# God and Life **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [April 26, 2018, 10:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-and-life/813192 "2018-04-26T22:27:09Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2018, 3:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-and-life/813192/121 "2018-04-28T15:16:37Z")
Y’know what… I can’t do this anymore. I may not believe in god, but I do have a Life. ---
**Author:** ![Biffster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/biffster/32/339_2.png) [@Biffster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biffster)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2018, 3:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-and-life/813192/122 "2018-04-28T15:19:15Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > It’s life because, if you look at it in just the right way, it sorta looks like life? > > There is no way to debate stuff this shallow-You guys have fun. Best wishes on your travels. “Sorta looks like life”—no. Shows great activity which is one of the foundations of life, yes. There are many organisms that thrive at the bottom of the ocean where volcanic activity is present. Such could be the case with Io. Why not? ---
**Author:** ![Biffster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/biffster/32/339_2.png) [@Biffster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biffster)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2018, 3:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-and-life/813192/123 "2018-04-28T15:20:16Z")
> [@QuickSilver](#): > > Y’know what… I can’t do this anymore. I may not believe in god, but I do have a Life. I see what you did there. ---
**Author:** ![Biffster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/biffster/32/339_2.png) [@Biffster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biffster)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2018, 3:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-and-life/813192/124 "2018-04-28T15:22:30Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > Of course life doesn’t begin at conception. Life begins billions of years ago. And human life doesn’t begin at conception, either: It begins a million or so years ago, depending on precisely how you define “human”. I like your way of thinking. If we consider life as a species as opposed to life as an individual organism, we have a much broader view of life. ---
**Author:** ![Darren\_Garrison](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/darren_garrison/32/92_2.png) [@Darren\_Garrison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darren_Garrison)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2018, 3:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-and-life/813192/125 "2018-04-28T15:36:52Z")
> [@Biffster](#): > > Tell me: how do you define Life, Czarcasm? I like the definition “a chemical system capable of undergoing evolution via natural selection.” ---
**Author:** ![Biffster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/biffster/32/339_2.png) [@Biffster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biffster)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2018, 3:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-and-life/813192/126 "2018-04-28T15:50:51Z")
> [@Darren\_Garrison](#): > > I like the definition “a chemical system capable of undergoing evolution via natural selection.” I like that one. But of course, that would go beyond simply plant and animal life, wouldn’t it? ---
**Author:** ![Darren\_Garrison](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/darren_garrison/32/92_2.png) [@Darren\_Garrison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darren_Garrison)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2018, 4:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-and-life/813192/127 "2018-04-28T16:12:57Z")
> [@Biffster](#): > > I like that one. But of course, that would go beyond simply plant and animal life, wouldn’t it? The two kingdom model you are implying is decades out of date. But yes, it is meant to accomodate plants, animals, fungi, various groups once called protists, bacteria, archeans, viruses, possibly viriods, virusoids, and satellite viruses, but probably not prions. It also would include any self-replicating evolving non-protein/nucleic acid chemical systems that might possibly be discovered elsewhere, such as in one of the larger moons of one of a gas giants. What it does not include is fire, volcanos, clouds, lightning bolts, snowflakes, or sand dunes. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2018, 4:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-and-life/813192/128 "2018-04-28T16:19:05Z")
> [@Biffster](#): > > I like the definition of “deepity,” although I don’t think that’s what I’m promoting. I think, based on the numerous threads on the same subject, that the concept of God is problematic for a great number of people. So easy to disbelieve in. Walsch’s description got me thinking however, over ten years ago, and the shoe still fits so I’m wearing it. I have no problem with redefining God, since I don’t think He or She was all that well-defined to begin with. People seem to be having more trouble with your definition of God than they are with the more traditional definitions. ---
**Author:** ![Biffster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/biffster/32/339_2.png) [@Biffster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biffster)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2018, 4:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-and-life/813192/129 "2018-04-28T16:34:59Z")
> [@Darren\_Garrison](#): > > The two kingdom model you are implying is decades out of date. But yes, it is meant to accomodate plants, animals, fungi, various groups once called protists, bacteria, archeans, viruses, possibly viriods, virusoids, and satellite viruses, but probably not prions. It also would include any self-replicating evolving non-protein/nucleic acid chemical systems that might possibly be discovered elsewhere, such as in one of the larger moons of one of a gas giants. > > What it does not include is fire, volcanos, clouds, lightning bolts, snowflakes, or sand dunes. Interesting. At least it is a pretty wide latitude definition, certainly beyond plants and animals anyway. By this definition, there could well be “life” elsewhere in the solar system, let alone the universe. ---
**Author:** ![Biffster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/biffster/32/339_2.png) [@Biffster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biffster)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2018, 4:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-and-life/813192/130 "2018-04-28T16:36:00Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > People seem to be having more trouble with your definition of God than they are with the more traditional definitions. Ain’t that the truth! Old habits die hard it seems. ---
**Author:** ![Telemark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/telemark/32/372_2.png) [@Telemark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telemark)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2018, 5:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-and-life/813192/131 "2018-04-28T17:36:06Z")
> [@Biffster](#): > > By this definition, there could well be “life” elsewhere in the solar system, let alone the universe. By any definition we’ve ever used this is true. There’s nothing special about this definition. All **DG** did was apply that to the existing biological categories. ---
