# God and Life **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [April 26, 2018, 10:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-and-life/813192 "2018-04-26T22:27:09Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 22
**Author:** ![Biffster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/biffster/32/339_2.png) [@Biffster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biffster)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2018, 2:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-and-life/813192/421 "2018-05-09T02:58:49Z")
> [@DavidwithanR](#): > > You posted on purpose in “Debates”. Debates are for evaluating truth and falsehood, and for determining who’s right (if anyone) and who’s wrong. > > Your material has been proven wrong multiple times in multiple ways, so you’ve decided you don’t like debates. Hmmmm. > > Debates are precisely about not tolerating falsehood. That’s what has happened, pure and simple. Perhaps. What do you think would have been a better category, DavidwithanR? ---
**Author:** ![Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/budget_player_cadet/32/205_2.png) [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Budget_Player_Cadet)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2018, 4:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-and-life/813192/422 "2018-05-09T04:06:19Z")
> [@Biffster](#): > > You’ve never heard “God is Love” before? Yeah, I’ve heard it - it doesn’t make any fucking sense either. > [@Biffster](#): > > God — (capitalized) : the supreme or ultimate reality; a spirit or being that has great power, strength, knowledge, etc., and that can affect nature and the lives of people; a spirit or being that has great power, strength, knowledge, etc., and that can affect nature and the lives of people : one of various spirits or beings worshipped in some religions. Wait, _what?!_ This is such a massive leap from what you’ve been describing all thread that I am now completely lost. ---
**Author:** ![DavidwithanR](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/3bc359/32.png) [@DavidwithanR](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DavidwithanR)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2018, 4:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-and-life/813192/423 "2018-05-09T04:14:50Z")
> [@Biffster](#): > > Perhaps. What do you think would have been a better category, DavidwithanR? It depends on what you intend. My perception (maybe wrong) is that you wanted an appreciative audience rather than a discussion group. I wonder whether a topic like this, where you seem to be more interested in presenting than discussing, would be better on a personal blog with comments turned off. I don’t think any section of this board is especially 100% welcoming to false speculation about religion. (i.e. that thoughtful religious people would reject, let alone skeptical people.) ---
**Author:** ![Biffster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/biffster/32/339_2.png) [@Biffster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biffster)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2018, 4:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-and-life/813192/424 "2018-05-09T04:50:01Z")
> [@DavidwithanR](#): > > The trouble is, you’re turning out to be a person who doesn’t ponder. Anything, ever. You obviously came here to make some sort of one-sided presentation rather than to discuss anything, expecting to be - I don’t know… lauded? Dude, it’s not happening. > > If you pondered some of the things that people are writing to you, you’d notice that a few of your current thoughts are out of touch with reality, and you’d say to yourself “Hmmm, it’s very clear that this ‘God Equals Life’ idea is complete horseshit - Walsch turns out to be dead wrong on this one - I wonder what next?” pondered; pondering play \ˈpän-d(ə-)riŋ transitive verb 1 : to weigh in the mind : appraise pondered their chances of success 2 : to think about : reflect on pondered the events of the day intransitive verb : to think or consider especially quietly, soberly, and deeply I would beg to differ. I think about all kinds of things, some more deeply than others, which fits the second definition just fine. Ponder that. ---
**Author:** ![Biffster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/biffster/32/339_2.png) [@Biffster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biffster)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2018, 4:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-and-life/813192/425 "2018-05-09T04:51:11Z")
> [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](#): > > Yeah, I’ve heard it - it doesn’t make any fucking sense either. > > Wait, _what?!_ This is such a massive leap from what you’ve been describing all thread that I am now completely lost. How so? ---
**Author:** ![DavidwithanR](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/3bc359/32.png) [@DavidwithanR](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DavidwithanR)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2018, 5:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-and-life/813192/426 "2018-05-09T05:09:01Z")
> [@Biffster](#): > > pondered; pondering play \ˈpän-d(ə-)riŋ > transitive verb > 1 : to weigh in the mind : appraise pondered their chances of success > 2 : to think about : reflect on pondered the events of the day > intransitive verb > : to think or consider especially quietly, soberly, and deeply > > I would beg to differ. I think about all kinds of things, some more deeply than others, which fits the second definition just fine. Ponder that. Pretending to think, isn’t the same as thinking. When you have an idea that’s mistaken, and some new ideas that are not mistaken, and you think about all of those together, the ideas gradually (or suddenly) rearrange themselves, and the mistaken idea soon gets pushed out of the way. ---
