# Goading someone into suicide: What would be a fair punishment? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [February 28, 2015, 8:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/goading-someone-into-suicide-what-would-be-a-fair-punishment/713846 "2015-02-28T08:00:08Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Ruby](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/13edae/32.png) [@Ruby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ruby)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2015, 2:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/goading-someone-into-suicide-what-would-be-a-fair-punishment/713846/41 "2015-03-02T14:36:21Z")
What a curious case. Psychopaths and sociopaths come in all shapes and sizes. I wonder if she has had any other symptoms growing up? I can’t even imagine how horrified her parents must be. ---
**Author:** ![AnaMen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dfb087/32.png) [@AnaMen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AnaMen)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2015, 3:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/goading-someone-into-suicide-what-would-be-a-fair-punishment/713846/42 "2015-03-02T15:06:30Z")
> [@Ruby](#): > > What a curious case. Psychopaths and sociopaths come in all shapes and sizes. I wonder if she has had any other symptoms growing up? I can’t even imagine how horrified her parents must be. Her parents could be as messed up as she is. Shouldn’t they have gleaned some sort of clue about what she was up to before it came to this? She was hardly slick about covering her tracks. ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Lowry](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e95f7d/32.png) [@Sam\_Lowry](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Lowry)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2015, 3:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/goading-someone-into-suicide-what-would-be-a-fair-punishment/713846/43 "2015-03-02T15:10:07Z")
It’s a disturbing story. I don’t know what laws apply, and I don’t want any new ones to be made and to apply retroactively, but I desperately hope that she gets some sort of therapy. [The Boston Globe](https://www.bostonglobe.com/metro/2015/02/27/plainville-teen-charged-with-manslaughter-friend-suicide/WM5yHKA5IpobG2WXEWHLFM/story.html) also has a story, with some of the text messages she sent to friends: > [@](#): > > In a text sent to a friend two months after his death, Carter said Roy had gotten out of the truck because he was scared, but she told him to get back in. > > “I knew he would do it all over again the next day, and I couldn’t have him live the way he was living anymore,” she wrote. “I couldn’t do it. I wouldn’t let him.” > > Police also found a message Carter sent to a friend about the investigation just over a week after the suicide, expressing fear that she might be in trouble. > > “They have to go thru his phone and see if anyone encouraged him to do it on texts and stuff. . . . They read my messages with him I’m done. My family will hate me and I could go to jail.” She evidently did think she did something wrong if she knew that she’d be in be trouble once people saw the text messages. The “I couldn’t have him live the way he was living anymore” message is disturbing. I don’t know if she genuinely thought his life was so terrible that it would be best for him if he died, or if it was just a sociopathic power play, about wanting to be in control of someone else’s life and death. ---
**Author:** ![AnaMen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dfb087/32.png) [@AnaMen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AnaMen)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2015, 3:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/goading-someone-into-suicide-what-would-be-a-fair-punishment/713846/44 "2015-03-02T15:17:17Z")
While I doubt that she believed she was helping him in any way whatsoever, he obviously must have had some problems other than her. She wasn’t some kind of sorceress who could single-handedly talk a happy and healthy 18-year-old into suicide from scratch. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2015, 3:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/goading-someone-into-suicide-what-would-be-a-fair-punishment/713846/45 "2015-03-02T15:27:31Z")
> [@Namkcalb](#): > > total solitary confinement with minimal sleep. Isn’t sleep deprivation a form of torture? > [@](#): > > I’d also ban her from adopting or fostering any children, munchausens-by-proxy is too big a risk. How do you know it’s any kind of risk at all? ---
**Author:** ![Slithy\_Tove](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slithy_tove/32/18248_2.png) [@Slithy\_Tove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slithy_Tove)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2015, 5:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/goading-someone-into-suicide-what-would-be-a-fair-punishment/713846/46 "2015-03-02T17:45:44Z")
> [@Sam\_Lowry](#): > > [The Boston Globe](https://www.bostonglobe.com/metro/2015/02/27/plainville-teen-charged-with-manslaughter-friend-suicide/WM5yHKA5IpobG2WXEWHLFM/story.html) also has a story, with some of the text messages she sent to friends. Wow, butter wouldn’t melt in her…mouth. ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2015, 7:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/goading-someone-into-suicide-what-would-be-a-fair-punishment/713846/47 "2015-03-02T19:05:07Z")
