# God and hindsight bias **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [April 7, 2010, 4:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-and-hindsight-bias/535292 "2010-04-07T16:48:12Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Revenant\_Threshold](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f1d935/32.png) [@Revenant\_Threshold](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revenant_Threshold)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2010, 5:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-and-hindsight-bias/535292/21 "2010-04-08T17:24:44Z")
> [@ITR\_champion](#): > > I also think that it’s quite reasonable for athletes to give thanks to God for a win. Without God there wouldn’t be any universe, any human race, or any athletic contest at all, so therefore God does play a vital role in any win. It’s really not different logic than thanking someone who sponsored your team. If you lose, you don’t start complaining that the sponsor is responsible for your loss. That seems illogical. I’d make the distinction that with God, as with the sponsoring team, the idea is that they allow you to be able to take part; whereas effort on your part during a race and training are things that allow you to actually win. Thanking God or the sponsor for the chance makes sense, in those terms, but thanking for the win doesn’t unless you’re also willing to blame them for the loss. It’s actually two different parts of the event you’ve conflated, I think. ---
**Author:** ![Nzinga\_Seated](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/b5ac83/32.png) [@Nzinga\_Seated](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nzinga_Seated)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2010, 6:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-and-hindsight-bias/535292/22 "2010-04-08T18:14:16Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > Reflexes, probably. Thank you. Had a rough day, needed a laugh. ---
**Author:** ![Askance](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/askance/32/8281_2.png) [@Askance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Askance)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2010, 1:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-and-hindsight-bias/535292/23 "2010-04-09T01:17:12Z")
And now you ignore my question about God running short of time. > [@kanicbird](#): > > We do not understand death as God does, for instance, once Adam and Eve eat of the fruit they died that day. No they didn’t, the bible explicitly says they will live on: [QUOTE=GEN 3:16-19] Unto the woman he said, I will greatly multiply thy sorrow and thy conception; in sorrow thou shalt bring forth children; and thy desire [shall be] to thy husband, and he shall rule over thee. And unto Adam he said, Because thou hast hearkened unto the voice of thy wife, and hast eaten of the tree, of which I commanded thee, saying, Thou shalt not eat of it: cursed [is] the ground for thy sake; in sorrow shalt thou eat [of] it all the days of thy life; Thorns also and thistles shall it bring forth to thee; and thou shalt eat the herb of the field; In the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread, till thou return unto the ground; for out of it wast thou taken: for dust thou [art], and unto dust shalt thou return. [/QUOTE] There’s not the slightest implication that they die then, even metaphorically. ---
**Author:** ![Perciful](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/b38774/32.png) [@Perciful](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Perciful)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2010, 4:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-and-hindsight-bias/535292/24 "2010-04-09T04:02:43Z")
I think you are mistaking hindsight with belief. To me there are no coincidences, just God instances. I understand why you can’t understand it because people of faith think, Thy will be done, not mine. If I pray for someone to get better and they die how is that self centered? If you look at everything with faith then you know God is responsible for the outcome. When you have no faith you believe you are responsible for the outcome. People that pray for the most part pray for others and not themselves. I do pray for wisdom when I have to make a decision and then in time the answer comes. When a person says God is testing my faith it means something different to me. It means that I need to rise to the occasion and be strong. We are being tested all day long and everyday. As for the friend that died his faith was not tested because he died. We all have to die. It is hard on the people left behind but with faith you can get through the loss. I would look in the bible under purification. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2010, 11:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-and-hindsight-bias/535292/25 "2010-04-09T11:06:42Z")
> [@Perciful](#): > > If I pray for someone to get better and they die how is that self centered? Because it presumes that you can change the will of god. ---
**Author:** ![Staggerlee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/staggerlee/32/3134_2.png) [@Staggerlee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Staggerlee)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2010, 11:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-and-hindsight-bias/535292/26 "2010-04-09T11:35:59Z")
> [@Perciful](#): > > I do pray for wisdom when I have to make a decision and then in time **the** answer comes. While for godless me, **an** answer comes, having thought about a decision to be made. Potentially dangerous magical thinking to imagine that God provides, or even assists you in finding, ‘the’ answer. ---
**Author:** ![ShibbOleth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/848f3c/32.png) [@ShibbOleth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ShibbOleth)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2010, 11:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-and-hindsight-bias/535292/27 "2010-04-09T11:49:29Z")
> [@ivan\_astikov](#): > > It always makes me laugh when an athlete assigns their success to god. > > Quite obviously, god has favourites when he is watching sporting events. And the best thing about being omnipresent is he can watch more than one contest at a time. God had Butler in his bracket, at least until the Final, then he put it all on Duke (with Butler to cover). ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2010, 12:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-and-hindsight-bias/535292/28 "2010-04-09T12:40:54Z")
> [@Perciful](#): > > If you look at everything with faith then you know God is responsible for the outcome. And hell-o Problem of Evil. Been a long time, at least three or four minutes, since you cropped up. ---
