# Goblins webcomic discussion **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [March 3, 2010, 2:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/goblins-webcomic-discussion/531075 "2010-03-03T02:04:47Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 16
**Author:** ![Lok](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e8c25b/32.png) [@Lok](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lok)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2013, 3:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/goblins-webcomic-discussion/531075/301 "2013-09-21T03:37:38Z")
> [@jayjay](#): > > Was it ever made explicit that there’s a meta-level in this comic where these are actually PCs of players in another universe, or has it always been the OOTS premise where the universe works according to the rules of D&D, but there isn’t some kind of meta-world where the characters are actually being “played” by people? It is pretty explicit in [this comic](http://www.goblinscomic.org/07152005/). ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2013, 4:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/goblins-webcomic-discussion/531075/302 "2013-09-21T04:57:09Z")
> [@Mister\_Rik](#): > > Kin’s race (dammit, I can’t remember what her race is called — I want to say “naga”, but I know that’s not right. She’s a Yuan-Ti. ---
**Author:** ![Mister\_Rik](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mister_rik/32/491_2.png) [@Mister\_Rik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mister_Rik)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2013, 5:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/goblins-webcomic-discussion/531075/303 "2013-09-21T05:38:49Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > She’s a Yuan-Ti. Thank you 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2013, 6:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/goblins-webcomic-discussion/531075/304 "2013-09-21T06:07:17Z")
> [@Mister\_Rik](#): > > - And given that the party has apparently been through nearly 2 million iterations of the maze, they’ve probably leveled up quite a few times. In [this](http://www.goblinscomic.org/09092013/) comic, one of the Kins states that, because of changes they’ve made to the maze that will allow them to remember each run, they’ll be able to retain the experience they get for each run. So while they’ve probably leveled up at least once during this run, they don’t have any extra levels from previous attempts. It also suggests that, when the maze resets, our set of characters will also remember this run. I’m guessing that with this edge, they win after another two or three tries, which will happen off-panel - we’ll just see them pop out of the big magic sword. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2013, 6:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/goblins-webcomic-discussion/531075/305 "2013-09-21T06:21:36Z")
> [@jayjay](#): > > Was it ever made explicit that there’s a meta-level in this comic where these are actually PCs of players in another universe, or has it always been the OOTS premise where the universe works according to the rules of D&D, but there isn’t some kind of meta-world where the characters are actually being “played” by people? There’s one other reference to the players behind the characters. You’ll occasionally see Minmax inexplicably flirting with Fogarth. The explanation is the Minmax’s player is a man and Fogarth’s player is a woman. ---
**Author:** ![Mister\_Rik](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mister_rik/32/491_2.png) [@Mister\_Rik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mister_Rik)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2013, 6:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/goblins-webcomic-discussion/531075/306 "2013-09-21T06:38:41Z")
But, Dear Og, the scene from a while back, where Minmax realizes that Kin isn’t a monster, and it was obvious that he was falling in love with her, was one of the very few tear-jerking moments in my history of reading webcomics. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2013, 8:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/goblins-webcomic-discussion/531075/307 "2013-09-21T08:08:14Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > There’s one other reference to the players behind the characters. You’ll occasionally see Minmax inexplicably flirting with Fogarth. The explanation is the Minmax’s player is a man and Fogarth’s player is a woman. Another reference is [these](http://www.goblinscomic.org/08192005/) [two](http://www.goblinscomic.org/08202005/) pages, where it’s not-quite-stated that the player behind the ultra-busty drow sorceress is a “horny teenaged guy”. ---
**Author:** ![shantih](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f6c823/32.png) [@shantih](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/shantih)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2013, 12:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/goblins-webcomic-discussion/531075/308 "2013-09-21T12:28:29Z")
As far as how they get out of the MoM: one possibility is surely that Minmax and Forgath use the Jade Teapot to teleport/plane shift/whatevs over to Complains et al since they still believe that the goblins are evil and want to destroy the world. The Jade Teapot does not itself teleport away from its location and needs to be physically carried from place to place. Kin’s quest from before she entered the story was to retrieve the JT for her clan. So, Minmax and Forgath pop away to do their thing, and Kin stays with the other Kins in the Maze until she can win and reenter her own reality with the JT as her prize. ---
**Author:** ![Lok](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e8c25b/32.png) [@Lok](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lok)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2013, 4:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/goblins-webcomic-discussion/531075/309 "2013-09-21T16:04:43Z")
I’m not seeing Kin and Minmax separating voluntarily anytime in the near future. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2013, 4:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/goblins-webcomic-discussion/531075/310 "2013-09-21T16:33:11Z")
> [@Lok](#): > > I’m not seeing Kin and Minmax separating voluntarily anytime in the near future. Likewise. Also, there’s already three separate narratives going on here - seems like a bad idea to split one of them even further. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2013, 5:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/goblins-webcomic-discussion/531075/311 "2013-09-21T17:08:21Z")
