# God and Life **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [April 26, 2018, 10:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-and-life/813192 "2018-04-26T22:27:09Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 14
**Author:** ![Darren\_Garrison](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/darren_garrison/32/92_2.png) [@Darren\_Garrison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darren_Garrison)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2018, 10:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-and-life/813192/261 "2018-05-04T22:29:10Z")
> [@Biffster](#): > > Those things do not appear on my phone. I’m using Tapatalk. Ah. Well, it says “FIGHTING IGNORANCE SINCE 1973”. > [@Biffster](#): > > Which illustrates once again why we can’t assume someone else’s experience is the same as our own. But we _should_ assume that someone else’s physics, biology, and chemistry is the same as our own. You are entitled to your own _opinions_; you are not entitled to your own _facts_. ---
**Author:** ![Biffster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/biffster/32/339_2.png) [@Biffster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biffster)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2018, 10:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-and-life/813192/262 "2018-05-04T22:56:27Z")
> [@Darren\_Garrison](#): > > Ah. Well, it says “FIGHTING IGNORANCE SINCE 1973”. > > But we _should_ assume that someone else’s physics, biology, and chemistry is the same as our own. You are entitled to your own _opinions_; you are not entitled to your own _facts_. Agreed. As they say in Robocop, I’ll buy that for a dollar. ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2018, 1:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-and-life/813192/263 "2018-05-05T01:44:15Z")
> [@Biffster](#): > > I shared an excerpt from a book by Neale Donald Walsch that posits the possibility that God and Life are one and the same. I’m looking at the characteristics of both abstract nouns, God and Life, to see what they might have in common … Here is one thing that they do not have in common: one of them is not an abstraction. Life is a real, observable phenomenon that can be measured, studied and interrupted. Otherwise, you would have to say that heat, sound and waterfalls are abstract nouns when in fact those things are very real. ---
**Author:** ![DavidwithanR](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/3bc359/32.png) [@DavidwithanR](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DavidwithanR)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2018, 4:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-and-life/813192/264 "2018-05-05T04:17:02Z")
Look, Biffster. I challenge you in a specific way. If “God” and “Life” are the same to you, then pick just one of the words, doesn’t matter which one, and promise that for five full years you will never write, type, or say the other one. Just replace both with one or the other - no explaining or apologizing permitted. Deal? This is not for just internet discussions, but your everyday life and all of your work. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2018, 4:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-and-life/813192/265 "2018-05-05T04:20:01Z")
So if you have an empty space that touches exactly three gods, does a new god appear? And if a god has less than two neighbor gods does it die of loneliness, or if more than three neighbor gods, of overcrowding? ---
**Author:** ![Biffster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/biffster/32/339_2.png) [@Biffster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biffster)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2018, 4:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-and-life/813192/266 "2018-05-05T04:55:40Z")
> [@DavidwithanR](#): > > Look, Biffster. I challenge you in a specific way. If “God” and “Life” are the same to you, then pick just one of the words, doesn’t matter which one, and promise that for five full years you will never write, type, or say the other one. Just replace both with one or the other - no explaining or apologizing permitted. Deal? > > This is not for just internet discussions, but your everyday life and all of your work. I think you’ve misunderstood my purpose in starting this thread. I’m interested in discussion. I don’t believe issuing an ultimatum is in the spirit of having a discussion. No offense. ---
**Author:** ![Biffster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/biffster/32/339_2.png) [@Biffster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biffster)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2018, 4:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-and-life/813192/267 "2018-05-05T04:58:03Z")
> [@eschereal](#): > > Here is one thing that they do not have in common: one of them is not an abstraction. Life is a real, observable phenomenon that can be measured, studied and interrupted. Otherwise, you would have to say that heat, sound and waterfalls are abstract nouns when in fact those things are very real. Life is still an abstract noun. You can measure signs of life, like breathing, pulse rate, synaptic response, but these are only circumstantial factors that point to the existence of life. Life itself is still pretty mysterious in and of itself. Life pretty much means not-dead. ---
**Author:** ![DavidwithanR](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/3bc359/32.png) [@DavidwithanR](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DavidwithanR)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2018, 5:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-and-life/813192/268 "2018-05-05T05:51:07Z")
> [@Biffster](#): > > I think you’ve misunderstood my purpose in starting this thread. I’m interested in discussion. I don’t believe issuing an ultimatum is in the spirit of having a discussion. No offense. Since the original discussion as you conceived it is not at all in the spirit of having a discussion\*, I figured my idea would fit in just fine. And I think it’s perfectly productive for you to consider the possibility that the equivalence you’re proposing is incomplete or false. - A discussion always includes an OP who’s perfectly willing to be proved wrong. ---
**Author:** ![Biffster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/biffster/32/339_2.png) [@Biffster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biffster)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2018, 6:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-and-life/813192/269 "2018-05-05T06:31:48Z")
> [@DavidwithanR](#): > > Since the original discussion as you conceived it is not at all in the spirit of having a discussion\*, I figured my idea would fit in just fine. And I think it’s perfectly productive for you to consider the possibility that the equivalence you’re proposing is incomplete or false. > > - A discussion always includes an OP who’s perfectly willing to be proved wrong. Alright. I’ve considered it and I don’t agree. Fair enough? Re: discussion: again, it is not me you are “proving wrong,” but rather the conjecture of Neale Donald Walsch that I offered up as a basis for discussion. Your preoccupation with “proving” things one way or another is your thing, not mine. I’m fine with agreeing to disagree. ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2018, 11:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-and-life/813192/270 "2018-05-05T11:21:32Z")