**Author:** ![Biffster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/biffster/32/339_2.png) [@Biffster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biffster)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2018, 5:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-and-life/813192/132 "2018-04-28T17:50:27Z")
> [@Telemark](#): > > By any definition we’ve ever used this is true. There’s nothing special about this definition. All **DG** did was apply that to the existing biological categories. How would one determine whether or not life exists using this definition? Does it rely on longitudinal study in order to see the evolutionary aspect? ---
**Author:** ![Telemark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/telemark/32/372_2.png) [@Telemark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telemark)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2018, 6:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-and-life/813192/133 "2018-04-28T18:05:32Z")
> [@Biffster](#): > > How would one determine whether or not life exists using this definition? Does it rely on longitudinal study in order to see the evolutionary aspect? You need to identify genes or some other analog for passing traits to other generations. ---
**Author:** ![Biffster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/biffster/32/339_2.png) [@Biffster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biffster)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2018, 6:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-and-life/813192/134 "2018-04-28T18:51:24Z")
> [@Telemark](#): > > You need to identify genes or some other analog for passing traits to other generations. Viruses are a fun one, since they only seem to be alive when they are within a host organism. Or has that all changed since decades ago when I was learning rudimentary biology? ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2018, 6:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-and-life/813192/135 "2018-04-28T18:58:49Z")
> [@eschereal](#): > > There is no “life”. We are all just avatars in a simulation of some sort. Hell, you might not even be real, AFAICT. That’s the hope. Otherwise, we’re MOBs. ---
**Author:** ![Darren\_Garrison](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/darren_garrison/32/92_2.png) [@Darren\_Garrison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darren_Garrison)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2018, 8:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-and-life/813192/136 "2018-04-28T20:43:07Z")
> [@Telemark](#): > > By any definition we’ve ever used this is true. There’s nothing special about this definition. All **DG** did was apply that to the existing biological categories. [Not claiming to be the origin of the definition](http://www.google.com/search?q=self-sustaining+chemical+system+capable+of+darwinian+evolution&oq=self-sustaining+chemical+system+capable+of+darwinian+evolution&gs_l=mobile-heirloom-serp.12...0.0.1.2234.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0..0.0....0...1c..34.mobile-heirloom-serp..11.16.4842.tUiSv2-oCZQ). ---
**Author:** ![Darren\_Garrison](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/darren_garrison/32/92_2.png) [@Darren\_Garrison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darren_Garrison)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2018, 8:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-and-life/813192/137 "2018-04-28T20:53:55Z")
> [@Biffster](#): > > Viruses are a fun one, since they only seem to be alive when they are within a host organism. Or has that all changed since decades ago when I was learning rudimentary biology? There is no consensus on wherther or not to concider viruses to be alive (which itself makes mockery of your definition of life) but I’m willing to entertain the position that viruses are highly streamlined endoparasites (taking them a few steps beyond mitochondria and chloroplasts.) (Plus–wow, your science education really is from the plant/animal two kingdom model. Your information is [_ **profoundly** _ out of date](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kingdom_(biology)#Modern_view).) ---
**Author:** ![Biffster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/biffster/32/339_2.png) [@Biffster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biffster)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2018, 9:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-and-life/813192/138 "2018-04-28T21:08:50Z")
> [@Darren\_Garrison](#): > > [Not claiming to be the origin of the definition](http://www.google.com/search?q=self-sustaining+chemical+system+capable+of+darwinian+evolution&oq=self-sustaining+chemical+system+capable+of+darwinian+evolution&gs_l=mobile-heirloom-serp.12...0.0.1.2234.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0..0.0....0...1c..34.mobile-heirloom-serp..11.16.4842.tUiSv2-oCZQ). That’s a good definition, but is there anything simpler that would work for the layman? I don’t think one should have to know that much about science in order to have a discussion over the similarities between God and Life. In that most descriptions of God have to be metaphors, what is there about life that we might consider God-like or a creative force in the universe? For me, the fact that life exists at all is a pretty big miracle. That we have been unable to find signs of life in any of the other trillions of places in the universe so far suggests that life is a pretty rare thing. This planet, with its 23 degree inclination that creates seasons and its perfect temperature, plus or minus 30 degrees from zero Celsius for the most part, so water can exist in all three states, is so perfect for supporting life that we usually take it for granted. Now if God (or some life force) created all we see, then I imagine we would have to include everything in the universe, beyond just life, because that is all part of our universe. At the point, the term “Life” actually falls short, though it does describe a lot. I’m just spitballing here, but one thing of which I am convinced is that the traditional definitions of God just don’t work for me any more. I’m more atheistic in my views today, but I still believe in an all-powerful life force. Maybe I should have been a Jedi. ---
**Author:** ![Biffster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/biffster/32/339_2.png) [@Biffster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biffster)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2018, 9:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-and-life/813192/139 "2018-04-28T21:11:07Z")
> [@Darren\_Garrison](#): > > There is no consensus on wherther or not to concider viruses to be alive (which itself makes mockery of your definition of life) but I’m willing to entertain the position that viruses are highly streamlined endoparasites (taking them a few steps beyond mitochondria and chloroplasts.) > > (Plus–wow, your science education really is from the plant/animal two kingdom model. Your information is [_ **profoundly** _ out of date](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kingdom_(biology)#Modern_view).) “My” information is the first thing that appeared in a Google search for the word “life.” It’s a starting point, that’s all. If you have something better, let’s try that out. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2018, 9:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-and-life/813192/140 "2018-04-28T21:35:44Z")
> [@](#): > > Quoth **Biffster** : > > Best wishes on your travels. “Sorta looks like life”—no. Shows great activity which is one of the foundations of life, yes. Does God have foundations? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-and-life/813192.md?page=6) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-and-life/813192.md?page=8)