# Gobear, what is up? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [June 12, 2002, 4:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gobear-what-is-up/113593 "2002-06-12T04:43:58Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![gobear](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/8dc957/32.png) [@gobear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gobear)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2002, 12:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gobear-what-is-up/113593/21 "2002-06-12T12:21:53Z")
> [@](#): > > You can’t even accept when you are wrong Gobear. Thats very sad When I have been wrong, I have apologized. On this point, I believe I am right. I will apologize to **Musicguy** for the “museum” comment. It was snarky, rude, and uncalled for. He has every right to make his choices in life. However, my other points still stand. His is the exception, not the rule. Certainly, it would be better if more gay men followed **Musicguy** ’s example. However, no matter how admirable he may be, to say that his example means that casual sex is not part of gay men’s general experience, is to deny the truth. ---
**Author:** ![wring](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/838e76/32.png) [@wring](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wring)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2002, 12:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gobear-what-is-up/113593/22 "2002-06-12T12:29:18Z")
how about an apology for the ‘idiot’ comment, calling into question his reading abilities when he quoted **your exact words**? ---
**Author:** ![Coldfire](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a587f6/32.png) [@Coldfire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Coldfire)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2002, 12:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gobear-what-is-up/113593/23 "2002-06-12T12:31:15Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by gobear \* > \*\*to say that his example means that casual sex is not part of gay men’s general experience, is to deny the truth. \*\* Yeah. It’s just that he didn’t say that. ---
**Author:** ![yojimbo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yojimbo/32/232_2.png) [@yojimbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yojimbo)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2002, 12:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gobear-what-is-up/113593/24 "2002-06-12T12:35:24Z")
Back to the OP You may not be wrong but the readers of this board cannot get be inside your head to know what you meant. > [@](#): > > So Scott Evil went home with a trick last night? So what? What gay man hasn’t done that? Sure reads like you’re that IYO all gay men have done it. You then say you didn’t say it. You patronisingly try to explain that you actually said > [@](#): > > Not all gay men are promiscuous, but we all have strong sexual urges. The 1st quote does not equal the 2nd at all and you called someone a idiot because they didn’t get it. Come on to fuck. You posted something that maybe you knew what you meant but IMO and the opinion of a lot of people that’s not how it reads. Even if you don’t think you where wrong about the actual point you where **trying** to make you acted like an ass and you where in fact **wrong** to do that. YMMV for some unknown reason. ---
**Author:** ![Missy2U](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/3bc359/32.png) [@Missy2U](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Missy2U)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2002, 12:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gobear-what-is-up/113593/25 "2002-06-12T12:47:35Z")
Ok, this is going to sound stupid, but while > [@](#): > > **yojimbo says** > > You may not be wrong but the readers of this board cannot get be inside your head to know what you meant. **gobear** , I know **exactly** what you meant. And I agree with you. And I’d be willing to bet there are a lot of other people who know, and agree, too. And I had better stop with this horrible grammar. I’d give you a hug, but I ain’t the mushy type… 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![yojimbo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yojimbo/32/232_2.png) [@yojimbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yojimbo)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2002, 12:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gobear-what-is-up/113593/26 "2002-06-12T12:54:10Z")
You know or you knew that when he said > [@](#): > > So Scott Evil went home with a trick last night? So what? What gay man hasn’t done that? you knew he meant > [@](#): > > Not all gay men are promiscuous, but we all have strong sexual urges. Wow you’re good 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Missy2U](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/3bc359/32.png) [@Missy2U](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Missy2U)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2002, 1:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gobear-what-is-up/113593/27 "2002-06-12T13:14:18Z")
yojimbo, I’d give you a smooch, but I already **said** I ain’t the mushy type… 😉 I guess I kind of just knew the point he was trying to make - and in my opinion, it seems kind of universal. And when I say universal, I mean universal to EVERYONE, gay, straight, bi - EVERYONE. I can’t explain it in a way that would make any sense, and I should just kind of stay out of this whole thing, I suppose. Going to go get some breakfast. I’m getting a sneaking suspicion that this is going to be a long day… 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Drastic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Drastic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Drastic)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2002, 1:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gobear-what-is-up/113593/28 "2002-06-12T13:20:12Z")
