# God and Mind **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [August 19, 2013, 7:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-and-mind/666654 "2013-08-19T19:42:05Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![SC2Maar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e79b87/32.png) [@SC2Maar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SC2Maar)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2013, 7:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-and-mind/666654/1 "2013-08-19T19:42:05Z")
Please don’t get angry at me for this question. I have to ask because I am curious. We can’t hear mind. We can’t see it. We can’t taste it. We can’t feel it by touching. We can’t smell it. But we know `mind` exists. So, can God exist in the same way that mind exist? Mind is not a material. It is not a energy. But we know it exist. So why can’t god exist? ---
**Author:** ![Ferret\_Herder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e47774/32.png) [@Ferret\_Herder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ferret_Herder)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2013, 7:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-and-mind/666654/2 "2013-08-19T19:46:26Z")
> [@SC2Maar](#): > > But we know `mind` exists. :dubious: Define ‘mind.’ ---
**Author:** ![hotflungwok](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/edb3f5/32.png) [@hotflungwok](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hotflungwok)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2013, 7:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-and-mind/666654/3 "2013-08-19T19:52:08Z")
> [@Ferret\_Herder](#): > > :dubious: Define ‘mind.’ Define ‘god’ while you’re at it. ---
**Author:** ![Idle\_Thoughts](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/838e76/32.png) [@Idle\_Thoughts](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Idle_Thoughts)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2013, 8:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-and-mind/666654/4 "2013-08-19T20:02:15Z")
I’m preemptively moving this to GD, believing it will do much better in that fora. ---
**Author:** ![Inner\_Stickler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inner_stickler/32/318_2.png) [@Inner\_Stickler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inner_Stickler)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2013, 8:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-and-mind/666654/5 "2013-08-19T20:08:26Z")
> [@SC2Maar](#): > > Mind is not a material. It is not a energy. But we know it exist. So why can’t god exist? A good starting point would probably be that the difference between something with a mind and something without a mind is pretty obvious. God and lack of god are suspiciously similar and no one’s come up with metric of differentiation that meets objective standards acceptable by everyone. ---
**Author:** ![Great\_Antibob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47c2d/32.png) [@Great\_Antibob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Great_Antibob)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2013, 8:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-and-mind/666654/6 "2013-08-19T20:09:40Z")
Descartes did this better. I’m pretty sure **my** mind exists. Cogito ergo sum and all that. Even then, I could be a delusion. But the rest of you? Good luck convincing me with 100% probability any of your minds really exist. I like playing with solipsism, hairy palms and all. > [@SC2Maar](#): > > Mind is not a material. Good luck with this one. Some materialists may disagree with this proposition. ---
**Author:** ![Inner\_Stickler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inner_stickler/32/318_2.png) [@Inner\_Stickler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inner_Stickler)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2013, 8:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-and-mind/666654/7 "2013-08-19T20:12:38Z")
The biggest flaw I see in solipsism is the fact that ice cream has calories. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2013, 8:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-and-mind/666654/8 "2013-08-19T20:14:16Z")
> [@SC2Maar](#): > > Please don’t get angry at me for this question. I have to ask because I am curious. > > We can’t hear mind. We can’t see it. We can’t taste it. We can’t feel it by touching. We can’t smell it. > > But we know `mind` exists. > > So, can God exist in the same way that mind exist? > > Mind is not a material. It is not a energy. But we know it exist. So why can’t god exist? This is an over simplification, but think of the brain as a computer, and the mind as the program it is running. ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2013, 8:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-and-mind/666654/9 "2013-08-19T20:19:58Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > This is an over simplification, but think of the brain as a computer, and the mind as the program it is running. Are we being hardware platform agnostic in this analogy? Because those Mac people are a little more dogmatic than most, and the Linux folks are complete wack-jobs. ---
**Author:** ![Procrustus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/procrustus/32/2994_2.png) [@Procrustus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Procrustus)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2013, 8:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-and-mind/666654/10 "2013-08-19T20:23:04Z")
> [@SC2Maar](#): > > . So why can’t god exist? It’s not that a god _can’t_ exist. It’s that gods _don’t_ exist. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2013, 8:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-and-mind/666654/11 "2013-08-19T20:24:16Z")
> [@SC2Maar](#): > > We can’t hear mind. We can’t see it. We can’t taste it. We can’t feel it by touching. We can’t smell it. Because our senses are limited, and it’s locked up in the skull. With the right equipment we _can_ see the mind - we don’t _understand_ much of what we are seeing, but we _do_ see it. > [@SC2Maar](#): > > So, can God exist in the same way that mind exist? No. God is logically contradictory, physics breaking, completely lacking in evidence for it either being possible or existing, a myth created by primitives, _and_ obvious wish fulfillment. The mind isn’t. > [@SC2Maar](#): > > Mind is not a material. It is not a energy. Yes it is; a mind is a living, functioning brain. It’s a complex lump of matter and energy, not magic. ---