**Author:** ![monavis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e0b2c6/32.png) [@monavis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monavis)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2010, 12:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-and-hindsight-bias/535292/29 "2010-04-09T12:54:33Z")
> [@Perciful](#): > > I think you are mistaking hindsight with belief. To me there are no coincidences, just God instances. I understand why you can’t understand it because people of faith think, Thy will be done, not mine. > > If I pray for someone to get better and they die how is that self centered? If you look at everything with faith then you know God is responsible for the outcome. When you have no faith you believe you are responsible for the outcome. People that pray for the most part pray for others and not themselves. I do pray for wisdom when I have to make a decision and then in time the answer comes. > > When a person says God is testing my faith it means something different to me. It means that I need to rise to the occasion and be strong. We are being tested all day long and everyday. As for the friend that died his faith was not tested because he died. We all have to die. It is hard on the people left behind but with faith you can get through the loss. > > I would look in the bible under purification. You are correct about one thing…It is just Faith, not fact and if faith helps a person that is a good thing for them, but for some people it is not enough, for them truth is more important. The Bible may have some truth but it also has contradictions so it cannot be used as proof of anything, truth is not contradictory. The Bible is what humans say, and think that a God said, or inspired, but there is nothing to back it up. ---
**Author:** ![ITR\_champion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/c67d28/32.png) [@ITR\_champion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ITR_champion)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2010, 4:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-and-hindsight-bias/535292/30 "2010-04-09T16:21:59Z")
> [@hotflungwok](#): > > But in that example you’re talking about an obvious cause & effect. When there’s a tornado and one guy survives and everyone is killed horribly, people thank god he survived, but no one curses god for having caused the tornado in the first place. No one can demonstrate that god anything to do with the tornado, and yet they’re giving him praise for the good things, and not finding fault with the bad things. Even if I was killed by a tornado tomorrow, there would still be ample reason to praise God for the 28 good years of life that I have had. Without God I would never have existed at all, so regardless of when my life terminates or what I have to endure during that life it’s still the case that all the good things in my life are a gift from God. If somebody survives a tornado, that’s an example of a good thing in life, so then they praise God for it. As for your claim that “no one curses god”, I think there are plenty of people who curse God, they just don’t get any benefit from doing so. > [@Frylock](#): > > If that is their basis for praise, then they will also publicly and joyfully praise God for their losses as well. But they don’t. So it is not their basis. Perhaps it is arguable that it should be their basis. But it manifestly is not. The _basis_ for thanking God after winning an athletic event is that without God there would be neither any athletic events to win nor any athletes to win them. The _reason_ why an athlete praises God after winning is most likely that they’re aware that after a victory when people are heaping praise on them is exactly when they’re most susceptible to the sin of pride, so that’s when it’s most important to remind themselves to be humble before God. After a loss there’s no such susceptibility. (But I don’t doubt that many athletes do give thanks after a loss as well.) > [@panache45](#): > > I love it when a natural disaster occurs, devastating a city, and the handful of survivors give God credit for sparing them. Who do they think caused the disaster in the first place? Personally I don’t like it at all when a natural disaster devastates a city, but I guess we all have our own opinions. ---
**Author:** ![Frylock](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ce7236/32.png) [@Frylock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frylock)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2010, 4:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-and-hindsight-bias/535292/31 "2010-04-09T16:30:26Z")
> [@ITR\_champion](#): > > (But I don’t doubt that many athletes do give thanks after a loss as well.) That’s very sweet if they do. ;)😛 ---
**Author:** ![hotflungwok](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/edb3f5/32.png) [@hotflungwok](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hotflungwok)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2010, 4:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-and-hindsight-bias/535292/32 "2010-04-09T16:40:50Z")
> [@ITR\_champion](#): > > Even if I was killed by a tornado tomorrow, there would still be ample reason to praise God for the 28 good years of life that I have had. When a tornado plows through a neighborhood and kills all but one person, you don’t hear people saying ‘Well those other people had X good years, lets thank god for that.’ They say ‘God protected that one guy! Praise god!’ > [@](#): > > Without God I would never have existed at all, so regardless of when my life terminates or what I have to endure during that life it’s still the case that all the good things in my life are a gift from God. You’ve had plenty of opportunity to show that this assertion is more than empty words, and have failed to every single time. I don’t hold out much hope that this time will be different, but you must be allowed to defend your statement, so again I’ll ask for evidence that this is true. > [@](#): > > If somebody survives a tornado, that’s an example of a good thing in life, so then they praise God for it. But god caused the bad things too, not just the good things. Even if god did actually protect that guy from the tornado, god sent the tornado to kill all those other people. Those people died at god’s hands, he is responsible, he did it, etc. Praising god for the good things, and ignoring that fact that he also caused the bad things isn’t faith, it’s Stockholm syndrome. > [@](#): > > As for your claim that “no one curses god”, I think there are plenty of people who curse God, they just don’t get any benefit from doing so. And the people who praise god benefit from this how? ---
