# Gobear, what is up?
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gobear-what-is-up/113593
**Category:** The BBQ Pit
**Created:** [June 12, 2002, 4:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gobear-what-is-up/113593 "2002-06-12T04:43:58Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 1
### Author:  [@musicguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/musicguy)
#### Post date: [June 12, 2002, 4:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gobear-what-is-up/113593/1 "2002-06-12T04:43:58Z")
**Gobear** ,
I’ve never taken someone to the pit before, nor even imagined doing so but here we are. Lets start with a little history.
You posted the following: [in this thread](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?threadid=119369&perpage=40&pagenumber=1)
> [@](#):
>
> So Scott Evil went home with a trick last night? So what? What gay man hasn’t done that?
I made mention of this here:
> [@](#):
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> Then again, unlike gobears assertion, all gay men don’t pick up tricks and bring them home.
To which you reply:
> [@](#):
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> 'Scuse me? Learn to read, pal. I didn’t say all gay men tricked. Here’s what I wrote (big words–go slow):
>
> ## quote:
>
> Not all gay men are promiscuous, but we all have strong sexual urges.
>
> * * *
>
> Idiot.
To which I reply:
> [@](#):
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> ## No? Here is what you said: quote:
>
> So Scott Evil went home with a trick last night? So what? What gay man hasn’t done that?
>
> * * *
>
> I haven’t
And then from you:
> [@](#):
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> Musicguy, so are you saying that, in you entire life, you’ve never, ever had a causal liaison?
>
> Wow.
>
> Shouldn’t you be in a museum?
Man, you are really good at stereotyping.
A) Suggesting that all gay men have casual sex.
B) Suggesting that I should be in a museum because I don’t
C) Suggesting that anyone that offers advise is being patronizing and condescending.
The fact is you are wrong on all three counts. You acted like a jerk in that thread and my understanding is that this is not allowed. You called me an idiot and suggested that I needed to learn to read after demonstrating that you have the memory retention of a lawn chair. I didn’t put words in your mouth and I didn’t misunderstand what you wrote. And you don’t feel an apology is warranted??? People express concern for Scott, he gets frustrated but has the decency to respect that others meant well. You, on the other hand, are so wrapped up in what you _think_ people mean when they offer advice that you can’t comprehend that they are possibly, just maybe, being genuine and mean no harm. I understand that you don’t need their advice. You have your shit together. I get it. Maybe others don’t read every thread you post though and aren’t aware of your feelings when it comes to being “lectured to”. That isn’t a crime. There are many other ways you could have handled this without being an ass. Hell, all you had to do was post a link to your thread or even just “Thanks for your concern but Scott can take care of himself”.
Besides, when barebacking is getting more and more popular and AIDS among young people is on the rise, being careful is a message that cannot be repeated enough. I know to be careful, you know to be, etc… That doesn’t mean it is wrong to repeat that message. Obviously \* every \* gay does not understand the importance of this message. Maybe the people that said what they did were being horribly naive. They still were just trying to do some good and weren’t trying to offend or attack anyone. You, on the other hand, seem to be in the habit of doing both to anyone who isn’t well read on **Gobear’s** thoughts.
Go ahead and rip this to shreds if you feel obligated to. The general consensus of that thread still will be that you were out of line.
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### Author:  [@Esprix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Esprix)
#### Post date: [June 12, 2002, 6:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gobear-what-is-up/113593/2 "2002-06-12T06:29:08Z")
**music** , did you read **gobear** ’s thread [“Gay and AIDS are not synonyms, dammit!”](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=112950)? It might explain a few things…
Esprix
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### Author:  [@Violet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Violet)
#### Post date: [June 12, 2002, 6:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gobear-what-is-up/113593/3 "2002-06-12T06:50:28Z")
> [@](#):
>
> you have the memory retention of a lawn chair.
I really like that phrase! 🆒
Carry on…
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### Author:  [@tigergirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tigergirl)
#### Post date: [June 12, 2002, 7:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gobear-what-is-up/113593/4 "2002-06-12T07:12:12Z")
Just lending my support to Musicguy, maybe gobear should learn the difference between personal experiences and generalisation (just MHO of course).
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### Author:  [@Sofa\_King](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sofa_King)
#### Post date: [June 12, 2002, 7:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gobear-what-is-up/113593/5 "2002-06-12T07:17:20Z")
For the record, I just went to the museums today, because I’m unemployed. As far as I know, I saw none of the abovementioned parties, unless **musicguy** was posing as one of those peculiarly placed rose-period Picassos amongst the blues.
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### Author:  [@istara](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/istara)
#### Post date: [June 12, 2002, 7:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gobear-what-is-up/113593/6 "2002-06-12T07:21:55Z")
Also in support of **Musicguy**. I mean can you imagine (to use another terrible stereotype):
“So, Agnetha had a one-night stand last night. What Swedish girl hasn’t done that?”
Offensive, AND inaccurate.