> [@AnaMen](#): > > While I doubt that she believed she was helping him in any way whatsoever, he obviously must have had some problems other than her. She wasn’t some kind of sorceress who could single-handedly talk a happy and healthy 18-year-old into suicide from scratch. It is pretty obvious that she knew that he was depressed. Emotionally stable people may from time to time briefly entertain thoughts of suicide, but rarely more than that. This lad had actually reached the point of initiating the process, [a point which a rather small number of people actually reach](http://www.save.org/index.cfm?fuseaction=home.viewPage&page_id=705D5DF4-055B-F1EC-3F66462866FCB4E6). She seemed to realize that he was vulnerable, gave him a nudge, then used his corpse to try to make herself look noble. It is that last part, the picnic on his grave, that is damning. ---
**Author:** ![YogSothoth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/8edcca/32.png) [@YogSothoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/YogSothoth)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2015, 7:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/goading-someone-into-suicide-what-would-be-a-fair-punishment/713846/48 "2015-03-02T19:20:12Z")
She looks like she has fangs ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Captor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f17d59/32.png) [@Evil\_Captor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Captor)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2015, 7:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/goading-someone-into-suicide-what-would-be-a-fair-punishment/713846/49 "2015-03-02T19:34:44Z")
Let us say she is a a sociopath (she certainly seems to fill the bill, but IANAP). As I understand it, sociopaths have no control over being sociopaths, there’s something wrong in the way their brains are wired that keeps them from having normal human empathy. So can we blame her for what she did, really? If she is a sociopath, she’s more like a rabid dog than a morally flawed person. We might wish to protect people from her, but in the most humane way possible. ---
**Author:** ![Randolph](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e5b9ba/32.png) [@Randolph](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Randolph)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2015, 7:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/goading-someone-into-suicide-what-would-be-a-fair-punishment/713846/50 "2015-03-02T19:53:50Z")
So, quick bullet to the head? ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2015, 8:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/goading-someone-into-suicide-what-would-be-a-fair-punishment/713846/51 "2015-03-02T20:06:15Z")
She knowingly and deliberately took actions intended to result in the death of a person, and her actions succeeded in that goal. A charge of some form of homicide seems justified to me. ---
**Author:** ![Cartoonacy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/848f3c/32.png) [@Cartoonacy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cartoonacy)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2015, 10:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/goading-someone-into-suicide-what-would-be-a-fair-punishment/713846/52 "2015-03-02T22:22:11Z")
IANAL, but I would think that a charge of accessory to murder could be applicable. [Whoever counsels… a felony to be committed may be indicted and convicted as an accessory before the fact](https://malegislature.gov/Laws/GeneralLaws/PartIV/TitleI/Chapter274/Section3) ---
**Author:** ![DrCube](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a3d4f5/32.png) [@DrCube](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrCube)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2015, 10:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/goading-someone-into-suicide-what-would-be-a-fair-punishment/713846/53 "2015-03-02T22:55:00Z")
She didn’t kill him. She literally played no part. Telling someone to kill themselves is odious, but I can’t imagine it falls anywhere other than squarely within the freedom speech. I think she’s a cold-hearted bitch (as described in the article), but the dude, straight up, killed himself. She wasn’t even there. And, hey, I’ve told people to kill themselves, too. 1) In the [Bill Hicks](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qiukc1yfzCI) sense, insulting people who completely deserve it, like marketing execs, though usually not in person. 2) When people use the threat of suicide as a weapon against me one too many times (which, considering the girl in question was in a relationship with the deceased, might have been the situation here). If you tell me, even in an argument where you’re trying to hurt me, that you’ll kill yourself, I will do what I can to talk you out of it. If it becomes clear that you have no intention of killing yourself any time soon, a good “Why don’t you just do it then??” can sometimes shock some sense into them. I can’t imagine sending hundreds of messages to a suicidal person imploring them to kill themselves, though, including 70 more messages after he died. Which is why I concur with the hatred of the girl in the OP. I’m just hesitant to call her actions criminal. You should be able to talk to someone however you want without being responsible for their actions. Behaviors should be crimes, not words. If she kicked the chair out from under him or bought him the gun he used, or gave him the bottle of pills, I can see her being somewhat responsible. But just saying “do it” doesn’t rise to that level, in my opinion. ---