**Author:** ![Thudlow\_Boink](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thudlow_boink/32/320_2.png) [@Thudlow\_Boink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thudlow_Boink)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2010, 4:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-and-hindsight-bias/535292/33 "2010-04-09T16:53:27Z")
> [@hotflungwok](#): > > And the people who praise god benefit from this how? Gratitude increases happiness. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2010, 5:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-and-hindsight-bias/535292/34 "2010-04-09T17:04:14Z")
> [@Thudlow\_Boink](#): > > Gratitude increases happiness. If a doctor works for hours on end to save a person’s life, and the family gives the credit to, and praises, God, how might that effect the doctor’s happiness? ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2010, 5:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-and-hindsight-bias/535292/35 "2010-04-09T17:38:32Z")
> [@jsgoddess](#): > > When I was a believer I found it odd, and now find it even odder, that people don’t hold God to the same standards they hold the average human. I’m not expected to read your mind, but I’m expected to read God’s mind. You are responsible for the bad results of your actions, but God isn’t responsible for bad results of his. For you, the ends don’t justify the means, but for God that’s absolutely acceptable. The biggest problem with “ends justify the means” defense of God (which is really just an iteration of the “Mysterious Ways” defense) is that it is ligically impossible for God to _require_ a means to an end. God can instantly achieve any end simply by willing it. If he wants an omelet, boom there’s an omelet. No eggs need be broken. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2010, 5:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-and-hindsight-bias/535292/36 "2010-04-09T17:44:43Z")
> [@Perciful](#): > > I think you are mistaking hindsight with belief. To me there are no coincidences, just God instances. I understand why you can’t understand it because people of faith think, Thy will be done, not mine. > > If I pray for someone to get better and they die how is that self centered? If you look at everything with faith then you know God is responsible for the outcome. When you have no faith you believe you are responsible for the outcome. People that pray for the most part pray for others and not themselves. I do pray for wisdom when I have to make a decision and then in time the answer comes. Why bother to pray at all if your request doesn’t matter to God? God’s mind is already made up as to what will happen, right? It was made up before he created the universe. He’s locked into his set list. He doesn’t do requests. So qhy are you making requests that he logically can’t grant? > [@](#): > > When a person says God is testing my faith it means something different to me. It means that I need to rise to the occasion and be strong. We are being tested all day long and everyday. As for the friend that died his faith was not tested because he died. We all have to die. It is hard on the people left behind but with faith you can get through the loss. Why does God need to test people’s faith if he already knows exactly how strong it is. It is not possible for God to acquire more information about you, so why would he do experiments on you? Why does God care about faith anyway? How is it of any moral value, and if it really IS that important, then why doesn’t he prove his own existence? ---
**Author:** ![Thudlow\_Boink](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thudlow_boink/32/320_2.png) [@Thudlow\_Boink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thudlow_Boink)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2010, 7:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-and-hindsight-bias/535292/37 "2010-04-09T19:10:29Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > If a doctor works for hours on end to save a person’s life, and the family gives the credit to, and praises, God, how might that effect the doctor’s happiness? Irrelevent to the point I was trying to make (admittedly, not entirely clearly), which was that people who are grateful for the good things in their lives tend to be happier than people who aren’t. (Studies bear this out: [here’s](http://www.spring.org.uk/2007/09/practicing-gratitude-can-increase.php) the first of several that Google turned up.) You do raise an interesting question regarding gratitude towards God vs. gratitude towards people: Are people who are thankful toward God for the good things they experience less likely, or more likely, to also be thankful towards the human beings who share the credit for allowing them to have those good things? I don’t know. ---
**Author:** ![kanicbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/5f8ce5/32.png) [@kanicbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kanicbird)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2010, 10:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-and-hindsight-bias/535292/38 "2010-04-09T22:22:30Z")
> [@Askance](#): > > And now you ignore my question about God running short of time. > > No they didn’t, the bible explicitly says they will live on: > > There’s not the slightest implication that they die then, even metaphorically. We don’t understand what death is, the prodigal son was dead, though he had a life. Adam and Eve certainly died that day, and certainly lived on in a much harsher world, much like the prodigal son. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2010, 10:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-and-hindsight-bias/535292/39 "2010-04-09T22:35:08Z")
> [@kanicbird](#): > > We don’t understand what death is, the prodigal son was dead, though he had a life. Adam and Eve certainly died that day, and certainly lived on in a much harsher world, much like the prodigal son. I think it’s cool how you have your own individual theology, that bears little resemblance to anyone else’s. That way, you KNOW that you’re right. ---
**Author:** ![kanicbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/5f8ce5/32.png) [@kanicbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kanicbird)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2010, 11:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-and-hindsight-bias/535292/40 "2010-04-09T23:09:00Z")
> [@Euphonious\_Polemic](#): > > I think it’s cool how you have your own individual theology, that bears little resemblance to anyone else’s. That way, you KNOW that you’re right. What I’ve been told: think for yourself, question authority. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-and-hindsight-bias/535292.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-and-hindsight-bias/535292.md?page=3)