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### Author:  [@Coldfire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Coldfire)
#### Post date: [June 12, 2002, 8:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gobear-what-is-up/113593/7 "2002-06-12T08:29:12Z")
I think **musicguy** has a point.
I don’t know about Swedish girls, though. 😉
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### Author:  [@Anahita](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anahita)
#### Post date: [June 12, 2002, 10:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gobear-what-is-up/113593/8 "2002-06-12T10:19:22Z")
**Musicguy** , well-written and logical post. I see your point, completely.
If a straight person had come along and said,
“So Scott Evil went home with a trick last night? So what? What gay man hasn’t done that?”, and then taken a step further, to state that any gay man that hadn’t done that should be in a museum, the claws would’ve come out, I’m certain.
Anyway, I agree, the message about safeR sex can never be overemphasized.
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### Author:  [@gobear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gobear)
#### Post date: [June 12, 2002, 11:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gobear-what-is-up/113593/9 "2002-06-12T11:14:42Z")
First, read the thread that **Esprix** linked to. I am sick to the teeth of being lectured by well-meaning but clueless heterosexuals. In the thread where we argued, three women were projecting their own ferars into condescending lectures on tto the tune of going home wioth a new friend will get you raped. One of them claimed that being a mom gave the right to tell others how to live, and another brought up meaningless stats about domestic abuse which have no relevance to casual sex.
no as top your complete misunderstanding of my posts:
“What gay man hasn’t done that?”–My contention was that just every gay man, at least once, has given into lust and had casual sex. We’re talking about a drunken fumble with a frat brother or any quick sexual encounter.
That **is not the same thing as saying that all gay men are promiscuous**. I have had casual sex before. But for the past year, I have been in a completely monogamous relationship–am I promiscuous? Sleeping with a guy you’ve just met once or twice does not brand you as a lifelong slut.
> [@](#):
>
> B) Suggesting that I should be in a museum because I don’t
Your experience, however valid, is the exception in human behavior, not the rule. Not everybody waits to get married (although some do). I was being snarky because you pissed me off.
> [@](#):
>
> C) Suggesting that anyone that offers advise is being patronizing and condescending
I didn’t say that; I said the specific advice in that thread was being patronizing and condescending.
**Anahita** , **Istara** , and **Tigergilr** : I am sorry, but you don’t know much about gay history. Back in the prehistoric mists of the 1970s, sexuality and promiscuity were celebrated as a sign of liberation from the closet. Many bars had backrooms for sex on the premises, and every city with a decent-sized gay community had at least one bathhouse. This, of course, boomeranged, when a nasty little virus invaded the US and shut down the circus. However, to this day, celebration of our sexual identity is part of being gay. Getting sex is much easier if you are gay than if you are straight, and unless a man is a real closet case or a prude, he has probably had, at least once in his life, an episode of casual sex. Again, not the same thing as being promiscuous.
But the important point that **Musicguy** didn’t get and that others made beside me is that some advice can be insulting, as in one poster getting told he probably had AIDS because a doctor assumed that his skin rash must be from a suppressed immune system.
Gay men know about AIDS and safe sex, so you can stop bringing it up in every thread which touches, however tangentially, on gay life.
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### Author:  [@Venoma](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Venoma)
#### Post date: [June 12, 2002, 11:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gobear-what-is-up/113593/10 "2002-06-12T11:16:29Z")
Just to throw yet another point out there, I have had way too fscking many people tell me that there’s no way my fiance could possibly be faithful to me because we’re in a long distance relationship and he’s a MAN, you know, with those URGES which prevent him from being faithful in lieu of sex.
Yet my libido runs higher than his whenever we’re together. I manage to stay celibate when we’re not in the same area code… apparantly if I had a dick I would have an excuse for fucking around.
[/hijack]
I just love stereotypes of any color.
_sigh_ ☹
This has no bearing whatsoever on this thread. Please ignore me.
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### Author:  [@Fred](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fred)
#### Post date: [June 12, 2002, 11:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gobear-what-is-up/113593/11 "2002-06-12T11:29:38Z")
> [@](#):
>
> “What gay man hasn’t done that?”–My contention was that just every gay man, at least once, has given into lust and had casual sex. We’re talking about a drunken fumble with a frat brother or any quick sexual encounter.
>
> That is **not the same thing as saying that all gay men are promiscuous**.
**gobear** , I suggest that you read, understand, and **then** get angry. The only one using the word “promiscuous” in this thread is you. **musicguy** is pointing out that he has never engaged in _casual sex_, **not the same thing as promiscuity** , as you were so kind to bold.
Your blatent stereotyping (“every gay man… has had casual sex”) isn’t any less offensive due to your sexual orientation.
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### Author:  [@gobear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gobear)
#### Post date: [June 12, 2002, 11:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gobear-what-is-up/113593/12 "2002-06-12T11:37:19Z")
> [@](#):
>
> gobear, I suggest that you read, understand, and then get angry.
