# God and Life **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [April 26, 2018, 10:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-and-life/813192 "2018-04-26T22:27:09Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 18
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2018, 11:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-and-life/813192/341 "2018-05-06T23:01:21Z")
When I read that this wooster **Biffster** keeps pushing on us (“_I’m_ not saying this-_He_ is!”) also a pushes that “Indigo child” crap, the chance that I would take him as any sort of authority on this topic went right out the window. ---
**Author:** ![Biffster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/biffster/32/339_2.png) [@Biffster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biffster)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2018, 11:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-and-life/813192/342 "2018-05-06T23:27:20Z")
> [@DavidwithanR](#): > > What’s your own personal opinion on it? I like it. I think it makes sense. I think the reason the God concept came about in the first place was because humans were trying to describe a feeling they had that they were somehow connected to the universe. This turned into the various mythologies that have existed pretty much since the beginning of recorded time, but somewhere along the line, the mythologies were misinterpreted as actual history. I think that initial feeling—that we’re all connected somehow, whether or not we realize it—is what religion should really be about. We might treat each better as a result. As far as Life goes, well I definitely believe in it. And if it helps me or anyone else to think of Life and God as being different names for ultimately the same phenomena, then great. I think we humans have a habit of anthropomorphizing God too much—remaking Him or Her or It in our own image. If we watch and learn from the life cycle, I think we’d be on a better track as a species. If that’s too “flakey” for you, so be it. It’s my opinion and I’m sticking to it. ---
**Author:** ![Biffster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/biffster/32/339_2.png) [@Biffster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biffster)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2018, 11:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-and-life/813192/343 "2018-05-06T23:29:00Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > When I read that this wooster **Biffster** keeps pushing on us (“_I’m_ not saying this-_He_ is!”) also a pushes that “Indigo child” crap, the chance that I would take him as any sort of authority on this topic went right out the window. And that’s your right to feel that way. I’m not asking you to agree with me. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2018, 11:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-and-life/813192/344 "2018-05-06T23:30:51Z")
> [@Biffster](#): > > And that’s your right to feel that way. I’m not asking you to agree with me. No, you just want people who disagree with you to take it elsewhere. ---
**Author:** ![Biffster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/biffster/32/339_2.png) [@Biffster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biffster)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2018, 11:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-and-life/813192/345 "2018-05-06T23:35:15Z")
> [@DavidwithanR](#): > > What’s your own personal opinion on it? Sorry, I answered the wrong question. Since I believe that both the devil and the traditional concept of God are mythical, it’s really just word game. It came from the philisoraptor meme. I’m a fan of Mr. Deity, so I’m inclined to think God and Lucy/Lucifer work together on a lot of things. ---
**Author:** ![Biffster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/biffster/32/339_2.png) [@Biffster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biffster)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2018, 11:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-and-life/813192/346 "2018-05-06T23:36:15Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > No, you just want people who disagree with you to take it elsewhere. Not at all. Keep it here, by all means. Just try to be respectful. I’m trying to be. ---
**Author:** ![DavidwithanR](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/3bc359/32.png) [@DavidwithanR](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DavidwithanR)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2018, 8:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-and-life/813192/347 "2018-05-07T08:30:19Z")
> [@Biffster](#): > > I like it. I think it makes sense. I think the reason the God concept came about in the first place was because humans were trying to describe a feeling they had that they were somehow connected to the universe. This turned into the various mythologies that have existed pretty much since the beginning of recorded time, but somewhere along the line, the mythologies were misinterpreted as actual history. I think that initial feeling—that we’re all connected somehow, whether or not we realize it—is what religion should really be about. We might treat each better as a result. > > As far as Life goes, well I definitely believe in it. And if it helps me or anyone else to think of Life and God as being different names for ultimately the same phenomena, then great. I think we humans have a habit of anthropomorphizing God too much—remaking Him or Her or It in our own image. If we watch and learn from the life cycle, I think we’d be on a better track as a species. > > If that’s too “flakey” for you, so be it. It’s my opinion and I’m sticking to it. It’s not flakey in the least. It’s disingenuous and idiotic. ---
**Author:** ![Biffster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/biffster/32/339_2.png) [@Biffster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biffster)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2018, 1:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-and-life/813192/348 "2018-05-07T13:27:03Z")
> [@DavidwithanR](#): > > It’s not flakey in the least. It’s disingenuous and idiotic. Glad you’re doing your best to be respectful. ---