**Author:** ![Biffster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/biffster/32/339_2.png) [@Biffster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biffster)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2018, 5:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-and-life/813192/427 "2018-05-09T05:20:04Z")
> [@Telemark](#): > > OK, how so? I regard life in that it’s something that exists, can be studied, can have an impact on myself and the people around me. I have no need for a “God” that fulfills that same role; the natural world does all that just fine. It sounds almost like a Deist definition of God, but one that ultimately falls short in the same way the Deism does. It assumes there must be a God because of poor logic, then fills that perceived gap with something we can’t detect or interact with. > > It really boils down to the question of “How do you regard Life?” Because the way I regard Life is purely scientific and rational. If I regard God the same way, I’ve reduced God to just empty concepts. The argument is unconvincing to me (an atheist) because I don’t see and spiritual meaning in Life. The argument is probably unconvincing to at Theist because they see spiritual meaning in God. Either way, I don’t see how this idea makes anyone better off. You say you don’t see any spiritual meaning in Life. I see profound spiritual meaning in Life in so many ways. Our very existence is to me a miracle. The way the plants and leaves know when to emerge in the springtime; the way fetuses evolve from nothing to something, and the way we evolve back into nothingness again at the end of Life; the way water freezes in such a way that ice floats on water, while other substances get denser when they become solid. The way Life not only exists but thrives on this planet, just one of trillions of potential homes for Life in the universe but so far the only planet that we know is capable of sustaining it. Certainly God is not required for any of this miracle of Life to exist, but what harm is it to you for those of us who see something spiritual about the whole experience? In my mind, if there is a God, then Life is the best expression of the power of that Deity. And if God doesn’t exist, then Life is still the most incredible thing that exists. Either way, Life is good for me. ---
**Author:** ![Biffster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/biffster/32/339_2.png) [@Biffster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biffster)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2018, 5:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-and-life/813192/428 "2018-05-09T05:23:23Z")
> [@DavidwithanR](#): > > Pretending to think, isn’t the same as thinking. When you have an idea that’s mistaken, and some new ideas that are not mistaken, and you think about all of those together, the ideas gradually (or suddenly) rearrange themselves, and the mistaken idea soon gets pushed out of the way. I think it’s pretty presumptuous of you to suggest that I am only pretending to think. It’s a pretty rude suggestion actually. I’ve tried being polite to you, but I’m running out of patience. If you don’t like what I’ve written, fine. But you don’t have to be insulting to me as a fellow forum user. ---
**Author:** ![Biffster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/biffster/32/339_2.png) [@Biffster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biffster)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2018, 5:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-and-life/813192/429 "2018-05-09T05:50:52Z")
There are thousands of inspirational quotes about life; here’s one I like. [https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180509/055b8db6a6f14a9011d9082f8aa32148.jpg](https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180509/055b8db6a6f14a9011d9082f8aa32148.jpg) ---
**Author:** ![begbert2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/begbert2/32/3357_2.png) [@begbert2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/begbert2)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2018, 4:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-and-life/813192/430 "2018-05-09T16:54:12Z")
I wonder if it would be helpful for various people to remember that _it’s okay to witness in Great Debates_. Nobody has to agree with Biffster, and nobody has to give him one iota of slack when his definitions shift or he speaks unclearly or admits to having emotions, but the dude most definitely has a right to set up a soapbox here and ramble on about whatever he wants, even if it _is_ complete nonsense. (Not to say that it is, **Biffster** , but even if it is by Life I’ll defend your right to say it.) > [@Biffster](#): > > Now I’m not sure any of these definitions quite fits the connotations I have for these words, but if I had to pick, I’d go with the following: > > God — (capitalized) : the supreme or ultimate reality; a spirit or being that has great power, strength, knowledge, etc., and that can affect nature and the lives of people; a spirit or being that has great