then I’ll post there.) There’s a possible ambiguity in the rule: - You must take your entire roll if possible.\* ```php +13-14-15-16-17-18------19-20-21-22-23-24-+ | O O | | O O O O O | | | | O O O O O | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |BAR| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | X O | | | | X X O O | +12-11-10--9--8--7-------6--5--4--3--2--1-+ ``` If X rolls 3-1 in this position he is not allowed to play 6/5 and say “I have no 3.” He must find a way to play both 3 and 1 … and thereby leave three blots! HOWEVER, if he rolls 6-1 he is NOT required to play 6/0 5/4 and leave two blots. He is allowed to play safe with 6/5/0 — this is considered “taking the whole roll” even though a pip is wasted with the 6. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2018, 3:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/go/810762/17 "2018-05-10T15:55:45Z")
> [@pulykamell](#): > > You can just ask it here–it’s “your” thread, after all. If it’s just a side question, I’m not sure it needs its own thread. I’ll leave this thread for Go and start a Backgammon thread. > [@septimus](#): > > There’s a possible ambiguity in the rule: I’ve quoted this in the [Backgammon thread](https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=854558) ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2018, 3:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/go/810762/18 "2018-05-21T03:46:53Z")
SWMBO decreed that I shall clean out the travel trailer that is attached to the house, so that we may demolish it. I _thought_ I had a Go game around here somewhere, and I found it. It’s from [The Game Keeper](https://www.amazon.com/Game-Keeper-GO-Ancient-Strategy/dp/B007IKY7QS), and has a 19 x 19 wooden board with dots describing a 13 x 13 field. I also found my [Othello](https://www.amazon.com/Othello-Classic-Game-2-Player/dp/B01MXWTYLF) (‘Reverso’) game. Mrs. L.A. saw it and said, ‘You have Othello? I used to play that all the time!’ Maybe I can get her to play Othello with me, and then coax her into Go. > [@Peter\_Morris](#): > > [Here’s an online version](https://www.cosumi.net/en/). I’ve tried the link a couple of times. The first time, I didn’t have time to complete the game. I’ve just completed a game, and lost. I haven’t learned any strategy yet. I used level zero and a 9 x 9 board, and failed utterly. ---
**Author:** ![zombywoof](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/9e8a1a/32.png) [@zombywoof](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zombywoof)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2018, 6:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/go/810762/19 "2018-06-07T18:59:40Z")
[This](http://playgo.to/iwtg/en/) is a pretty good, interactive Go tutorial. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2018, 1:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/go/810762/20 "2018-06-11T01:07:15Z")
> [@zombywoof](#): > > [This](http://playgo.to/iwtg/en/) is a pretty good, interactive Go tutorial. I’ll give it a go ( 😉 ) when I have a chance. I’m taking the last week of the month off to finish the trailer. I _might_ be done with it next weekend. So I should have some time. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/go/810762.md?page=2)