# God and Mind **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [August 19, 2013, 7:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-and-mind/666654 "2013-08-19T19:42:05Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 10
**Author:** ![Trinopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/2bfe46/32.png) [@Trinopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trinopus)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2013, 2:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-and-mind/666654/181 "2013-08-30T02:42:50Z")
I’d never before heard the name Alvin Plantinga. A quick Wikipedia check says he’s a leading Christian Philosopher. Are his views subject to a quick summary? As an atheist, I don’t suspect I’d find his reasoning amenable, but, well… Is he more sophisticated than, say, C.S. Lewis was? What does he bring to the table that we may not already have heard before? ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2013, 2:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-and-mind/666654/182 "2013-08-30T02:46:39Z")
Is it possible to post YouTube videos without being able to spell YouTube? ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2013, 11:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-and-mind/666654/183 "2013-08-30T11:03:18Z")
> [@lekatt](#): > > So many people have been told God will punish them and now they are afraid of God. It is necessary to tell the real story that God does not punish anyone for anything. That God is unconditional love. He loves all His children and holds them safe and secure. God(s) has been many things to many people through human history and the stories keep changing. I understand that you have a deep desire to make your version of god a deeply personal and loving entity that will ultimately welcome you with open arms regardless of what happens in your lifetime. And while I disagree with you fundamentally on the subject of the very existance of (any) god, I get that it’s a comforting idea to you and what gets you through your day. However, please stop insisting that you have any factual knowledge of things you wish to be true, or that we should be convinced of things not in evidence. ---
**Author:** ![monavis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e0b2c6/32.png) [@monavis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monavis)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2013, 12:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-and-mind/666654/184 "2013-08-30T12:06:02Z")
> [@lekatt](#): > > Yes there is but one doesn’t die during it. Learning about near death experiences is beneficial to all people, but especially to those who suffer from depression or are suicidal. When the person who is suicidal reads about NDEs their changes of trying to commit suicide drops by 60%. The very fact that you admit one doesn’t die during it makes all your posts on the subject Moot! I don’t read what you ask because I consider it untrue, because someone writes something doesn’t make it so. There is no proof, and I don’t see you giving any proof; because you believe it doesn’t come as proof. If it helps you life to be a better person then you have that right, but it doesn’t convince me! ---
**Author:** ![monavis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e0b2c6/32.png) [@monavis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monavis)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2013, 12:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-and-mind/666654/185 "2013-08-30T12:24:17Z")
John was a Human being and he thought of God as love, that is another human’s Idea. Paul describes love, and God doesn’t fit the picture! Also, the word God is a verb. but is also used as a noun. One can take their pick. According to some of the writings in the Bible God doesn’t act loving but cruel when he is said to kill a lot of innocent people to kill the very bad. Surely little babies or people with mental problems were not evil. ---
**Author:** ![lekatt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lekatt/32/7269_2.png) [@lekatt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lekatt)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2013, 2:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-and-mind/666654/186 "2013-08-30T14:40:56Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > And who told you all this? I learned this information while I was in the persence of God. All communication is through thought. One can ask questions and the answers are supplied immediately. ---
**Author:** ![lekatt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lekatt/32/7269_2.png) [@lekatt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lekatt)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2013, 3:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-and-mind/666654/187 "2013-08-30T15:00:41Z")
> [@QuickSilver](#): > > God(s) has been many things to many people through human history and the stories keep changing. I understand that you have a deep desire to make your version of god a deeply personal and loving entity that will ultimately welcome you with open arms regardless of what happens in your lifetime. And while I disagree with you fundamentally on the subject of the very existance of (any) god, I get that it’s a comforting idea to you and what gets you through your day. However, please stop insisting that you have any factual knowledge of things you wish to be true, or that we should be convinced of things not in evidence. I agree with you in part. For centuries man has been reading his God from a book or listening to some Holy man. But things began to change in the last century and into this one. People began to experience God when they suffered tramatic injuries that caused the heart to stop. I realize in the past this happened also but not near the numbers as today. These experiences revealed a God of love concerned with all people. The experience changed the perspectives of those who experienced it. Because they knew they were in the persence of God. I am one of those people, I am not a believer, I am a knower. I have had many such experiences over the years and hold no doubt to the authenticity. There are thousands like me, maybe millions who have been touched by His unconditional love. If it there possible to spread this love the planet would be without conflict and wars. We harm no one in the process. Truly God is love. ---
**Author:** ![lekatt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lekatt/32/7269_2.png) [@lekatt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lekatt)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2013, 3:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-and-mind/666654/188 "2013-08-30T15:08:50Z")
I don’t believe in all the writings of the Bible either. God never asks anyone to kill or harm anyone and He never does that Himself. People who have mental problems are not evil and God loves them in the same degree as any other person. He loves them and wants them to be well in all ways. God never hurt anyone. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2013, 3:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-and-mind/666654/189 "2013-08-30T15:11:22Z")
Do you hear any other voices in your head besides God’s? ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2013, 3:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-and-mind/666654/190 "2013-08-30T15:17:42Z")