power, strength, knowledge, etc., and that can affect nature and the lives of people : one of various spirits or beings worshipped in some religions. > > Life — a principle or force that is considered to underlie the distinctive quality of animate beings; spiritual existence transcending physical death; a specific phase of earthly existence adult life; an animating and shaping force or principle; spirit; the experience of being alive; all the experiences that make up the existence of a person; energy and spirit. > > Love — strong and warm affection; warm attachment, enthusiasm, or devotion; unselfish loyal and benevolent concern for the good of another; a person’s adoration of God; to hold dear : cherish; to feel affection or experience desire. > > You may disagree with these cherry-picked definitions; if so, fine. Just add your own definition or understanding that you feel better describes the word. I will say that obviously these three words describe three different things (which I still see as abstract words, sometimes nouns, sometimes verbs, depending on how they are used), but that’s kind of the point of the exercise: to examine what the commonalities are for these three terms and where they overlap. Personally, I think these words are far more evocative than a dictionary definition allows them, based on one’s experience, but if someone says I am not “internally consistent” with me terms, why then I hope to rectify that. Have at 'er. I am super-okay with you cherry-picking your definitions, because it means you’re _picking your definitions_. Which is exactly what people, including me, have been demanding of you this entire thread. And now that you’ve picked your definitions…I’d say that it’s damned clear that God isn’t love. God is a “spirit or being”, and love is an emotion experienced by spirits or beings. Definitely not the same thing. So let’s just put that aside. I’m not super happy with your definition of “Life”, because it’s a bit self-contradictory - it’s conflating two obviously different things. Most of the definition is talking about a ‘force’ - something that’s either a physicalish substance (the legos one constructs a soul from), or an energy (the battery power one powers a soul with). (That could bear clarification, by the way - which is it? A substance or an energy?) But then at the end of the definition you say “all the experiences that make up the existence of a person”. That’s not a substance or energy at all - that’s _data_. Those are memories. Those are the words that are written on paper, not the paper itself as the rest of the definition implies. (Hopefully my meaning is coming through all the conflicting analogies.) Short version - was leaving in that bit about the experiences an error? That sounds like small-l-life, which would be a distinct thing from your newly-conceptualized large-l-life, which seems to be positioned as part of metaphysical physics. Probably should stop there for the moment - get the clarifications out of the way before we start talking about the implications of equating Life with a sentient dude. ---
**Author:** ![Biffster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/biffster/32/339_2.png) [@Biffster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biffster)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2018, 5:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-and-life/813192/431 "2018-05-09T17:02:26Z")
Here’s another: [https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180509/76a919aab37b6fca738cc8d0989ab578.jpg](https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180509/76a919aab37b6fca738cc8d0989ab578.jpg) The point is that Life, while meaning one thing to a biologist, can mean something very different to a philosopher or just an average person. No one holds a monopoly on the meaning of the word, because it has so many possible connotations. I think to honestly give the concept posed in the OP a fair chance one must be willing to look beyond dictionary definitions and consider the connotations of words like Life or God (or Love). You need to think poetically to see the synchronicity among words that might appear disparate on the surface. If you can’t do that (or if you are unwilling to do that), then yes, obviously the theory that God=Life sounds silly on its face. But I think a number of you have not given it fair consideration. It helps probably if one is a deist to begin with, because deists tend to see a connectedness between all of God’s creations anyway. But that doesn’t mean an atheist can’t appreciate the beauty and wonder of Life. There is much to marvel at in the natural world. A creator is not necessary to see the marvellous complexity of the world. Not for me, anyway. But something brought this word into being. I don’t what it was, but I’m thankful all the same. Really, I would just like to see some of the negativity that has come up in this thread to stop. People can disagree without being disagreeable. There are some great minds here attempting to share some great insights. ---