**Author:** ![wolfman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/a8b319/32.png) [@wolfman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfman)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2015, 11:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/goading-someone-into-suicide-what-would-be-a-fair-punishment/713846/54 "2015-03-02T23:21:53Z")
The idea of “taking advantage of someone in a fragile mental state” pops up fairly often in lawyer shows, but are there actual laws behind it? Just for a maybe pointless analogy. If one of my friends walked up to me in a completely frantic and disheveled state ranting about how the voices are telling him to kill the demon. So I say “ohh the demon? Yeah that’s my asshole boss, he’s right up there on the third floor, back door is never locked this time of day, stairs to your right, up two flights, through the grey door, second office on the left”. If he did go kill him I would certainly hope there is some law that would apply to what I did without hiding behind free speech. And in this chick’s case I don’t see a difference of fundamentals, only degrees. Trying to convincing someone in a fragile mental state to do harm. I don’t know that it should be a particularly easy case, but I think there should be a feasible law to attempt to prosecute on. ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Captor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f17d59/32.png) [@Evil\_Captor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Captor)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2015, 11:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/goading-someone-into-suicide-what-would-be-a-fair-punishment/713846/55 "2015-03-02T23:26:17Z")
> [@Randolph](#): > > So, quick bullet to the head? Not sure that qualifies as “most humane.” ---
**Author:** ![Peremensoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ce7236/32.png) [@Peremensoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peremensoe)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2015, 11:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/goading-someone-into-suicide-what-would-be-a-fair-punishment/713846/56 "2015-03-02T23:47:38Z")
> [@DrCube](#): > > You should be able to talk to someone however you want without being responsible for their actions. Behaviors should be crimes, not words. Plenty of recognized crimes can be committed by words: conspiracy, accessory, fraud. ---
**Author:** ![Typo\_Negative](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/typo_negative/32/484_2.png) [@Typo\_Negative](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Typo_Negative)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2015, 11:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/goading-someone-into-suicide-what-would-be-a-fair-punishment/713846/57 "2015-03-02T23:56:06Z")
> [@usedtobe](#): > > Force her to prepare the body for burial (drain blood, inject embalming fluid (especially fun if an autopsy has been performed)). > She also digs the grave and pays all costs, including the cemetery funding and grave marker. I like the way you think. I am in favor of this one. They should run a full page ad along with her current picture every year with the banner “YOU should kill yourself”. Is suicide a crime in Mass? It sure shouldn’t be. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2015, 12:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/goading-someone-into-suicide-what-would-be-a-fair-punishment/713846/58 "2015-03-03T00:11:39Z")
> [@Recusant](#): > > Oh, my mistake- wait a minute. If this a US case, why are we being linked to the Daily Mail? Outragesourcing. ---
**Author:** ![Count\_Blucher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c5a1d2/32.png) [@Count\_Blucher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Count_Blucher)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2015, 12:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/goading-someone-into-suicide-what-would-be-a-fair-punishment/713846/59 "2015-03-03T00:17:43Z")
> [@DrCube](#): > > She didn’t kill him. She literally played no part. Telling someone to kill themselves is odious, but I can’t imagine it falls anywhere other than squarely within the freedom speech. I think she’s a cold-hearted bitch (as described in the article), but the dude, straight up, killed himself. The “yelling fire in a crowded theater” argument seems to apply. ---
**Author:** ![zoltar7](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/b38774/32.png) [@zoltar7](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zoltar7)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2015, 1:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/goading-someone-into-suicide-what-would-be-a-fair-punishment/713846/60 "2015-03-03T01:02:05Z")
No crime. No punishment. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/goading-someone-into-suicide-what-would-be-a-fair-punishment/713846.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/goading-someone-into-suicide-what-would-be-a-fair-punishment/713846.md?page=4)