**Author:** ![Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/budget_player_cadet/32/205_2.png) [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Budget_Player_Cadet)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2018, 2:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-and-life/813192/349 "2018-05-07T14:05:46Z")
> [@Biffster](#): > > Glad you’re doing your best to be respectful. I’ll take intellectual honesty over respect any day of the week. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2018, 2:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-and-life/813192/350 "2018-05-07T14:15:31Z")
> [@Biffster](#): > > Glad you’re doing your best to be respectful. Is this your way of avoiding responding to the arguments presented? Could you possibly tell us what is wrong with the opposing arguments, instead of just saying that none of it changes your mind? If you don’t say _why_ you are not swayed by any of the arguments, then one may assume that you intend to dismiss out of hand any opinions/theories/facts that differ from your own. The fact that you are “polite” when you do so doesn’t excuse this. ---
**Author:** ![DavidwithanR](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/3bc359/32.png) [@DavidwithanR](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DavidwithanR)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2018, 4:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-and-life/813192/351 "2018-05-07T16:36:27Z")
> [@Biffster](#): > > Glad you’re doing your best to be respectful. Do you believe (as you seem to believe) that saying soothing pretty words while completely disregarding what others say, is somehow respectful? ---
**Author:** ![begbert2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/begbert2/32/3357_2.png) [@begbert2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/begbert2)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2018, 6:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-and-life/813192/352 "2018-05-07T18:07:10Z")
Well, it’s good to see you’re all getting along so well in my absence. :rolleyes: Oh, and by the way, thanks for answering my post, **Biffster**. Now, let’s have a look… > [@Biffster](#): > > I don’t believe all human knowledge becomes available to everyone all of the time; I think some of it does, and it may come to us in a dream or a flash of intuition. Being aware of everybody’s underwear sizes would probably not be all that helpful in most situations, though are probably some situations where that kind of knowledge could be a lifesaver. I can’t think of any though. As you probably might guess, I don’t think that there’s evidence that humans occasionally tap into a big database in the sky. I think that such a belief actually sells humans short: humans have ideas in dreams and flashes of intuition because they have the ability to come up with ideas in their own heads, and sometimes their subconscious minds put together things and feed those ideas to the conscious minds via the aforementioned methods. Honestly that’s a consistent theme - two thirds of theology is the practice of taking things that humans do, or that physics and nature do, and stealing the credit for it and claiming a god did it instead. The other third of theology is making pie-in-the-sky promises that never have to be delivered on. > [@Biffster](#): > > I think the influence we have on others in our lives certainly gets passed on, but not genetically. Call it the wisdom of the ages. With the internet today, I suspect we have a far too large and cluttered pool of knowledge to pass on, where the important and not so important ideas kind of get jumbled altogether. Still, our own knowledge gets passed on to whomever we decided to share it with while we are alive. I dunno about this genetic stuff; I’d say knowledge is passed on verbally and in writing. And as for it being a large and cluttered pool, it does clearly have some crap floating in it. Like religion - I think we can agree that the one you left behind is clearly garbage that should have been flushed generations ago. Some people here think your current theory has a certain scent of ‘floater’ to it too. It’s not like there ain’t precedent. > [@Biffster](#): > > All I can honestly say is I don’t know. I’d like to think that we have souls that carry on after our physical death. That could also be fifty years of Catholicism that I’m afraid to completely let go of. I like the idea os a soul, so I’m going to with it for now, even if it’s not scientific. It’s actually pretty _anti_-scientific, for reasons I’ll get into shortly. As for how appealing the idea is, I’ve always found it kind of…not. Mostly because nobody’s ever made living forever sound appealing. What would souls _do_? Spend all their time desperately trying to shove their knowledge into other people as dreams of flashes of intuition, just to feel that their ongoing existence is validated? Yikes. > [@Biffster](#): > > Good question. I don’t think a soul, if it exists, resides anywhere in the body. Neither does the mind, to my way of thinking. I have no proof of this, but rather just a hunch that our souls inhabit our bodies for as long as we’re alive and breathing on this planet. Have you ever wondered what exactly you see when you dream? All you’re actually seeing are the insides of your eyelids, yet in a dream, you can see all kinds of places and people and go on all kinds of adventures. Are these things real? They sure can seem real at the time. I believe there are dimensions beyond what is physical and obvious to our senses that are just as real as anything else we might experience in this life and that can affect us in profound ways. When people talk about the mind not being based in the physical body, I find myself wondering how they’ve gotten so far in life without having ever heard of alcohol. Alcohol is a chemical that humanity came up with recently that causes temporary alterations to the mind. It effects emotion, perception, memory, and personality - pretty much the whole package. And