**Author:** ![begbert2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/begbert2/32/3357_2.png) [@begbert2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/begbert2)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2018, 5:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-and-life/813192/432 "2018-05-09T17:18:04Z")
> [@Biffster](#): > > I don’t what it was, but I’m thankful all the same. It was physics! It’s like how if you have a bunch of big marbles buried in a box of little marbles, you can sort all the big marbles to the top just by shaking the box. Simple physics gives unexpectedly intelligent-seeming results! > [@Biffster](#): > > Really, I would just like to see some of the negativity that has come up in this thread to stop. People can disagree without being disagreeable. There are some great minds here attempting to share some great insights. I hope you don’t think _I’m_ one of those great minds. That sounds like an insult to great minds! 😃 ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2018, 5:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-and-life/813192/433 "2018-05-09T17:24:39Z")
> [@Biffster](#): > > Really, I would just like to see some of the negativity that has come up in this thread to stop. People can disagree without being disagreeable. There are some great minds here attempting to share some great insights. There is a fundamental disagreement about what you present as “great insight”. I appreciate that you would like many of us who disagree with you to recognize these ideas as meaningful. Understand that it’s not that we don’t get what you’re saying, we do; we simply don’t agree with you. To that extent, you have to accept the fact that for many of us, your observations seem trite. And while we might not have better explanations for the meaning of it all, we prefer admitting to not knowing than resorting to wishful thinking and poetic flights of fancy. ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2018, 5:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-and-life/813192/434 "2018-05-09T17:26:08Z")
> [@begbert2](#): > > I hope you don’t think _I’m_ one of those great minds. That sounds like an insult to great minds! 😃 No-one thinks that. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Biffster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/biffster/32/339_2.png) [@Biffster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biffster)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2018, 5:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-and-life/813192/435 "2018-05-09T17:27:50Z")
Some might suggest this cookie suits me and my deepity ideas. [https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180509/5cbc13ccc741c94995a6df8bc664c642.jpg](https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180509/5cbc13ccc741c94995a6df8bc664c642.jpg) ---
**Author:** ![Biffster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/biffster/32/339_2.png) [@Biffster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biffster)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2018, 5:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-and-life/813192/436 "2018-05-09T17:30:03Z")
> [@QuickSilver](#): > > There is a fundamental disagreement about what you present as “great insight”. I appreciate that you would like many of us who disagree with you to recognize these ideas as meaningful. Understand that it’s not that we don’t get what you’re saying, we do; we simply don’t agree with you. To that extent, you have to accept the fact that for many of us, your observations seem trite. And while we might not have better explanations for the meaning of it all, we prefer admitting to not knowing than resorting to wishful thinking and poetic flights of fancy. Fair enough. I appreciate your honesty. And your diplomacy. ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2018, 5:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-and-life/813192/437 "2018-05-09T17:36:56Z")
> [@Biffster](#): > > Some might suggest this cookie suits me and my deepity ideas. > > [https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180509/5cbc13ccc741c94995a6df8bc664c642.jpg](https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180509/5cbc13ccc741c94995a6df8bc664c642.jpg) Being able to laugh at yourself is the first step to being avoided at parties and public outings. ---
**Author:** ![begbert2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/begbert2/32/3357_2.png) [@begbert2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/begbert2)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2018, 5:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-and-life/813192/438 "2018-05-09T17:38:20Z")
> [@QuickSilver](#): > > Being able to laugh at yourself is the first step to being avoided at parties and public outings. Did you miss a word? Or are you talking specifically about the people who start laughing at themselves at random times with no clear reason while holding large knives? ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2018, 5:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-and-life/813192/439 "2018-05-09T17:48:32Z")
> [@begbert2](#): > > Did you miss a word? Or are you talking specifically about the people who start laughing at themselves at random times with no clear reason while holding large knives? It’s the “no clear reason” bit, obv. ---
**Author:** ![begbert2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/begbert2/32/3357_2.png) [@begbert2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/begbert2)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2018, 6:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-and-life/813192/440 "2018-05-09T18:02:36Z")
> [@QuickSilver](#): > > It’s the “no clear reason” bit, obv. Oh, okay, good. (Fingers knife.) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-and-life/813192.md?page=21) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-and-life/813192.md?page=23)