> [@shantih](#): > > As far as how they get out of the MoM: one possibility is surely that Minmax and Forgath use the Jade Teapot to teleport/plane shift/whatevs over to Complains et al since they still believe that the goblins are evil and want to destroy the world. The Jade Teapot does not itself teleport away from its location and needs to be physically carried from place to place. Kin’s quest from before she entered the story was to retrieve the JT for her clan. So, Minmax and Forgath pop away to do their thing, and Kin stays with the other Kins in the Maze until she can win and reenter her own reality with the JT as her prize. You seem to be talking as though the Maze isn’t about to reset RIGHT NOW, and put them back into their display cases. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2013, 5:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/goblins-webcomic-discussion/531075/312 "2013-09-21T17:16:59Z")
> [@Mister\_Rik](#): > > This is kind of what I was thinking when I mentioned that some of Minmax’s actions, including this latest one, might be the result of a high Wisdom score. Kin’s race (dammit, I can’t remember what her race is called — I want to say “naga”, but I know that’s not right. And I can’t look it up because all of my D&D books were stolen last year) is noted for having very high Intelligence scores, and wizards and psions are common amongst them. Intelligence, as a stat, is good for analyzing problems, as we saw with the analytical discussion of how the psion’s gears worked, but Wisdom is better for quicker decision-making. It looks to me like Minmax used the Sense Motive skill and figured out how to foil the psion’s plan. He took what he’d been told about how winning the maze meant you could never enter it again, listened to the psion explaining his plan, and immediately realized how he could defeat him: by forcing him to win. > > I will not be surprised if we soon discover that Minmax has taken a level or two in Paladin. Another possibility just occurred to me. Minmax, it’s generally assumed, has threes in both Int and Wis. That’s not just stupid - that’s either profoundly retarded, or severely brain damaged. Going by his stats, Minmax is in _Flowers for Algernon_ territory. So, when he touched the gears in the maze a few strips back, did it heal _that_, too? ---
**Author:** ![One\_And\_Only\_Wanderers](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/838e76/32.png) [@One\_And\_Only\_Wanderers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/One_And_Only_Wanderers)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2013, 5:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/goblins-webcomic-discussion/531075/313 "2013-09-21T17:28:04Z")
doubt it as that’s his natural state ---
**Author:** ![Lok](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e8c25b/32.png) [@Lok](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lok)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2013, 5:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/goblins-webcomic-discussion/531075/314 "2013-09-21T17:29:53Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > Another possibility just occurred to me. Minmax, it’s generally assumed, has threes in both Int and Wis. That’s not just stupid - that’s either profoundly retarded, or severely brain damaged. Going by his stats, Minmax is in _Flowers for Algernon_ territory. > > So, when he touched the gears in the maze a few strips back, did it heal _that_, too? I don’t think his stats are really that low. More like 5 or 6 for Int and 7 or 8 for Wis. A 3 Int is pretty much too stupid to talk. And there are plenty of Alts in the MoM that we have seen that are even dumber than our Minmax. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2013, 5:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/goblins-webcomic-discussion/531075/315 "2013-09-21T17:35:36Z")
> [@One\_And\_Only\_Wanderers](#): > > doubt it as that’s his natural state Having two normal eyes is also his “natural state,” but the machine didn’t fix that, it just changed it purple. ---
**Author:** ![One\_And\_Only\_Wanderers](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/838e76/32.png) [@One\_And\_Only\_Wanderers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/One_And_Only_Wanderers)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2013, 5:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/goblins-webcomic-discussion/531075/316 "2013-09-21T17:38:08Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > Having two normal eyes is also his “natural state,” but the machine didn’t fix that, it just changed it purple. well yeah, he now has a working eye in purple like Forgath’s beard is whatever colour that was. Natural state but using their Individual Magic Energy to provide. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2013, 5:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/goblins-webcomic-discussion/531075/317 "2013-09-21T17:58:56Z")
First off, the maze isn’t about to reset. One of the changes the Kins made to the gears was to shift the reset from automatic to manual. So the current group has some time to figure out what they’re going to do. Second, I was expecting the group to throw psi-max into one of the oblivion holes, not into the finish circle. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2013, 6:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/goblins-webcomic-discussion/531075/318 "2013-09-21T18:01:00Z")
> [@One\_And\_Only\_Wanderers](#): > > well yeah, he now has a working eye in purple like Forgath’s beard is whatever colour that was. Natural state but using their Individual Magic Energy to provide. Right. Kin’s tail is also a different color. Whatever the gears did, it clearly didn’t return them to their “natural state,” but some rough approximation - particularly rough in Minmax’s case, as he still has the scar and is missing a pupil. I wouldn’t be surprised if there’s a lot more to what those gears did to everyone than is immediately apparent. I also wonder if it’s significant that Minmax’s scar turned the same purple as psi-Minmax. ---
**Author:** ![One\_And\_Only\_Wanderers](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/838e76/32.png) [@One\_And\_Only\_Wanderers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/One_And_Only_Wanderers)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2013, 6:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/goblins-webcomic-discussion/531075/319 "2013-09-21T18:24:08Z")
The explanation here is what leads e to believe they have only been healed of damage. Minmax’s mental deficiencies are normal to him, I believe they remain > **[Goblins -](https://www.goblinscomic.org/08252013-2/)** > > Goblins is the story of a fantasy rpg through the eyes of the low-level monsters. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2013, 6:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/goblins-webcomic-discussion/531075/320 "2013-09-21T18:29:33Z")
And four panels later, we see that her assumption about the gears is at least partially incorrect, when they don’t heal Minmax’s scar. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/goblins-webcomic-discussion/531075.md?page=15) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/goblins-webcomic-discussion/531075.md?page=17)