it’s a freaking chemical. It’s physical. It exists in the physical realm and does it’s business to the physical brain. And it’s far from the only chemical that effects the mind this way - besides all the illegal ones, there are medicines specifically designed to alter the way the mind works, to help people with mental illnesses. If the mind/soul existed floating off somewhere outside of physical reality, then such chemicals working would be like trying to grab stars out of the firmament with a butterfly net. Forget being able to grab the mind and manipulate it, it can’t even reach into the same _plane of reality_ as where the mind is. TL;DR: If the mind didn’t exist in the physical plane of reality, I posit that bars wouldn’t do _near_ as good of business. > [@Biffster](#): > > Again, a good question. I don’t know. I can only conjecture, just like you. I think that the consciousness that is inside of me or you or anyone is God. Not the God of the Old or New Testament so much, but rather the life force that created us and created everything in the universe as well. Not the typical notion of God, I know, but it makes sense to me. The life force within me is the same life force within you. Our separateness is the illusion. Please clarify: when you say that “the life force within me is the same life force within you”, do you mean: 1. They’re made of the same stuff. Sort of how the ice cream in one carton is the same as the ice cream in the carton next to it, despite the fact that the globs of ice cream are physically distinct and actually have no effect on one another. 2. They’re actually literally the same “spirit”, who is pretending to be two (billion) separate people, like a child playing with barbie and ken dolls and doing the voices for both of them before bonking them against one another in a mockery of physical interaction? That what I view as my identity and personality is all a sham, a fake, an act that the shared spirit is putting on as part of some game, and when the game ends I’ll cease to exist the same way Scrooge ceases to exist when the actor drops character to take his bows? > [@Biffster](#): > > That’s about all I can come up for one evening. Have a good night. I had a good weekend, actually! Oh, and about this nonsense with Life and God being abstract and such - small-l-life (as disctinct from the ice cream Life) is an activity, not an entity. It’s a verb, not a noun. So taking a picture of it is like taking a picture of skiing - you can take a picture of people engaging in the act of skiing, but you can’t take a picture of ‘skiing’ alone, without people. Similarly, you can of course take a picture of people who are engaging in the act of living, but not ‘living’ without all photographing the people or animals or plants doing it. I distinguish ‘life’ from 'Life" because it seems you do too. You seem to think that “Life” is a noun, not a verb - something that presumable applies to your definition of “God”, too. Is that right? ---
**Author:** ![Biffster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/biffster/32/339_2.png) [@Biffster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biffster)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2018, 7:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-and-life/813192/353 "2018-05-07T19:20:38Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Is this your way of avoiding responding to the arguments presented? Could you possibly tell us what is wrong with the opposing arguments, instead of just saying that none of it changes your mind? If you don’t say _why_ you are not swayed by any of the arguments, then one may assume that you intend to dismiss out of hand any opinions/theories/facts that differ from your own. The fact that you are “polite” when you do so doesn’t excuse this. Well, unless we agree on basic terms, it’s going to be difficult for me to persuade you of anything or even to refute your arguments. I am stating that the words God and Life might need to be redefined. If you say no, those words are fine the way they are, how exactly do we debate the issue? If I redefine those terms, then I’ll be making a straw man argument. So I’m really not sure where to go from here. ---
**Author:** ![Biffster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/biffster/32/339_2.png) [@Biffster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biffster)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2018, 7:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-and-life/813192/354 "2018-05-07T19:22:25Z")
> [@DavidwithanR](#): > > Do you believe (as you seem to believe) that saying soothing pretty words while completely disregarding what others say, is somehow respectful? No. I believe that not insulting other posters or telling them that their views are idiotic is somehow respectful. You seem to lapse into this bad habit frequently. ---
**Author:** ![begbert2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/begbert2/32/3357_2.png) [@begbert2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/begbert2)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2018, 7:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-and-life/813192/355 "2018-05-07T19:27:45Z")
> [@Biffster](#): > > Have you ever wondered what exactly you see when you dream? All you’re actually seeing are the insides of your eyelids, yet in a dream, you can see all kinds of places and people and go on all kinds of adventures. Are these things real? They sure can seem real at the time. I believe there are dimensions beyond what is physical and obvious to our senses that are just as real as anything else we might experience in this life and that can affect us in profound ways. I forgot to reply to this bit. I am one of those rare and unique people that has a rare and unique ability, that I call “an imagination”. It allows me to create images and worlds in my head. I’m actually a writer (buy my books! Wait, that’s shilling, don’t shoot me mods!) and I can actually create entire whole people in my heads and put them in settings and picture entire scenarios playing out! Truly I am a rare and special being. I can do that while I’m