Since I don’t happen to believe in the existence of your god, and you can’t come up with any evidence that it exists, it doesn’t count as a valid source. Do you have anything else that can verify your “facts”? ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2013, 4:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-and-mind/666654/191 "2013-08-30T16:09:43Z")
> [@lekatt](#): > > People began to experience God when they suffered tramatic injuries that caused the heart to stop. I realize in the past this happened also but not near the numbers as today. What accounts for this rise in frequency of these experiences? Why would god choose to change the way he interacts with people in “our time”? Why does god choose to interact with people through a traumatic event and not while they are reading the paper in the morning or walking their dog or sitting in the office all day? > [@lekatt](#): > > I am one of those people, I am not a believer, I am a knower. I have had many such experiences over the years and hold no doubt to the authenticity. There are thousands like me, maybe millions who have been touched by His unconditional love. If it there possible to spread this love the planet would be without conflict and wars. We harm no one in the process. Truly God is love. Why does god choose you and not me? (I’m a good listener.) Why does god rely on you (and those like you) to spread his word? If god wants peace and love throughout the planet, why does he make it so hard on you to spread the word? Why does god need to stop your heart before you can hear him? Why doesn’t god just come out and say what he wants? Why has god set you up to fail in your “harmless” quest to spread his message of love? (If I were you, I’d be pissed as hell at him for putting me in this position of having to convince people over the internet that he exists without providing me with one iota of hard evidence to back up my claims.) ---
**Author:** ![Telemark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/telemark/32/372_2.png) [@Telemark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telemark)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2013, 4:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-and-mind/666654/192 "2013-08-30T16:12:28Z")
> [@lekatt](#): > > I learned this information while I was in the persence of God. All communication is through thought. One can ask questions and the answers are supplied immediately. Well, isn’t that convenient. ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2013, 4:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-and-mind/666654/193 "2013-08-30T16:28:17Z")
> [@Telemark](#): > > Well, isn’t that convenient. [Church Lady](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RmwqnqL3Hbg). ---
**Author:** ![lekatt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lekatt/32/7269_2.png) [@lekatt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lekatt)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2013, 5:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-and-mind/666654/194 "2013-08-30T17:03:10Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Since I don’t happen to believe in the existence of your god, and you can’t come up with any evidence that it exists, it doesn’t count as a valid source. Do you have anything else that can verify your “facts”? Just me that’s all. The doctor gave me six months. Its over 25 years now and I love my live where before I hated it, ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2013, 5:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-and-mind/666654/195 "2013-08-30T17:06:41Z")
> [@lekatt](#): > > Just me that’s all. The doctor gave me six months. Its over 25 years now and I love my live where before I hated it, And what did you almost die of the night of your totally non-typical “OBE”? ---
**Author:** ![lekatt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lekatt/32/7269_2.png) [@lekatt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lekatt)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2013, 5:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-and-mind/666654/196 "2013-08-30T17:12:01Z")
> [@QuickSilver](#): > > What accounts for this rise in frequency of these experiences? Why would god choose to change the way he interacts with people in “our time”? Why does god choose to interact with people through a traumatic event and not while they are reading the paper in the morning or walking their dog or sitting in the office all day? > > Why does god choose you and not me? (I’m a good listener.) > > Why does god rely on you (and those like you) to spread his word? > > If god wants peace and love throughout the planet, why does he make it so hard on you to spread the word? > > Why does god need to stop your heart before you can hear him? > > Why doesn’t god just come out and say what he wants? > > Why has god set you up to fail in your “harmless” quest to spread his message of love? (If I were you, I’d be pissed as hell at him for putting me in this position of having to convince people over the internet that he exists without providing me with one iota of hard evidence to back up my claims.) I don’t have the answers to all your questions. But I haven’t failed at all. I have 12 web pages of letters from people I have helped thanking me. I don’t always win, but I take the insults and jabs in tow. I will help many more before I die. I consider myself a winner. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2013, 5:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-and-mind/666654/197 "2013-08-30T17:18:05Z")
> [@lekatt](#): > > I don’t have the answers to all your questions. But I haven’t failed at all. I have 12 web pages of letters from people I have helped thanking me. I don’t always win, but I take the insults and jabs in tow. I will help many more before I die. I consider myself a winner. Are those letters as anonymous as the anecdotes you dote on? ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2013, 5:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-and-mind/666654/198 "2013-08-30T17:18:52Z")
> [@lekatt](#): > > I don’t have the answers to all your questions. But I haven’t failed at all. I have 12 web pages of letters from people I have helped thanking me. I don’t always win, but I take the insults and jabs in tow. I will help many more before I die. I consider myself a winner. Is it possible that you are wrong in your convictions? ---
**Author:** ![Razncain](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/9d8465/32.png) [@Razncain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Razncain)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2013, 5:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-and-mind/666654/199 "2013-08-30T17:44:57Z")
> [@QuickSilver](#): > > Is it possible that you are wrong in your convictions? His dreams or lucid dreams, and how he chooses to interpret them are absolute and not subject to any critical scrutiny. ---
**Author:** ![Razncain](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/9d8465/32.png) [@Razncain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Razncain)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2013, 5:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-and-mind/666654/200 "2013-08-30T17:46:12Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > And what did you almost die of the night of your totally non-typical “OBE”? I was wondering myself. :dubious: [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-and-mind/666654.md?page=9) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/god-and-mind/666654.md?page=11)