> [@Biffster](#): > > Alright. I’ve considered it and I don’t agree. Fair enough? > > Re: discussion: again, it is not me you are “proving wrong,” but rather the conjecture of Neale Donald Walsch that I offered up as a basis for discussion. Your preoccupation with “proving” things one way or another is your thing, not mine. I’m fine with agreeing to disagree. I think it’s disingenuous to demure from defending your position by throwing Walsch under the bus every time you are asked to give evidence in support of a conjecture you’ve (also) made, i.e. God=Life. ---
**Author:** ![Darren\_Garrison](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/darren_garrison/32/92_2.png) [@Darren\_Garrison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darren_Garrison)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2018, 11:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-and-life/813192/271 "2018-05-05T11:35:59Z")
> [@Biffster](#): > > Life is still an abstract noun. Only for people that feel that words are meaningless things that can be reframed by every individual to mean whatever they want them to mean if they don’t agree with what other people think it means. It can be defined by people who don’t [blow off talking language](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cJaVBfVizq0). ---
**Author:** ![Biffster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/biffster/32/339_2.png) [@Biffster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biffster)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2018, 12:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-and-life/813192/272 "2018-05-05T12:29:10Z")
> [@Darren\_Garrison](#): > > Only for people that feel that words are meaningless things that can be reframed by every individual to mean whatever they want them to mean if they don’t agree with what other people think it means. It can be defined by people who don’t [blow off talking language](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cJaVBfVizq0). Can you demonstrate how life is not an abstract noun? ---
**Author:** ![Biffster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/biffster/32/339_2.png) [@Biffster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biffster)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2018, 12:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-and-life/813192/273 "2018-05-05T12:32:11Z")
> [@QuickSilver](#): > > I think it’s disingenuous to demure from defending your position by throwing Walsch under the bus every time you are asked to give evidence in support of a conjecture you’ve (also) made, i.e. God=Life. How am I throwing Walsch under the bus? As I’ve stated many times, he’s where this idea came from for me. And I think it’s an idea worth discussing. I’m not sure why you’re so bothered by it. ---
**Author:** ![Darren\_Garrison](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/darren_garrison/32/92_2.png) [@Darren\_Garrison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darren_Garrison)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2018, 12:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-and-life/813192/274 "2018-05-05T12:39:37Z")
> [@Biffster](#): > > Can you demonstrate how life is not an abstract noun? Sure–I can point out that “abstract” means “existing in thought or as an idea but not having a physical or concrete existence.” But you have probably redefined “abstract” to mean “a type of hat.” ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2018, 12:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-and-life/813192/275 "2018-05-05T12:52:18Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > So if you have an empty space that touches exactly three gods, does a new god appear? And if a god has less than two neighbor gods does it die of loneliness, or if more than three neighbor gods, of overcrowding? Mongo just pawn in Game of God. ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2018, 12:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-and-life/813192/276 "2018-05-05T12:53:41Z")
> [@Biffster](#): > > How am I throwing Walsch under the bus? As I’ve stated many times, he’s where this idea came from for me. And I think it’s an idea worth discussing. I’m not sure why you’re so bothered by it. Time permitting, I’m annoyed by discussions of nonsense. It’s a personal choice, and place holder for a better hobby. ---
**Author:** ![Biffster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/biffster/32/339_2.png) [@Biffster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biffster)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2018, 3:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-and-life/813192/277 "2018-05-05T15:12:24Z")
> [@Darren\_Garrison](#): > > Sure–I can point out that “abstract” means “existing in thought or as an idea but not having a physical or concrete existence.” > > But you have probably redefined “abstract” to mean “a type of hat.” So take it one step further; life has no physical or concrete existence. We infer its existence by looking for signs of life, but life itself is a concept. So is death, for that matter. ---
**Author:** ![Biffster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/biffster/32/339_2.png) [@Biffster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biffster)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2018, 3:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-and-life/813192/278 "2018-05-05T15:14:48Z")
> [@QuickSilver](#): > > Time permitting, I’m annoyed by discussions of nonsense. It’s a personal choice, and place holder for a better hobby. And yet here you are, taking part in a discussion of nonsense. Either you’re not as annoyed as you claim to be, or this is not actually nonsense. ---
**Author:** ![Biffster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/biffster/32/339_2.png) [@Biffster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biffster)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2018, 3:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-and-life/813192/279 "2018-05-05T15:24:26Z")
Here’s a challenge: find a picture of life. Should be easy, right? Just find a picture of something that’s alive. Ah yes, but that would be something that has the quality or characteristic of possessing life, not a picture of life itself. Why? Because life is an abstract noun. We talk about it as though we all understand its meaning implicitly, when in fact we are talking about something invisible. For me, so it is with God. I can’t see God directly, but I can feel the impact of His or Her or Its presence. And now I wait for people to tell me why I’m out to lunch. Such fun for a Saturday morning. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2018, 3:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-and-life/813192/280 "2018-05-05T15:28:15Z")
> [@Biffster](#): > > So take it one step further; life has no physical or concrete existence. We infer its existence by looking for signs of life, but life itself is a concept. So is death, for that matter. So by your logic, “God” is “Life”, “God” is “Death”, and “Life” is “Death”? Congrats-using that same level of reasoning, because both cats and dogs are animals, cats are dogs. BTW, until Walsch pops in here to discuss his reasoning, you get to be his surrogate because you are presenting this idea to us. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-and-life/813192.md?page=13) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-and-life/813192.md?page=15)