I for one don’t mind. The Pit would simply stop functioning if people didn’t angrily cling to their right to angrily lash out at others for things that entirely different people said or did to originally inspire anger. This sort of thing is merely the oil that keeps the gears of the Pit turning smoothly. ---
**Author:** ![yojimbo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yojimbo/32/232_2.png) [@yojimbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yojimbo)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2002, 1:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gobear-what-is-up/113593/29 "2002-06-12T13:34:42Z")
**Missy2U** I agree that the point made after the quotes used is pretty obvious and universal. My only real point is that **gobear** acted a wee bit of a dick with regard to the initial “misunderstanding”. [aside]Hope your day isn’t to long and you enjoy your brekkie 🙂 I on the other hand am having a very very very long day as I was out celebrating the birth of one of my best friend first child and I’m a bit worst for wear ☹ ---
**Author:** ![pldennison](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/9fc29f/32.png) [@pldennison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pldennison)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2002, 1:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gobear-what-is-up/113593/30 "2002-06-12T13:44:31Z")
Irony, defined: It was the initial explosion of AIDS in the gay community, and the realization that anyone can get it, which led to increased STD and safe-sex education among Americans. For a generation now, teens and young adults have received, if not formal education, information from the culture at large on AIDS prevention and safe sex. Now, straight Americans are starting to parrot that same safe-sex information back at gays (and other straights), and they resent it. ---
**Author:** ![gobear](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/8dc957/32.png) [@gobear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gobear)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2002, 1:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gobear-what-is-up/113593/31 "2002-06-12T13:48:42Z")
Thanks, **Missy2U** for geting my message. As for everybody else, I’m going to have make my writing style much less elliptical and much more straightforward so that my meaning is plain, literal, and unable to be misunderstood. I said, “So Scott Evil went home with a trick last night? So what? What gay man hasn’t done that?” It is not the same as saying that every gay man, without exception, engages in casual sex. I said it as a reflection ofa common experience that the majority of gay men have, in fact, had. If I had said, “Sure, I like chocolate, who doesn’t?” would you accuse me of saying that every human being on the planet wtihout exception likes chcocolate? Now, if **Musicguy** had said simply that he hadn’t had casual sex ever, although he understood that many gay men have, there would have been no problem. Instead, he posted, "Then again, unlike gobears assertion, all gay men don’t pick up tricks and bring them home. " That’s NOT what I said. So I got pissed. I got no problem with any choice **Musicguy** makes in his life, but the fact remains that part of socialization for young gay men is a slut phase. Just about every young gay guy coming out goes through it. Sure, there are exceptions, but they are, you know, **exceptions** , not the rule. Yes, **Wring** , I’ll apologize for the “idiot” remark, too. Hell, I’ll apologize for any damn thing you people want. Why not? I’m in a penitential mood. ---
**Author:** ![belladonna](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/9fc29f/32.png) [@belladonna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/belladonna)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2002, 2:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gobear-what-is-up/113593/32 "2002-06-12T14:06:27Z")
**gobear** –you state > [@](#): > > My contention was that just every gay man, at least once, has given into lust and had casual sex **the grim spectre of red death** calls this a stereotype, rightfully so (see definition above), and repeats it as such: > [@](#): > > “I was stereotyped as a gay man who couldn’t help but give in to my powerful lust (which rendered my will power useless) and have casual sex - like every other gay man on the earth.” You, apparently objecting to the way your own words sound in someone else’s mouth, change it to: > [@](#): > > “I was stereotyped as a gay man who is only human, and gave in to the basic human need for the touch of another man to get some comfort, however briefly-like every other person on the earth.” I can’t help wondering why you don’t just say what you mean in the first place? Instead you’re correcting people who repeat your words, then revealing what you _really_ meant to all of us too “clueless” to read your mind. And really, are you so surprised that some people would object to being lumped into your all-knowing definition of what it means to be gay? I thought we’d gone over this here on numerous occasions, most recently in **Hastur’** [thread,](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?threadid=117003&perpage=50&highlight=its%20not%20a%20lifestyle&pagenumber=1) where you yourself condemned those pushing "one more myth of the ‘gay lifestyle’. " Wouldn’t this be another of those “myths”? That _every_ gay man (except **musicguy** of course–who according to your Korean analagy has some kind of allergy to sex) engages in this specific behavior? That doesn’t fly when people try to claim what Christians **always** do, or what Arabs **always** do, or even what Americans **always** do. Why would you think it would fly with homosexuals? Just because you’re gay, do you really beleive you have some inherent and infallible expertise on what every gay man does or doesn’t want and has or hasn’t done, and anyone who differs is simply the “exception to the rule”? on preview– > [@](#): > > If I had said, “Sure, I like chocolate, who doesn’t?” would you accuse me of saying that every human being on the planet without exception likes chcocolate? No–but if I had then said, “Well, I don’t like chocolate”, would you have insulted me for that? and this > [@](#): > > Now, if Musicguy had said simply that he hadn’t had casual sex ever, although he understood that many gay men have, there would have been no problem. is pretty fucking arrogant IMHO. Maybe–if **you** had simply said that, in your experience, casual sex is commonplace but you understand that it is not universal, there would have been no problem. You’re the one who originally made the claim–you qualify it. Others shouldn’t have to do it for you. ---
**Author:** ![EchoKitty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f4b2a3/32.png) [@EchoKitty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EchoKitty)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2002, 2:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gobear-what-is-up/113593/33 "2002-06-12T14:06:37Z")
Gobear is WRONG, WRONG, WRONG! And hear this…He’s also WRONG! You attacked like a venomous little snake at a comment that quite possibly wasn’t directed to you, per se, but to the general reading audience. JUST A FRIENDLY REMINDER! Conversational tone! Duh! Nobody gives a rats ass who you’re doing or how you’re doing it. You talk like you’re SO DIFFERENT from the rest of the population. Well, women have been sexually repressed for a long time too, and you don’t hear us making generalizations and assumptions about casual sex, frequency, or any of it. Gay, Shmay! You were out of line, rude, and you read WAAAY TOO MUCH into the statement. Get over yourself and your “holier than thou” attitude. ---
**Author:** ![gobear](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/8dc957/32.png) [@gobear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gobear)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2002, 2:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gobear-what-is-up/113593/34 "2002-06-12T14:38:32Z")
**Belladonna** > [@](#): > > That doesn’t fly when people try to claim what Christians always do, or what Arabs always do, or even what Americans always do. Why would you think it would fly with homosexuals? And I used the word “always” where? Istated what I think is a pretty valid general statement about gay men, and **Musicguy** missteated what I said, so I had to reclarify. > [@](#): > > Just because you’re gay, do you really beleive you have some inherent and infallible expertise on what every gay man does or doesn’t want and has or hasn’t done, and anyone who differs is simply the “exception to the rule”? Inherent and infallible? No, Backed up by tons of experience? Absolutely. Certainly, I know more than you do. **Echokitty** , you need to adjust your dosage, sugar. Any issues you may have as a woman are not germane here. Oh, and did you even see where I apologized to **Musicguy**? See, people just see what they want to see. ---
**Author:** ![wring](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/838e76/32.png) [@wring](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wring)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2002, 2:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gobear-what-is-up/113593/35 "2002-06-12T14:41:43Z")
he didn’t “misstate” your words- he \*\*quoted \*\* your words. Your meaning wasn’t clear. The better way to address this would have been “Sorry , my meaning wasn’t clear, this is what I meant” instead of repeating over and over ‘I didn’t say that’. ---
**Author:** ![minty\_green](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f6c823/32.png) [@minty\_green](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/minty_green)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2002, 2:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gobear-what-is-up/113593/36 "2002-06-12T14:47:26Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by gobear \* > Oh, and did you even see where I apologized to **Musicguy**?See, people just see what they want to see. > [@](#): > > Yes, **Wring** , I’ll apologize for the “idiot” remark, too. Hell, I’ll apologize for any damn thing you people want. Why not? I’m in a penitential mood. :rolleyes: Lighten up, **gobear**. You’re one my favorite posters, but this is way too much _Sturm und Drang_ over something you say was just a misreading of what you were attempting to convey. ---
**Author:** ![gobear](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/8dc957/32.png) [@gobear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gobear)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2002, 2:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gobear-what-is-up/113593/37 "2002-06-12T14:52:27Z")
> [@](#): > > he didn’t “misstate” your words- > he quoted your words. **Wring** , no, he did not quote my words. He wrote, "Then again, unlike gobears assertion, all gay men don’t pick up tricks and bring them home. " That is a paraphrase, not a quote, and it was inaccurate. **Minty Green** , thank you for the compliment. I don’t wish to cause such _tsuris_, but a mule is positively weak-willed and compliant compared to me when I am convinced I’m right. ---