Why don’t **you** read and understand? **Musicguy** is using ‘casual sex’ in the context of current promiscuity; I’m using it to refer to ever in your life having had at least one incident of causal sex. Just because **Musicguy** has never, ever, in his who0le life, gotten naked with another guy he was not in a relationship with, has no relevance to the rest of gay America. The vast majority of gay men have had casual sex at least once. That’s just a fact.
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### Author:  [@Fred](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fred)
#### Post date: [June 12, 2002, 11:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gobear-what-is-up/113593/13 "2002-06-12T11:47:45Z")
So if you agree with **musicguy’s** assertation that not every gay man has had casual sex, why are so angry with him? What justifies your claim that just because he makes different sexual choices, he belongs in a museum? You were “being snarky because he pissed you off?” What, exactly, pissed you off? The part where you contradicted your stereotyped view of gays? As for your lame excuse:
> [@](#):
>
> First, read the thread that Esprix linked to. I am sick to the teeth of being lectured by well-meaning but clueless heterosexuals.
What a delicious non sequitor! **music** is neither clueless nor heterosexual. “I was mad at these people, that’s why I was an asshole to you” isn’t a justification that I can accept, **gobear**.
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### Author:  [@Fred](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fred)
#### Post date: [June 12, 2002, 11:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gobear-what-is-up/113593/14 "2002-06-12T11:48:48Z")
Should read “he contradicted”, rather than “you contradicted”
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### Author:  [@gobear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gobear)
#### Post date: [June 12, 2002, 11:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gobear-what-is-up/113593/15 "2002-06-12T11:53:19Z")
> [@](#):
>
> So if you agree with musicguy’s assertation that not every gay man has had casual sex, why are so angry with him? What justifies your claim that just because he makes different sexual choices, he belongs in a museum? You were “being snarky because he pissed you off?” What, exactly, pissed you off? The part where you contradicted your stereotyped view of gays?
Read the linked thread. As for “well-meaning but clueless heteros” I wasn’t referring to **Musicguy** , but the posters in the thread that so pissed me off. Read both threads, then get back to me. Also look up the meaning of stereotype.
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### Author:  [@wring](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wring)
#### Post date: [June 12, 2002, 11:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gobear-what-is-up/113593/16 "2002-06-12T11:53:39Z")
and **gobear** regardless of what you _meant_ , **musicguy** quoted what you **said** and you chewed him out for it.
and, I said as much in that thread.
You said, he quoted you, you chewed him out saying ‘show me where I said that’, he showed you where you said exactly what he quoted and you chewed him out even more.
If you’d **meant** something different than ‘what gay man hasn’t (tricked)’ , then you probably should have fucking said that. Or, at the very least, acknowledged that you had been unclear in your writing.
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### Author:  [@Cartooniverse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cartooniverse)
#### Post date: [June 12, 2002, 11:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gobear-what-is-up/113593/17 "2002-06-12T11:54:55Z")
> [@](#):
>
> \*Originally posted by gobear \*
> \*\* Just because **Musicguy** has never, ever, in his who0le life, gotten naked with another guy he was not in a relationship with, has no relevance to the rest of gay America. The vast majority of gay men have had casual sex at least once. That’s just a fact. \*\*
And in admitting same, has earned your ire instead of your respect for HIS PARTICULAR LIFESTYLE CHOICE.
Hmmmmmm.
\*\*Pot.
Kettle.
Black.\*\*
You have the unmitigated GALL to attack someone who states their sexual preferences- and their own sense of self-respect and awareness of how their choices are percieved by the larger gay community, when you’re still out of breath from defending your OWN ???
Shame on you. You owe him an apology. Now, be an adult and deliver. :wally
Cartooniverse
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### Author:  [@Fred](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fred)
#### Post date: [June 12, 2002, 12:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gobear-what-is-up/113593/18 "2002-06-12T12:00:10Z")
> [@](#):
>
> Stereotype
>
> n : a conventional or formulaic conception or image: “regional stereotypes have been part of America since its founding” v : treat or classify according to a mental stereotype; “I was stereotyped as a lazy Southern European”
Perhaps another good example would be “I was stereotyped as a gay man who couldn’t help but give in to my powerful lust (which rendered my will power useless) and have casual sex - like every other gay man on the earth.”
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### Author:  [@gobear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gobear)
#### Post date: [June 12, 2002, 12:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gobear-what-is-up/113593/19 "2002-06-12T12:09:49Z")
Or how about
“I was stereotyped as a gay man who is only human, and gave in to the basic human need for the touch of another man to get some comfort, however briefly-like every other person on the earth.”
Sorry, but some generalizations are true. I swear if I said “All Koreans eat rice,” you’d accuse me of stereotyping, despite, a)my having lived and worked in Seoul and Taejon for the best part of a decade, and having any number of meals with Koreans. You’d hold up one guy with a rice allergy as evidence to the contrary.
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### Author:  [@TwistofFate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TwistofFate)
#### Post date: [June 12, 2002, 12:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gobear-what-is-up/113593/20 "2002-06-12T12:16:02Z")
You can’t even accept when you are wrong Gobear. Thats very sad.
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