**Author:** ![simster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/simster/32/1047_2.png) [@simster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/simster)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2013, 8:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-and-mind/666654/12 "2013-08-19T20:24:41Z")
> [@QuickSilver](#): > > Are we being hardware platform agnostic in this analogy? > > Because those Mac people are a little more dogmatic than most, and the Linux folks are complete wack-jobs. and don’t get me started on teh OS2 folks still hanging around on the fringe. ---
**Author:** ![Trinopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/2bfe46/32.png) [@Trinopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trinopus)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2013, 10:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-and-mind/666654/13 "2013-08-19T22:05:12Z")
I can very definitely sense “mind” indirectly – by communicating with one. I’m communicating with several minds right now. When or if some of them respond (“Gaw, yer fool of it!”) I will have interacted with human minds. Sure, this doesn’t answer Cartesian doubt. Maybe all y’all are robots, or AIs, or demonic deceivers, or illusions cast by the shadow of mana. But that isn’t a particularly interesting way to look at it. Solipsism should always be footnoted…and then we move on, discussing reality as if it existed. ---
**Author:** ![monstro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@monstro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monstro)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2013, 11:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-and-mind/666654/14 "2013-08-19T23:33:23Z")
> [@SC2Maar](#): > > We can’t hear mind. We can’t see it. We can’t taste it. We can’t feel it by touching. We can’t smell it. But all of us are aware of our thoughts. I’m aware that I’m writing these words, thinking about what I’m going to say next. You are reading these words consciously, and thinking about what your response will be. Furthermore, we are aware of our mind when we lose consciousness. Our when we pull ourselves out of a dream. ---
**Author:** ![Trinopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/2bfe46/32.png) [@Trinopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trinopus)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2013, 1:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-and-mind/666654/15 "2013-08-20T01:41:55Z")
Or when we enter into altered states of consciousness, via drugs, alcohol, etc. Or when we enter into altered states of consciousness via strong emotional stimuli. Or when we develop mental illnesses. People who suffer from severe clinical depression have a very strong personal awareness of the mind. Meanwhile…none of this pertains to God. Dead silence, at least for most of us. And those who have heard the voice of God never report God having said doodly-squat of any worth or meaning! ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2013, 1:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-and-mind/666654/16 "2013-08-20T01:47:33Z")
> [@Trinopus](#): > > Meanwhile…none of this pertains to God. Dead silence, at least for most of us. And those who have heard the voice of God never report God having said doodly-squat of any worth or meaning! Or for that matter even the _same_ thing from person to person. And of course there’s all the people who have religious experiences that don’t involve God for the simple reason that he’s not included in their religion. Only a subset of religions believe in a God, singular. ---
**Author:** ![Great\_Antibob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47c2d/32.png) [@Great\_Antibob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Great_Antibob)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2013, 1:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-and-mind/666654/17 "2013-08-20T01:58:22Z")
While we’re on the philosophical kick… By way of George Berkeley: What is mind? No matter. What is matter? Never mind. ---
**Author:** ![sisu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/df705f/32.png) [@sisu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sisu)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2013, 2:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-and-mind/666654/18 "2013-08-20T02:34:57Z")
> [@Procrustus](#): > > It’s not that a god _can’t_ exist. It’s that gods _don’t_ exist. Well based on evidence so far I would agree, but hey we don’t know what we don’t know. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![rat\_avatar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rat_avatar/32/255_2.png) [@rat\_avatar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rat_avatar)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2013, 2:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-and-mind/666654/19 "2013-08-20T02:49:46Z")
We can see “thought” we just can’t explain it all yet. But we can, through science and the use of fmri, “see” what people are looking at. Cite: [http://www.smartplanet.com/blog/science-scope/video-mind-reading-tech-reconstructs-moving-images-others-see/10507](http://www.smartplanet.com/blog/science-scope/video-mind-reading-tech-reconstructs-moving-images-others-see/10507) And we are starting to learn what happens at the moment of death. [http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2013/08/130814-near-death-brain-life-after-death-bright-light/](http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2013/08/130814-near-death-brain-life-after-death-bright-light/) So please don’t conflate the “unknown” (e.g. how does the mind work) with the unknowable (e.g. is there a god). There is no evidence of a god or the super natural. But a lack of evidence does not prove non-existance. We have plenty of evidence on how the mind may work, we just don’t fully know how to fully explain it at this point in time. ---
**Author:** ![Werekoala](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/7993a0/32.png) [@Werekoala](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Werekoala)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2013, 2:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-and-mind/666654/20 "2013-08-20T02:56:51Z")
> [@Inner\_Stickler](#): > > The biggest flaw I see in solipsism is the fact that ice cream has calories. Damn you! Now I have to start interacting with people again… [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-and-mind/666654.md?page=2)