**Author:** ![Polycarp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/82dd89/32.png) [@Polycarp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polycarp)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2002, 2:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gobear-what-is-up/113593/38 "2002-06-12T14:58:58Z")
**Gobear** , bud, I detest pile-ons, particularly when they are based on a misinterpretation of language, but I think you’d be among the first to jump on one of my conservative Christian acquaintances if they wandered in here and said that every gay man has engaged in casual sex. **Hamish** has been very explicit that what he is looking for in a relationship is permanence; so has **scott evil** , whose report of one episode of casual sex that he engaged in started this whole furore. I give you as an alternate example the late Fr. Mychal Judge, being promoted for sainthood, as an example of an out gay man who may have been tempted to casual sex but who, for his own reasons of belief, felt called to celibacy – and there has been no story of his ever breaking those vows. Yet he was far more of an activist and force for good for all gay people than half the gay men we know – and that is no real insult to them. My friend Grace is a devout Christian and a Lesbian – happily married to another woman (the state may not think so, but they had a formal religious service where they exchanged vows, and (IMHO) in the eyes of God and in my eyes, that means marriage), and with their shared belief that sex should not be engaged in outside marriage. It’s my understanding that **Christina25** holds pretty much the same stance. (Granted you were not talking about gay _women_, but I think the sentiments of Lesbians as regards casual sex are at least tangentially applicable.) Stereotyping may have its place, when one is trying to make generalizations about a given group of people who fall into a given classification system. If you had said something like “every gay man has lusted after another guy at some time in his life,” there would have been nothing wrong with that statement. You made a universal statement that was not quite valid. Your intent was to generalize in defense of **scott** , and that is totally understandable. But you’ve been called on it. I have no grounds to judge what you do with your life – that’s been a large part of the argument that’s been going on here, and I hope I’ve spoken out forcefully enough on people being judgmental of your sex life and those of others. But as a friend who I hope has proved that friendship, I do have to make clear to you that you did err in what you said – for the best of reasons, IMHO, and quite forgiveably. But since you’ve been called on it in this nitpicky thread, be a _mensch_ and own up to the fact that it _was_ an erroneous statement, however well intended. Suits? ---
**Author:** ![Polycarp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/82dd89/32.png) [@Polycarp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polycarp)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2002, 3:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gobear-what-is-up/113593/39 "2002-06-12T15:03:35Z")
Added after seeing your post which wasn’t there when I started composing the above: Yes, I know you were speaking as a not-all-people generalization, but that’s not what you **said** – and **Musicguy** , as an exception to the generalization, did take offense at how you characterized him as a gay man in “what gay man hasn’t?” – well, **he** hasn’t. In my eyes, it’s a tempest in a teapot, but what disturbs a person is what disturbs that person. Your intentions were good, but you ended up, taking the precise words you said, slandering **Musicguy** by a generalization probably true for most gay men but not for him. ---
**Author:** ![Tiburon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e36b37/32.png) [@Tiburon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tiburon)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2002, 3:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gobear-what-is-up/113593/40 "2002-06-12T15:03:44Z")
Hmm. I read the original thread yesterday. I get tired of my SO telling me _every single time_ I get into the car to “Drive Safely.” What does she think I’m going to do? Bump a few pedestrians for fun?? I’d be willing to bet, though, that most of us have, at some time, driven unsafely. Here’s the funny thing - I _know_ I should drive safely and sometimes I _still_ don’t but I sure as hell have tried a lot harder to be careful because and since I keep hearing “Drive Safely” in my head. And I don’t take it to mean, “You clearly don’t know to drive safely unless I tell you…” - I _understand_ that it is another way of saying, “Hey…be careful…I care about you.” I think that the posts about safe sex were not so much a lecture as a general feeling of “Oh man, hope you were careful.” The board has often expressed concern for people we don’t know - is this _that_ much different? Shit, I’ve been fucking driving for about 15 years and have never had an accident - not because I’ve never been risky, though. I still appreciate that someone cares enough to remind me to be careful. Sure, it gets OLD and ANNOYING but Christ, this doesn’t seem like the thing to make into WWIII. I think, Gobear, that what basically happened was that you rattled off a post that, in a spoken conversation, probably would have had a lot of nodding heads, to be quite honest - because people probably would have understood that you didn’t mean _EVERY_ gay man…but the written word comes across differently here (and you are, as a veteran, expected to know that). And when someone reacted to it as such, you went a little into the deep end of the pool. Eh, I think an apology is due and some backing down. You’re a tiger. 😃 Tibs. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gobear-what-is-up/113593.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gobear-what-is-up/113593.md?page=3)