awake. Why should I be surprised if my mind still has the ability to do so while I sleep? Also, regarding the idea that dreams are examples of us walking through other dimensions, I remember a dream I had as a kid where I was Wilykat, of the Thundercats. (Cat’s Lair was invaded by a group of thugs who had nothing to do with the Thundercats franchise. They locked us in a room and repeatedly stopped us from getting out until I woke up. It was an odd dream.) If dreams are other dimensions, then whichever god is creating the other dimensions is in flagrant violation of copyright. She should be ashamed of herself. And don’t go telling me that the creators of the Thundercats were in fact getting their inspiration by dreaming about some other dimension. As a writer, that’s _offensive_. I mean, it literally makes me angry because it tells me that my creations aren’t my own and I have accomplished and done nothing. Sure that’s a common theme from religions, as they steal credit from people to give their gods things to do, but it’s still infuriating. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2018, 7:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-and-life/813192/356 "2018-05-07T19:39:20Z")
> [@begbert2](#): > > And don’t go telling me that the creators of the Thundercats were in fact getting their inspiration by dreaming about some other dimension. As a writer, that’s _offensive_. I mean, it literally makes me angry because it tells me that my creations aren’t my own and I have accomplished and done nothing. Sure that’s a common theme from religions, as they steal credit from people to give their gods things to do, but it’s still infuriating. I thought ideas for writers came from Schenectady? > [@Harlan Ellison](#): > > People ask me where I get my ideas. I always tell them, “Schenectady.” They look at me with confusion and I say, “Yeah, there’s this ‘idea service’ in Schenectady and every week like clockwork they send me a fresh six-pack of ideas for 25 bucks. ---
**Author:** ![begbert2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/begbert2/32/3357_2.png) [@begbert2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/begbert2)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2018, 7:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-and-life/813192/357 "2018-05-07T19:41:36Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > I thought ideas for writers came from Schenectady? Dammit, I didn’t know about that service! Probably why the ideas behind my books are so much poorer than the ones I read in books by actual established authors. ☹ ---
**Author:** ![Biffster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/biffster/32/339_2.png) [@Biffster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biffster)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2018, 7:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-and-life/813192/358 "2018-05-07T19:57:15Z")
> [@begbert2](#): > > I forgot to reply to this bit. > > I am one of those rare and unique people that has a rare and unique ability, that I call “an imagination”. It allows me to create images and worlds in my head. I’m actually a writer (buy my books! Wait, that’s shilling, don’t shoot me mods!) and I can actually create entire whole people in my heads and put them in settings and picture entire scenarios playing out! Truly I am a rare and special being. > > I can do that while I’m awake. Why should I be surprised if my mind still has the ability to do so while I sleep? > > Also, regarding the idea that dreams are examples of us walking through other dimensions, I remember a dream I had as a kid where I was Wilykat, of the Thundercats. (Cat’s Lair was invaded by a group of thugs who had nothing to do with the Thundercats franchise. They locked us in a room and repeatedly stopped us from getting out until I woke up. It was an odd dream.) > > If dreams are other dimensions, then whichever god is creating the other dimensions is in flagrant violation of copyright. She should be ashamed of herself. > > And don’t go telling me that the creators of the Thundercats were in fact getting their inspiration by dreaming about some other dimension. As a writer, that’s _offensive_. I mean, it literally makes me angry because it tells me that my creations aren’t my own and I have accomplished and done nothing. Sure that’s a common theme from religions, as they steal credit from people to give their gods things to do, but it’s still infuriating. Funny. The part I was keying into us the fact that we can see anything at all, even when we close your eyes and imagine something. I’m not saying it has anything to do with God or other dimensions. I just think it’s interesting how we see and hear things that aren’t there. Kind of like hallucinations or hypnosis. ---
**Author:** ![Biffster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/biffster/32/339_2.png) [@Biffster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biffster)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2018, 7:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-and-life/813192/359 "2018-05-07T19:58:16Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > I thought ideas for writers came from Schenectady? I think they referenced this place on Bugs Bunny. ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2018, 8:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-and-life/813192/360 "2018-05-07T20:11:42Z")
> [@Biffster](#): > > Funny. The part I was keying into us the fact that we can see anything at all, even when we close your eyes and imagine something. I’m not saying it has anything to do with God or other dimensions. I just think it’s interesting how we see and hear things that aren’t there. Kind of like hallucinations or hypnosis. Have you read much in the way of books about the human brain, written my actual scientists, neurologists and reputable researchers? I recommend Robert Wright’s, “Moral Animal”, and Stephen Pinker’s, “How the Mind Works”, to start. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-and-life/813192.md?page=17) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-and-life/813192.md?page=19)